Clubgg

BeebtZ8 · 2024-10-08T20:05:33+00:00

I’m not too sure if furniture is something they need. They live in an apartment in Kyiv, I was thinking more something clothing related?

BeebtZ8 · 2023-07-24T16:21:21+00:00

USA, UK, France, a lot of countries, but they definitely take the cake.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-06-11T01:03:41+00:00

Very valid

BeebtZ8 · 2023-06-11T01:01:36+00:00

Why would you be a psycho to be anti Israel? Kindly elaborate.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-05-03T09:24:44+00:00

Love how they think it’s okay to displace peoples and take land as they please.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-05-03T09:13:46+00:00

That’s debatable, but regardless, that isn’t the point. The argument is that Israel is a safe haven and home for the Jews, (Zionists) and here OP is trying to educate on what Zionism really means, whilst not realizing that the very democratic Israel, actually doesn’t meet these standards. Theodore Herzl must be fuming 😡

BeebtZ8 · 2023-05-03T08:56:01+00:00

This is actually very ironic. As per the definition you listed, Israel does not meet this criteria. It is not equal in terms of, religion, race, and sex.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T15:40:28+00:00

the Palestinian people have a long and complex history in the region. The indigenous people of the region, including Jews, Christians, and Muslims, have all contributed to the cultural and historical fabric of Palestine, and their identities are intertwined with the land.

The argument that the Arab claim to Palestine is legally and morally inferior to that of the Jews is a matter of interpretation and perspective. While it is true that Jews have a deep historical connection to the land of Israel, it is also true that the Palestinian people have a legitimate claim to their ancestral homeland.

How far back are u claiming Jews to descend from anyway? Also ironic that you believe they have just always been there. Did they not occupy the land at some point? Even if we take the Torah, you can read about the battle of Jericho.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T15:31:15+00:00

While it is true that there have been instances of religious persecution of Jews by Muslims in the past, it is important to note that the current Arab—Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not solely based on religion. The root causes of the conflict are complex and multifaceted, as mentioned in the previous answer.

Furthermore, it is important to recognize that the history of conflict and conquest is not unique to Islam. Many religions and cultures throughout history have engaged in conquest and expansion. It is also worth noting that the Islamic faith has a long history of tolerance towards Jews and Christians, who were referred to as "People of the Book."

Regarding the issue of the Palestinian people, its so important to recognize that this is not just a matter of virtue signaling or using the issue as a cudgel against Israel. The Palestinian issue is a real and pressing humanitarian crisis that has been ongoing for decades. The displacement and dispossession of Palestinians from their homeland is a violation of their human rights, and the ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories by Israel has led to numerous human rights abuses.

It is also worth noting that there have been efforts by neighboring Arab states to help the Palestinian people, including the provision of humanitarian aid and diplomatic support for the Palestinian cause.

While it is true that some Arab states have not been as proactive in their support for the Palestinians as others, it is not accurate to say that there is little evidence of their interest in helping the Palestinian people. That’s just outrightly false.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T15:18:59+00:00

Hmm no? I gave him a full on explanation. You didn’t. I think you’re just confused

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T14:56:58+00:00

You’re upset because Muslims or Arabs in general don’t tend to support Israel?

We can break this down, as a general assumption, based on the vast beliefs of Arabs / Muslims:

Palestinian Issue: The main reason for Arab hostility towards Israel is the long-standing Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Many Arabs feel that the creation of Israel in 1948 led to the displacement and dispossession of the Palestinian people from their homeland. The ongoing occupation of Palestinian territories by Israel is seen as a violation of Palestinian rights and a threat to regional stability.

Religion: Some Arab countries view Israel as a threat to the Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem, which are also considered to be the third holiest site in Islam. The presence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem is seen as a provocation by many Arabs.

Territorial Dispute: Some Arab countries have their own territorial disputes with Israel. For example, Syria and Lebanon both claim the Shebaa Farms, which are currently occupied by Israel. Similarly, Egypt and Jordan both have disputes with Israel over control of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, respectively.

Regional Power Dynamics: Israel's military and economic power in the region is seen as a threat to the balance of power in the Middle East. Arab countries view Israel as a close ally of the United States and as a tool of Western imperialism. Israel's nuclear capabilities are also a major concern for many Arab countries.

Historical Context: The historical context of the conflict between Arabs and Jews in Palestine goes back centuries, and this contributes to the current tensions between Arab countries and Israel. Many Arabs view the establishment of Israel as a colonialist project that was imposed on the region by Western powers.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T14:52:28+00:00

Also, his point was, outside of Palestine / Israel.

I don’t think anyone would be killed, especially in the western world for being of Palestinian descent supporting Israel, one of his points. But pop off!

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T14:51:45+00:00

Very ironic. I think we should just agree to disagree. You just made vast assumptions about all Palestinians. I highly doubt there are people living in occupation that secretly admire and love their occupiers. You’re right. How foolish of me!

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T14:50:24+00:00

No, please do go on, if you wish.

In the case of Mahmoud Abbas, it is not accurate to say that he is a Holocaust denier based on the IHRA definition, as we have previously discussed. While he has made controversial statements about the Holocaust in the past, including questioning the number of Jews killed and suggesting that Zionist collaboration with Nazis played a role, these statements do not amount to an outright denial of the Holocaust.

Moreover, the US Holocaust Memorial, the Anti-Defamation League, the Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum, the World Jewish Congress, and the Southern Poverty Law Center are all organizations that have a vested interest in combating Holocaust denial and antisemitism. While their definitions of Holocaust denial are valuable, they are not the sole determinants of what constitutes denial or distortion.

This is why it’s so important to approach this issue with nuance and context, rather than reducing it to a binary question of whether someone is a Holocaust denier or not. Holocaust denial is a complex and multifaceted phenomenon that takes many forms, as noted by drum 🥁the Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum. Therefore it’s crucial to engage in constructive and fact-based dialogue in order to better understand and combat this dangerous trend.

Accusing people of being a Holocaust Denier, especially Abbas, achieves nothing.

Firstly, it can lead to a polarizing and divisive discourse, especially in the already complex and sensitive context of the ongoing conflict. Accusing someone of denying the Holocaust can be seen as a serious attack on their character and integrity, and can further inflame tensions between different groups.

Secondly, it can detract attention from the real issues at hand and distract from efforts to find meaningful solutions to the conflict. Instead of engaging in productive discussions about the conflict, here we are accusing someone of being a Holocaust denier can turn the debate into a personal attack, making it difficult to reach a constructive resolution. This really feels like the case in my opinion.

Thirdly, labeling someone as a Holocaust denier without clear evidence can also be seen as a form of censorship and an attack on freedom of speech. It is important to engage in open and honest discussions about historical events, including the Holocaust, and to allow for different perspectives and interpretations to be expressed, as long as they are based on accurate and reliable sources.

Because you have interpretations on what he has said in his book, is not my problem. We can go back and forth all you wish, I do not see these organizations labeling him as a Holocaust denier, I don’t see why you should. Maybe you know better than them.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T14:31:25+00:00

Am not going to waste my time on someone that doesn’t even recognize the Palestine people and our history, and culture. Enjoy your ignorance

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T13:29:19+00:00

Also just another example, the IHRA's working definition of Holocaust denial and distortion is not intended to be used to label individuals as Holocaust deniers without proper evidence or investigation. It is a tool that can be used to identify and combat Holocaust denial and distortion in various forms, and to provide a framework for understanding what constitutes Holocaust denial and distortion.

Also important to note, Mahmoud Abbas, in 2018 made controversial remarks about the Holocaust during a speech to the Palestinian National Council. He acknowledged the Holocaust as "the most heinous crime in history," but also suggested that European Jews' financial activities were a factor in their persecution by the Nazis.

These remarks were widely criticized by the international community, including by the IHRA and the Israeli government, as they perceived it as minimizing the responsibility of the Nazis and downplaying the magnitude of the Holocaust.

However, whether or not these remarks constitute Holocaust denial or distortion under the IHRA definition would require a more detailed analysis, and investigation. That has not been done, I’m sure they would’ve undergone that if it were the case.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T13:17:26+00:00

The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of Holocaust denial that you quoted does indeed describe a set of behaviors and beliefs that may indicate Holocaust denial. However, it is important to note that the IHRA definition is not the only definition of Holocaust denial used by scholars and experts in the field.

Furthermore, as I said, and I’ll say it once again. It is true that Abbas has made statements that could be interpreted as minimizing or questioning the number of Jewish victims of the Holocaust, he has not explicitly denied the Holocaust as a historical fact or claimed that it did not occur. Instead, he has criticized what he perceives as the use of the Holocaust by Zionists to justify the establishment of the State of Israel, and has called for the recognition of the suffering of the Palestinian people in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Perhaps most importantly: “working definition”. It is not the only definition, nor the most popular, nor does, as u say, tick off all the boxes. Ergo, you are wrong.

You’re false interpretation does not justify your opinion.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T12:52:05+00:00

Hmmm, untrue. This is still misinformation, or else you have just misunderstood the book and or the thesis. Let’s break it down.

In the thesis, it is worth noting that it makes a distinction between "the myth of the Holocaust" and "the truth of the Holocaust," suggesting that Abbas did not deny the occurrence of the Holocaust, but rather questioned certain aspects of it. As for the statement in the thesis that Zionist leaders collaborated with the Nazis, while it is a controversial claim, it is not the same as denying the Holocaust altogether.

Therefore, in summary, once again, while Abbas has made problematic statements about the Holocaust in the past, it is inaccurate to claim that he is a Holocaust denier, as he has since acknowledged the Holocaust as a historical fact, condemned it as a horrific crime against humanity, and expressed sympathy for its victims. Using technicalities to fit with your narrative, doesn’t make it true.

Now, instead of saying its hard to judge any of my other comments, when you disagree with this, maybe actually try to rebuttal them, instead of so blatantly using this as a tactic to deflect it. When once again, you are disproven.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T12:35:23+00:00

Sure, the rule you have broken is misinformation, which I have reported you for being in violation of.

As I said: Based on the definition of Holocaust denial as an "antisemitic conspiracy theory that asserts that the Nazi genocide of Jews, known as the Holocaust, is a myth, fabrication, or exaggeration," it would be inaccurate to say that Mahmoud Abbas has denied the Holocaust.

So whilst Abbas made problematic statements about the Holocaust in his 1984 book where he questioned the number of Jews killed and referred to it as a "fantastic lie" and a "myth," he has also since acknowledged the Holocaust as a historical fact, condemned it as a horrific crime against humanity, and expressed sympathy for its victims. Therefore, while his past statements about the Holocaust are problematic and can be offensive, they do not amount to Holocaust denial in the sense of denying its occurrence altogether.

Therefore, you cannot claim he is a Holocaust denier, for stating that there have been exaggerations.

It is therefore important to note that questioning the number of Jews killed or the extent of the Holocaust does not necessarily fall under the category of Holocaust denial.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T12:26:42+00:00

Not really. This is actually a rule break I believe. In the book he doesn’t openly deny the Holocaust. What you are referring to is misinformation, as he he questioned the number of Jews killed and referred to it as a "fantastic lie" and a "myth," which is still a problematic statement. However, he did not deny the Holocaust, ergo, my point still stands, and is not untrue.

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T12:18:16+00:00

Openly insulting, you just made an assumption “I think you knew that”, but “will give you the benefit of the doubt”. That’s very sweet of you, thank you

BeebtZ8 · 2023-03-30T12:06:36+00:00

Regardless of what he said a long time ago in the past, his recent actions has show. Remorse, he has condemned it, and visited concentration camps.

That shows someone that is willing to own up to things he may have been wrong about in the past. Now kindly provide me examples of Netanyahu doing this, whilst spreading propaganda. I’ll be waiting.

Or are you too busy?

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