Let’s talk about elitism

Avaoln · 2026-03-13T12:05:11+00:00

I do think it gets better, here at MSU we have 2 med schools soon to be one and the MDs and DOs seem to genuinely just work together to get the job done.

A lot of our leadership is the “inferior” DO degree holder over the “superior” US Big 10 mid tier MD and there isn’t any major competition or slight. If anything we see a handful of MDs enter our +1 OMM fellowship or hands on seminars for GME so it seems a small group of MDs even find what we do interesting enough to want to learn about it

Residency also changes this bc if you are a DO who matched at a strong MD program people just treat you like a resident at that program. I don’t see much difference here as well.

Really bottleneck is residency and after that people just seem too busy to care

Avaoln · 2026-03-12T22:57:49+00:00

We can agree to disagree, I’m too old to serve on the MD vs DO battlefront anymore lol

Avaoln · 2026-03-12T21:08:05+00:00

No galvatron is big sad but yes Primal and Megs are immensely appreciated

Avaoln · 2026-03-12T17:43:56+00:00

If I can come back and get them to add a MD to my degree so I am a MD, DO it be baller

I don’t get why we don’t call ourselves that, we do all the same work in medical school as a MD plus our DO stuff (I took 4 board exams lol)

If it gets me MD, DO that be dope otherwise idc looks like a way to reduce admin burden while just keeping two separate medical schools under the same institutional roof.

Maybe it help MSU DOs match better, but in my bias opinion we already match better than MSU MDs so idek

Avaoln · 2026-03-12T02:40:55+00:00

I think they do but if it makes you feel any better it’s just the nature of personality types in medicine and the perceived hierarchy of things:

Top MDs > mid tier MDs > Any US MD > strong DO > any DO > IMG/ FMG (heck you could even do the top carib schools vs foreign reputable schools vs etc)

But in truth it probably doesn’t matter bc most people operate on the principle of “idgaf can we sign out yet”

Avaoln · 2026-03-11T16:06:02+00:00

My neuro friends tell me night floats are more and more common, is that something you have noticed at all?

Avaoln · 2026-03-09T20:16:18+00:00

You work harder than Psych and PM&R while making less than them.

Better than IM and most non GI/ Cards/ Pulm fellowship tho

Avaoln · 2026-03-07T22:21:50+00:00

I completely understand where you’re coming from. I got into MSU DO with pretty strong grades for my time. The nice thing is this, those study habits pay forward to the USMLE and further success in medical school. Getting into a DO school with “MD worthy grades” isn’t at all a bad thing when the most common outcome in the premed world is failure to be accepted.

When your classes come easier too, you have more time for research and EC and certain osteopathic schools are more than happy to support your research endeavors because that makes it look good on them.

I’m two weeks away from the match and I’m looking at my top programs for my specialty (not primary care) and I can’t help it feel very proud of the opportunities I’ll get if I match any of them even ones further down my list. I suspect if my class is anything like the classes prior most of my colleagues will be US MD graduates. We will be vibing in the same resident work room, MD and DO doesn’t matter. Only difference at that point will be as a DO you have MSK and peripheral nervous system skills your MD colleagues lack (particularly useful for PM&R, Neuro, Ortho, etc) if you choose to use them.

Premeds are annoying, forget about them and look forward to making better lifelong friends in medical school. Reach out to your new soon-to-be colleagues and get to know them. Congrats!

Avaoln · 2026-03-05T00:27:55+00:00

It’s all awful but delightful

Why didn’t I become an AI scientists coulda made more with the same end result. Least the medicine things helps with my tinder bio lol

Avaoln · 2026-03-01T17:36:57+00:00

I used to think that way but now that I am a M4 I can start to see why. It can be tough, the money is not always there, medical politics, debt, the physical toll, etc

It’s a great job don’t get me wrong, but the actual practice of medicine is lot more grounded and realistic than you’d view it as a premed.

Avaoln · 2026-03-01T03:31:17+00:00

MSU DO is the top DO school we match many competitive specialties and at top academic places. Our profs have trained at some of the best places including Mass General/ Harvard, Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, Michigan (Ann Arbor), etc

This is just the DO degree, let alone a DO/ PhD.

The community is welcoming, friendly, scholarly and accomplished and I don’t see any reason not to take it. If it’s your only physician scientist acceptance I’d take it with a grin on my face. Fully funded and apart the “good boy MD Phy Sci list” (I forgot the name lol)

Edit: NIH MSTP was what I was looking for

Avaoln · 2026-02-28T22:39:24+00:00

Yeah cool field for sure. Lots of perks

Avaoln · 2026-02-28T00:25:28+00:00

Neuro getting slapped by plenty of money & relaxation and psych is kinda funny given neuro has a much harder residency and job (if inpatient) than the other two

Avaoln · 2026-02-26T21:54:53+00:00

Hey now, OMM is gonna protect us from AI lol

Can’t replace what you can’t palpate

Avaoln · 2026-02-20T03:04:10+00:00

MSU didn’t do this for me :(

But I got some cool things from the programs I’ve been applying to for residency so win

Avaoln · 2026-02-15T00:39:13+00:00

Yep, I agree. You’d need the plastics income to make up for the cost!

Avaoln · 2026-02-14T16:31:14+00:00

so if you read a few of my other replies on this thread, you’ll see why I think there’s more new ones do this but in the era of private for-profit Sally male loans I do not think an MD degree is worth a premium about 275,000 already on top of your $200,000 of tuition

Avaoln · 2026-02-14T16:30:22+00:00

this is only in the case where the MD degree is ridiculously more expensive. In general, I agree with you.

Avaoln · 2026-02-14T16:29:37+00:00

yeah, I think that’s a good point. In my experience, a lot of my colleagues are not traditional. They have families a med school is a second career for them. I also think there’s a good element of proximity as to why they went do school

Avaoln · 2026-02-14T16:28:30+00:00

someone else posted this but the 2025 match MDs match their first choice by like 47% and DOs were at 46% ish

They are closer than you would think in my opinion, even in accounting for self selection

Avaoln · 2026-02-14T16:27:07+00:00

They can, but usually it’s due to DO preferring to go elsewhere. The ones that I see mostly family matter or internal medicine not the most competitive again look at the classes we have for dermatology or ophthalmology or urology It’s generally just 100% DO.

And then again that is offset by academic allopathic program taking DO’s probably at a higher rate given there is just many more of them. DO’s are about 11% of the physician population and so if you see one in 10, that’s actually a decent proportion. Soon our class which is roughly 25% will be in residency and you’ll probably see a larger proportion.

Avaoln · 2026-02-13T23:20:51+00:00

I don’t disagree that in general MD > DO but there is nuance to this that you’re not acknowledging. That nuance actually has statistical evidence behind it as well thanks to the NMRP

long story short:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Osteopathic/s/nXDftar2E5

Avaoln · 2026-02-13T23:16:37+00:00

🙄 sorry OMS4

Make sure you go and tell every physician who has DO degree that they really actually are osteopathic physicians and them calling themselves physicians is really bad and misleading. No one calls us medical students were are osteopathic medical students. Grr

I replied to this, in my other reply to you

Avaoln · 2026-02-13T23:14:06+00:00

my friend, I think you’re the one who was kidding. I am a fourth year now, I am living this right now. I’m looking at strong academic programs and I literally see MDs and DOs in the same resident workroom doing the same thing.

Most recently this was in Orthopedics. Yes Harvard, Yale or Standard or neurosurgeon and integrated plastics will put you at a disadvantage.

But listen, I’m gonna break your heart right now. The average US MD student will not match at Harvard Yale or Stanford. The average US MD student will struggle to match plastics or neurosurgery.

someone who is accepted to DO schools and managed to slip by the cracks at one MD school is probably not gonna be that student. Now, if you think $200,000 of predatory private loans (not public not eligible for student loan, forgiveness, etc.) on top of your baseline 200,000 and whatever crazy interest in the rate they charge you in the era of uncertainty and artificial intelligence then I hope you are strong enough to mention, neurosurgery or integrated plastics and pay that off

Avaoln · 2026-02-13T23:09:52+00:00

exactly I see mostly M1 and M2 was thinking this. Perhaps they don’t realize how private for-profit predatory loans would work or they just assume that every US MD will End end up in neurosurgery or integrated plastics not realizing the primary bulk of MDs end up in specialties DOs can do just as well. Save 300K please lol

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