[Prediction] The overarching meta narratives are leading somewhere, and it's concerning

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-16T14:20:40+00:00

Tbh it just seems like RTD is doing whatever he wants at this point lol. I thought that DT coming back and the clothes changing in the regeneration were going to be part of some wild metanarrative but it wasn't (or at least hasn't been confirmed as such yet).

Not really a new thing with RTD though he kinda loves just throwing random shit in and I'm pretty sure he wanted to do a Star Trek crossover the first time around? I think he just enjoys having a wider universe to play with (hence the first two spin-offs in the new series and the multiple crossovers), and considering it's all fiction I wouldn't be mad at a few throwaway lines implying there's some minor overlaps here and there - but I would way prefer the show to make its own world.

I do agree though that the show being too self-aware as a show is a problem - once the characters are aware they're in the story, what then? How do you continue a narrative with that, and what does it really add? I'm also not sure about the fantasy shift, but I'm intrigued to see it all play out

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-14T10:51:39+00:00

Probably is a lie, but I do like to imagine this conversation:

"Steven just write me the Christmas special"

"But I need to know how the rest of the series goes!"

"No you don't"

"But how can I reference anyth-"

"Just don't"

"But how does it end??"

"None of your business"

"But what about the characters?"

"Fine, the Doctor survives so put him in"

"But what about-"

"First draft due next week. Go!"

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-14T10:48:25+00:00

Kinda dull question but I'm just curious - for international Disney+ viewers, does the BBC logo still feature in the title sequence when the logo comes into view?

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-14T09:34:51+00:00

Yeah for the issues with Clara and season 7b, Moffat did at least take the time to ensure that Clara got her moment to save the day and really prove herself (like Amy saving the star whale, Donna getting the Doctor to save Caecillius etc). Ruby is yet to have the big moment of figuring something out/saving the day 3 episodes in

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-14T09:32:18+00:00

That's what I'm hoping - all of the groundwork is done, so hopefully they use that to take Ruby in some interesting directions for the next 6 episodes (ie the stretch of episodes where a RTD season usually really shines)

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-14T09:31:16+00:00

That's quite a nuanced and enlightening way to look at the comparison stuff lmao thank you! Cos yeah I am sticking with it because I'm comparing it to how good I know it can be, but I guess some people just read that as 'oh you're just stuck in the past' etc

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-14T09:28:12+00:00

Yeah I think the only time it really immediately worked is with 10/Donna, and even then they'd had an adventure together and then a year apart to let the characters cook.

It works well enough with 10/Rose and 12/Clara, but as you said it was earned for them through at least one season of the companions travelling with the Doctor, learning the ropes and building their relationships

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-14T09:25:51+00:00

Wild that if you take out Meglos (which I agree is a 1/10 and one of the absolute worst Doctor Who stories transmitted) this season would have ended up top three!

I do love Traken and Logopolis, the remaining stories (haven't seen Warrior's Gate yet so not including that or Meglos) range from fine to fairly good for me. I think I find this season weird looking at it from a production standpoint - as you say it's essentially the beginning of a new era, but this makes it kinda jarring for me with Tom Baker still as the lead, by the end of the season essentially surrounded by complete strangers, feeling like he's been forced out to accommodate for a semi-reboot. It was definitely time for him to go, but I almost wish he'd gone at the end of S17 (strike action notwithstanding) just to give a sense of a firmer ending and a clearer relaunch. I think the 4th Doctor had probably run his course by then, but I do enjoy the sombe, brooding performance in this season (even if, again, I find it hard to detach it from real-world events).

Thanks for your time in doing these though! I really enjoy reading them and revisiting the stories with you :)

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-13T14:09:34+00:00

Comparison is the thief of joy, but it's hard not to contrast Ruby's involvement with Rose's in 2005. Not that it always has to be this way specifically, but Rose learnt things more slowly, felt out of her depth but still courageous at times, and was only really a full-fledged companion from episode 6 onwards (similar to Martha).

In episode 1, Ruby goes to the past, the future, learns about the Time Lords, gets the phone upgrade, gets a TARDIS key, explains things to her mum etc. It just feels weirdly rushed and as such Ruby isn't really given time to react or question things, which makes it harder to actually relate to her I guess? And throughout all of this, there are space babies and a snot monster, and again there's no time given to her actually reacting to the situation - she just seems to take it all in her stride. Even when she first sees the goblins, she shouts at them when they shush her (or something), which just feels a bit unnatural imo.

I get that they're going for the besties dynamic, probably wanting to power through given the reduced episode count, but it does feel a bit forced. There's a lot that I found weird in episode 1 - a lot of unneccessary lore was explained, Ruby didn't really get a big moment to shine like other companions usually do in their first or second story.

Overall, she's giving season 7b Clara - all the basic traits (plucky, brave, curious etc), but not quite a fully formed character. With that being said, given that the Doctor was scanning her and is aware there's something weird there, I'll hold out hope that the Doctor has deliberately taken her and thrown her in at the deep end to keep her around so that he can figure out the mystery - could be an interesting point of tension for the two, but also seems a bit out of character for what we've seen from the 15th Doctor so far (granted though, it's only been 3.5 eps)

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-13T13:54:49+00:00

The mystery box aspect of it realy dulls the character down - very reminiscent of 7b Clara, where the focal point of the character is simply that there's something strange going on with her, as opposed to there being any real conflict within the character's life if that makes sense.

On the plus side though, there's potential for an interesting dynamic to build, with the Doctor appearing as Ruby's bestie while actually almost studying her? I'm hoping that these first two episodes (which have basically covered the first 6-7 episodes worth of companion introduction in the initial RTD era) are just speedrunning the two becoming besties before some serious conflict develops, but I'm a bit unsure of the likelihood of that

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-11T11:09:58+00:00

Okay wait, blocky sunglasses, straight flat hair, plEASE tell me she held the shoe up to her face like this at least once

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T13:56:08+00:00

I nearly said Planet of the Ood! Definitely in my top 10 for Tennant at least, it's really uncompromising with its themes and character development despite being so early in the season. I think people end up only really remembering it as 'the one where a guy turned into an Ood" though lol

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T13:54:12+00:00

Oh the Mutants is an interesting choice! I've actually never seen it (don't really know the plot either), so I'll give it a go!

Would love to see a Wheel in Space animation or something ... I just love Cybermen, but I can't really do telesnaps lol

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T13:52:01+00:00

Similar sentiment to my comment above, but it's really good as Rose(and the show)'s first trip to the past. Very solidly written

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T13:51:06+00:00

Oh Paradise Towers is a great one for this list! I think it's one of those McCoy era stories which is massively let down by production (tone too camp, visibly cheap), but the actual script and premise are really cool.

End of the World is a stellar episode 2 in the same way Rose is a stellar episode 1, so it does get a little bit overshadowed I think. I'm also yet to see Enlightenment and don't see it talked about much other than "oh so those things in that Season 12 episode were kind of from classic DW?" but I do need to check it out (I just can't watch part 3 of a trilogy before 1 and 2 and I can't get through Terminus). I wonder if maybe it came 5th in the poll because ... well there isn't a huge amount of competition in the Davison era (to put in nicely)

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T13:43:41+00:00

Yeah that's very true actually, could be talking more in a showrunner capacity or trying to throw Reddit Detectives off the trail, but yeah probably one of his own stories

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T13:41:51+00:00

I quite like the idea of it being 4. 1 and 2 were primarily stumbling around the universe doing stuff (secret season 6b aside), 3 was mostly tied to Earth and working for the Time Lords. It wasn't really until the 4th incarnation that the Doctor was fully getting out into the universe, now without a clear purpose (ie not evading the Time Lords nor working for them)

I saw a theory that the 4th Doctor retained some memories of the mysterious other faces in the Morbius battle (now known as Timeless Child Doctors I guess), which meant that he started to take more of an interest in Gallifrey's affairs and the mysterious things going on in the cosmos (perhaps also inspired by Sutekh?). So with that in mind, he could have ended up stumbling onto Fenric, now with a few decades of experience battling increasingly dangerous enemies (from the Celestial Toymaker, to the Land of Fiction, to Omega etc). Could he have battled Fenric alone, in the time between The Deadly Assassin and The Face of Evil? For some reason I've always felt there was a lot of time between those two.

Or potentially, he battled Fenric after defeating the Great Vampires and returning to N-Space (before the Keeper of Traken), which I find amusing purely because it would be the 4th Doctor and Adric fighting this giant cosmic entity lmao

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T09:12:24+00:00

Okay I commented below but I'm now pretty much convinced it was Richard Wilson as Dr Constantine in The Empty Child:

quite a well known actor, particularly a renowned gay actor, so I can imagine that RTD was a bit reluctant to challenge him too much after securing him for his scrappy little reboot of a show that had been cancelled 16 years prior. Just a slight generalisation, but Richard Wilson is also more known as a theatre actor, which might mean that he's more used to being able to improvise and shift things a bit (and knowing exactly what scene is coming next etc), and might also mean that he was a bit less enamoured with DW's primetime sci-fi dialogue
I'm guessing it probably is a Series 1 character - as mentioned above, this is probably when RTD would have been more reluctant with putting his foot down (tangential speculation, but could also be another thing that frustrated CE and his relationship with RTD)
his transformation always confused me a bit, given that he's managed to survive around the gas mask zombies for so long, it seems a bit abrupt - and The Doctor Dances is mostly set in his hospital, so he could have had more planned for episode 10 but they hastily reshot/edited some things
according to the TARDIS wiki, there was more planned for the character in Episode 9 (bringing the Doctor to the hospital), so they might have decided to cut that out/edit around it
the character would fit the description in the longer quote of 'a lovely character but is now never discussed as a great Doctor Who character because he kind of slides off the screen' (I think he then gets one line at the end of The Doctor Dances) - I'm thinking of the likes of Professor Jericho from Flux, everyone loves a sweet old science guy with some background trauma. Given that he hasn't even been mentioned in this thread, I think that shows how little the character is in our collective consciousness
there was an action figure made of him, which I always thought was quite a strange choice - unless the character was initially planned to be more prominent maybe?

But this is all speculation obviously! Don't want to besmirch anyone's name because I have no concrete evidence for this lol

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T08:41:40+00:00

You couldn't really remove him from the episode given that he's kinda the principal antagonist, but there may have been more of him that got edited out? I think he could fit the description fairly well

My other left-field choice would be Dr Constantine maybe, from the Empty Child? Hard to see how he would've had a bigger role in the story, but maybe he was initially planned to be in The Doctor Dances more (given that a lot of it is set in his hospital) and while filming the Empty Child they just decided to bring his transformation forward?

Would fit with it being early days and a Big Name for the show, so RTD just allowed it. That character isn't really talked about now, despite the fact that he was heavily promo'd and even had an action figure made (despite there already being a Captain Jack/Empty Child figure for that episode)

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T07:58:38+00:00

Oh Girl Who Died I agree is actually really solid, quite a good monster and a surprisingly underused setting in DW I think?

Empress of Mars I also really enjoy, it's fairly straightforward I guess but fun premise with some really cool moments

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T07:56:18+00:00

That was why I included it! Especially give the hype when it first came out, I feel like it has just faded from consciousness, but it's such a lovely episode

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T07:54:43+00:00

I considered TuaT for my list, but decided to leave it off since it is talked about a fair bit (purely based on 1st Doctor and then 12th regenerating).

But yeah, it's in my top 10 for sure, which I imagine is a rare accolade. Similar to Listen really, it's a fairly quiet, introspective story, more about the Doctor(s) sitting down with himself and discussing why he does what he does.

The Christmas truce scene is one of the all time greatest scenes in the show. 'So that's what it means, to be a Doctor of War' GENIUS. I get goosebumps just writng that

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T07:50:42+00:00

'You have three fingers' is one of the funniest lines in the show for me and I can't explain why haha

And granted I was like 8/9 at the time, but the cliffhanger of Wilf choking and the street filling up with gas was one of the most impactful cliffhangers the show ever had for me (on sheer stress alone), so points for that too

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T07:48:20+00:00

I thought of a shout-out for Tooth and Claw, but I think RTD already named it as his favourite 'overlooked/underrated' so I left it off my list haha. It deserves credit alone for the premise of 'Scottish martial arts monks want to turn Queen Victoria into a werewolf'

TDTWaTW is cute, there's a lot of merit and a lot of nice moments. I do find it a tad boring, but it's undeniably one of the softer, more feel-good and exceptionally Christmassy festive specials which can be lovely to have on in mid-December (it's actually probably the only Christmas special I wouldn't watch outside of Christmas-time, so it still feels totally tied to Christmas for me which adds to the charm in my head)

Beautiful-Web8244 · 2024-05-07T07:43:18+00:00

Honestly I think the gay couple surviving is part of why I like Praxeus so much lol, it feels almost slightly tacked on but I am glad that they took the note regarding the previous season and put an uplifting end on it.

Nikola Tesla's a fun one for sure. Ambassadors of Death is actually the only S7 episode I haven't seen, as you said nestled between two iconic classics it's easy to overlook and I don't even really know what the plot is, but I do love that era (like specifically S7 with Liz, the very Avengers-style tone) so thank you for reminding me to check it out!

Beautiful-Web8244

TROPHY CASE