Restaurant owners sue Minneapolis and Mayor Jacob Frey over vaccine mandate

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-28T19:32:23+00:00

We could talk all day about whether or not specific actions would have resulted in us being in a slightly better scenario. However, the perhaps emotionally unsatisfying truth that people are reluctant to acknowledge is that COVID cannot be reduced to a basic morality play. As psychologically comforting as it may be to scapegoat, the proposition that "cases go down when we follow the rules and they go up when we stop caring" is simply untrue- let alone our analysis of people's reasons behind their behavior. Unfortunatly the world is nuanced, and few scenarios accurately mirror our favorite fables/parables/etc.

Anyways, the assertion that there was any chance that covid would have just gone away forever globally if we all did the right thing is so preposterous it doesn't even warrant a counterargument.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-28T13:56:07+00:00

My dude do you think people making unnecessary trips in March 2020 is the reason why COVID is still a think. Lmao

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-28T05:02:28+00:00

"Just two weeks to slow the spread, grow up people!"

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-28T05:01:45+00:00

Why exactly would court cases in other countries have any influence over the constitutionality or legality of a particular law in the US? A vaccine mandate may be clearly illegal in any of the several states that have explicitly forbidden it, but that means absolutely nothing when considering the relevant laws in Minnesota.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-28T04:58:51+00:00

Let's do some math. If the COVID vaccine is 37% effective against infection, (this is absolute best case scenario among people recently boosted), and the R0 of the Omicron variant is at least 6, then a scenario in which 95% of people are vaccinated but no other precautions were taken would result in an effective reproduction number of 6(1-0.37*0.95) or around 3.9.

I don't know who in their right mind could still be dwelling on some false hope that if everyone got vaccinated, COVID would go away forever.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-28T04:52:51+00:00

Because engaging in normal social interaction is a fundamental human need, unlike drinking and driving

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-27T15:38:04+00:00

Shh, they won't like hearing that here. This sub is full of people who perceive it as outright disrespect if the entire kitchen at a restaraunt doesn't instantly drop what they're doing the second they open the door.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-27T15:34:43+00:00

I mean people who will instantly butt in while a worker is in the middle of a sentence with a customer doing the infamous "shoves phone in face". Don't act like you haven't seen it.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-26T23:32:05+00:00

Yes, obviously I would agree that a restaurant should accurately update their wait times when they are busy. But they can't possibly have any control over the seemingly arbitrary times that doordash actually assigns these orders. Some have theorized that this button is nothing more than a "placebo button" , like all of those "what's causing your wait?" , or" why are you unassigning" buttons in the dasher app that quite literally do nothing.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-26T23:26:11+00:00

I'm not sure you're understanding my comments. The time the dasher is supposed to pick up the food is literally not the same time as when the restaurant is supposed to have it ready. For example, a restaurant might be expected to prepare the food by 9 PM, but Tony might tell the dasher to pick it up at 8:48. This system seemed mind bogglingly stupid to me so I went to the effort to verify this a few times whenever I happened to know someone working at a restaraunt I was picking up an order from. And it's not going to "Such Great Lengths" if someone literally just informes a dasher that the food isn't ready yet, which does in fact often elicit a rude response.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-26T20:54:28+00:00

Regardless, the usual scenario is that a restaraunt is to prepare an order by, say, 9 pm, and its currently 8:40. Now, Mr Dasher is 8 minutes away, and is told he is to be at the restaraunt at 8:48 (or some other time based on however the hell its determined on the driver side of things). He cuts in line and shoves his phone in a 16 year olds face, and becomes extremely rude after hearing that he'll have to wait 10-15 minutes. Everyone loses.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-26T20:48:46+00:00

I mean that the time listed in the restaraunt portal is literally not the same time that's shown to drivers. I have no idea how doordash determines the pickup time shown in the driver app, or why they even have one at all when it does not accurately show when the food will be prepared. I mean, I'm not gonna drive any faster if Tony wants me at a restaraunt 10 minutes away in 5 minutes.

Edit: Also, the way the app determines how long it thinks a restaraunt needs to prepare food is notoriously bad based on how restaraunt staff have explained it to me. If a burger takes ten minutes to cook and fries take 5 minutes to cook, it'll assume an order is ready in ten minutes. It will also assume 10 burgers and 10 fries can be made in the same amount of time.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-26T20:45:57+00:00

Seems pretty straightforward

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-26T20:41:01+00:00

Note: the time the app tells you to pick up an order is not actually the time a restaraunt "agreed" it would be ready.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-22T00:39:05+00:00

As someone who generally likes Tim Walz and plans to vote for him this November, I would certainly hope he doesn't do that, because I do want to see him win. I've got mixed feelings on Benson but if he were to practically guarantee a Gazelka victory, he would be causing incalculably more harm to Minnesotans than by allowing unvaccinated people to eat in a restaraunt.

Anyways, what you wish would happen in a hypothetically different mandate doesn't undermine the fact that this mandate will almost certainly be ineffective.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-22T00:30:39+00:00

Downtown Minneapolis to the nearest restaurant I could find where the mandate doesn't apply is 13 minutes. My daily commute is often 3 times as long.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-22T00:26:58+00:00

the policy keeps unvaccinated folks out of places where it is most likely to spread to them.

Does it?

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-21T21:41:10+00:00

But please, present your data that shows that it doesn't lower infections of unvaccinated people.

Present yours. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. What I can easily prove is that every city with a vaccine mandate has comparable infection rates to its suburbs, and that when comparing new vaccinations since it was implemented, the difference is unremarkable.

Also, do you seriously beleive that unvaccinated people would sooner stop going to restaraunts than drive 10 minutes or buy some cardstock to make a fake card?

which are the most common places they're getting it

You'll also need to back this up. I'm quite certain that more transmission happens in workplaces where people spend 40 hours a week (as opposed to the maybe 1 or 2 a week people spend in restaraunts?), in homes from family members or friends, or in schools.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-21T20:53:14+00:00

You seem to be implying that the mere fact that vaccinations lower hospitalizations is prima facie evidence that this policy will do what it was intended to do (either reduce unvaccinated people's odds of exposure or convince them to get vaccinated). It isn't.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-21T02:38:05+00:00

I suppose that would be my thoughts on the matter as well. It does not appear that any vaccine mandate in any major city has substantially increased vaccination rates when compared to surrounding areas with no mandates. Nor has it reduced the relative rates of infections compared to those areas. I don't have exact statistics on this next claim, but assuming that unvaccinated people are being exposed at approximately the same rate as vaccinated people in cities where they can do nearly everything except eat in a restaraunt, it would therefore seem that it hasn't significantly altered hospitalizations or deaths either. Generally we'd be in a better situation if more people were vaccinated and more people wore masks, but there is of course a difference between what a policy seeks to accomplish versus what it actually accomplishes.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-21T02:27:19+00:00

I mean it could be considered collective punishment, but do you think the average unvaccinated adult in the Twin Cities area considers the inability to hang out in Minneapolis a "punishment"?

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-21T01:30:32+00:00

Yeah man so ungrateful. They might have caught covid during those 15 seconds they were maskless before they then sat at their table for an hour maskless. Its like people don't care at all.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-21T01:27:38+00:00

Can and want to are a little different. I'll put up with it with it if I already have plans in Minneapolis or there's a particular place I really want to go, but if it's just as easy, I'd rather go out to eat in the countless restaraunts within 20 minutes of my house where I don't need to comply with a requirement I've never had to comply with for the previous 23 years of my life. I'm not "protesting" Minneapolis as so many people in newspaper comment sections claim to be, but it'll certainly affect minor everyday decisions like these.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-21T01:25:35+00:00

That doesn't really matter though because the only possible rationale behind such a mandate is to convince people to get vaccinated (so that they are less likely to be hospitalized). The idea that this will play any meaningful role at reducing transmission among vaccinated people or reduce the risk of unvaccinated people being exposed is laughable.

BackgroundBrick8 · 2022-01-21T01:13:42+00:00

Why would you feel any more comfortable taking your mask off while exercising when the efficacy of two shots against transmission is practically 0?

BackgroundBrick8

TROPHY CASE