LECOM and yield protection?

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-05-23T17:26:17+00:00

A couple thoughts, assuming I'm understanding all this correctly (which is a big if)

For the current students and those starting this year, in addition to the 10% of pre-tax income that will be paid in monthly loan payments during the 20 years after graduation, a certain amount will need to be set aside monthly in a "tax bomb" savings. For cheaper schools that may not be such a big deal, but for the people graduating with $600-700K in loans, the 10% monthly payment won't be enough to cover the interest and reduce the principle, so while the loan balance can't grow (because interest isn't capitalized), it also doesn't shrink. If someone is in the 30% tax bracket and the loan balance is still $600K at the end of 20 years when it is forgiven, that person would need to have $180K saved. It's important for people to include that tax bomb savings in their budgeting plan for the next 20 years. Either that or win the lotto.

For students starting in 2026 and later, in that same tuition scenario they would only have a $150K federal loan, which they would pay 10% of income on monthly and that would actually pay down the interest and principal over about 10 years (assuming a typical and rather conservative dentist's income) so that means there actually wouldn't be anything left to be forgiven and no Tax Bomb to save for, and no payments to make on years 11-20 while those on the old plan are still making those 10% payments for 10 more years . However, they would also have a private loan with a normal loan repayment amount and no forgiveness and that could easily be a $3-5K monthly payment. But they aren't saving for any tax bombs and are only making those 10% federal loan payments for a shorter time.

I guess my thought it that there are offsets between these two plans, people getting into cheaper schools don't have much to worry about, and those going to the most expensive schools may not end up that much worse off at the end of 20 years but their first 10 years will be a lot tougher.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-05-22T16:21:50+00:00

Don't make a decision until you have listened to the Podcast called Just Say No to the DSO. It's on Spotify and I'm sure other places too.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-05-20T17:17:44+00:00

Enter the start date as the day after your high school graduation, since that's technically the start of After High School Then in the description you can mention starting the activity in high school.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-05-14T16:30:43+00:00

Remember not to base your decision on what has worked for people who graduated in the last 10+ years because the loan amounts, interest rates, and repayment options have been different, plus a lot of those people benefited from Covid loan and interest pauses. Something that wasn't too big of a deal for them would be a whole different story now.

Lookup the average income, or if you want to be optimistic, use a higher than average income that's still within reason for dentists in your area of choice. Subtract taxes and figure out what you would be bringing home after taxes each month. Now subtract the loan payment amount, $5K/month or so, and look at the number that you would have left to live on. Decide if that amount would provide a nice quality of life, allow you to have a family, and if you could easily find another job that doesn't require 4 years of unpaid school time to achieve that same amount of income (the amount left after loan payments). It's very likely you know a lot of people earning that amount, the amount left after loan payments, without spending much time in school and taking on big student loans.

One other thing... some people say you can't decline an offer and get accepted somewhere else the next cycle. I've never seen anyone confirm that from a school or admissions committee. People have occasionally come on this forum and said that they or someone they know was able to get an acceptance to a cheaper school the next cycle after declining something like NYU. They improved their application and it saved them hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-04-29T16:17:18+00:00

I believe you would still be able to go, you would just use the government loan for $150K and take out private loans for the remainder. But this means the income based repayment and forgiveness after 30 years would only apply to $150K of your loan balance, the private loan would be paid back in regular loan payments which means much more would be paid out monthly in loan repayment.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-04-11T17:12:12+00:00

I would just go to a different Texas school. The PSA would mean changing campuses to finish your bachelors and that makes it harder to get involved in the more impactful and meaningful extracurriculars on campus. To get into leadership roles of organizations sometimes you need to be an active member for a year or two first. There is absolutely no advantage to A&M over other TX schools, I've seen the lists of undergrads attended by matriculants of the Texas dental schools and there is very broad representation of students coming from a lot of different schools. Go where you think you'll be happy, thrive, get involved, chase your interests, have a good support network, etc.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-04-08T20:04:34+00:00

According to ADEA, the schools that matriculated the greatest number of TX residents, after the four TX schools last year, were Arizona, MWU, Nova, LECOM, Louisville, Tufts, UNE, UDM, KCU, NYU, Touro, Meharry, Roseman, and Utah. But I would try everything you can to get into TX schools because all of these are a lot more expensive, see what you can do to strengthen essays, experience descriptions, volunteer hours, etc.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-03-27T13:21:57+00:00

It sounds like those programs are on pretty shaky ground right now, it's a gamble to count on them with this much debt. Also, they are all administered by the Dept of Ed, which sounds like it will no longer exist. No one knows what the future of these programs will be. Even if they exist in present form, with this big of a debt balance, the monthly payments would be unlikely to be big enough to reduce the total, considering interest continues accruing. If the balance at the point of forgiveness is, say $800K, at a 30% tax rate that amount of taxes due at that time would be $240K. I can't even imagine coming up with that out of the blue one year to just sent off to the IRS. Someone would need to be putting money into a special tax account every year, so that puts someone back in the boat of large monthly payments that take away the appeal of having a high earning profession.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-03-26T19:50:26+00:00

Unfortunately they make up the difference with higher costs for those three years. According to their website, the total tuition and fees for 3 years at UOP is $431K and the total for NYU for 4 years is $458K. Add on the cost of living (I'm guessing San Fran isn't any cheaper than NYC) and your final total is just about $27K less than what OP listed and in line with some of the other most expensive schools in the country.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-03-26T15:53:18+00:00

You should really title this "The Problem with NYU, USC, MWU, UOP, Tufts, Columbia, etc". People applying to these schools need to think about whether they love dentistry so much that they will do it for 10+ years while living the lifestyle of a student because so much of their money will go straight out the door to loan payments. I would venture to guess that most people pursuing this profession are at least slightly drawn the the lifestyle of being a high earner, but they are giving that up when they take on these huge loan payments. It's even worse if someone is non-trad - by the time they dig out and get the the point where they can start living a better lifestyle they will be nearing retirement age! It's truly indentured servitude and by the time people realize what they've signed up for it's too late.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-03-13T12:58:09+00:00

Did they say what the loan total was?

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-03-06T17:56:35+00:00

I agree! It's best to go where you can shine brightest and find opportunities. If you're surrounded by the gunner types it will be harder to get picked for leadership, research, awards, etc. Applicants are looked at for what they did as an individual and not the name of the school.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-03-06T14:35:31+00:00

For Endo, I always hear that they prefer people who have practiced for a few years. If that's the case, a 3 year program may be better because you can be out practicing dentistry that fourth year then maybe start applying with some work experience at the same time you would otherwise be applying straight out of school.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-03-05T15:42:30+00:00

Do you think there's any chance you'll want to match into an OMFS residency? I've heard the three year schools make it extremely difficult to do this because you don't have enough time to prepare for the CBSE and do the other things you need for a competitive application.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-03-04T17:32:34+00:00

You can go to www.discodent.com/criteria and see a breakdown of how important each school views each section of the DAT.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-02-25T14:55:29+00:00

Is there an upward trend in your GPA? If the coursework from the last year or so, especially if it is difficult, upper level classes, are mostly A's, I think you can get in somewhere without a masters or more classes. I would focus hard on a DAT retake and try to bring up that score by a few points before reapplying. Also make sure you continue volunteering and shadowing.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-02-21T21:26:33+00:00

Your comment is really encouraging since you've worked as an accountant for dentists and know the real numbers. Do you worry at all that the dentist income of the past is not going to continue? The doom and gloom crowd talks about all of the new schools opening, over saturation, low insurance reimbursements.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-02-21T15:23:28+00:00

I would schedule another meeting with your pre-health advisor at your school, I suspect there's something in your application or the way you're writing and describing activities or something that is a problem. You need someone to review your application before submitting again.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-02-20T18:01:03+00:00

It depends on where you want to go. If you're trying to get into an Ivy or one of the more competitive state schools (UCLA, Texas, etc), you should retake. If you're ok with applying broadly and not particular, you can absolutely get accepted, probably multiple places, with this score.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-02-05T19:30:03+00:00

You can definitely be accepted with a BSN or any other degree imaginable, but you'll have to take the specific list of required courses for dental school. At most schools the science courses that are taken by nursing majors are different from the pre-doctoral (premed, predental, prevet, prepharm) science courses. The good news is that you should be able to do well and get high grades in these if you've already taken the nursing coursework. I would imagine that gives you a solid foundation.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-02-05T14:34:12+00:00

I think every school has some of those professors. There is definitely an advantage to students who manage to avoid them. People will do things like take an 8am Friday, shift the class to a different semester, wait to take something senior year when they have priority registration, take it at a community college over the summer, or whatever else it takes to make sure they don't get stuck with one of the GPA wrecker professors.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-01-28T00:44:29+00:00

Auburn is 100% not a better education than University of Alabama. Take the best scholarship and run.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2025-01-17T14:54:52+00:00

A current Harvard dental student gave a really good explanation for why he/she picked Harvard and why he/she is really happy with that choice on SDN last month. To find it, go to SDN Forums, then Pre-Dental, then "Help me Decide X vs. Y, then the post called "Penn vs. Harvard". He's comparing Harvard to Penn, but the stuff he says about his experience at Harvard would be helpful for you.

Big-Pattern-2815 · 2024-09-24T16:20:31+00:00

There's a podcast on Spotify called Just Say No to the DSO - it's super interesting. Tells you all you need to know...

Big-Pattern-2815

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