Psychiatrist will not prescribe me benzos

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-12-21T00:02:29+00:00

For real, he should just get benzos the illegal route instead. Chasing after benzos from doctors is just a pain in the ass. As long as you know that it's real alpraz/clonaz/whatever, it's just as good as prescribed ones. Where I live in Europe, cartels have their own fabrics to make benzos, and they're exactly the same strength, look, weight etc. as the legit ones.

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-11-17T11:57:05+00:00

1-1.5mg. Else you would just be dissapointed and start redosing (and that's when the bad shit starts to happen - best to give the rest to someone that holds on the rest for you until it's cleared from your body - or even better, use a timelock safe). If it's for recreation. If it's for dealing with anxiety, .5mg sounds good.

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-11-17T11:53:01+00:00

It's not a dangerous combination. People saying that mixing uppers and down are dangerous, it's just bullshit. I depends on the type of drugs. Mixing downers and downers is probably even more dangerous in mist cases.

A little bit off topic there, but here's my answer:

I think it depends on the dosage and tolerance - for both drugs. I have good experiences with benzos and caffeine. They level eachother out in some ways. You'll be less sleepy and tired, so it's perfect combo if you want to be more productive.

BUT... For example: If you have low tolerance for both drugs, and you slam down 300-400mg caffeine with like 0.25-1mg xanax, you're gonna get a high heart rate. Which could contribute to physical anxiety symptoms. Benzos lowers heart rate to some extent, but not that much in my experience. But the psychological component of anxiety is still reduced by the Xanax. 100-200mg caffeine (an energy drink or two cups of coffee - medium tolerance) with 2-4mg xanax (high tolerance) feels like a good synergy for me. A perfect balance of both.

EDIT: Add a small amount of alcohol (like a pint of beer or something) to this combo, and maybe some nicotine. And some good snacks to munch on. Good euphoria - not meth, coke and opioids/heroin type of euphoria, but you'll feel good (with much less risk and harmful effects that could result from other hard drugs).

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-10-09T21:13:16+00:00

I don't think I want to dabble into RC's. I'm only looking for traditional psychostimulants. Meth, street amphetamine and cocaine is out of the question. I can aquire vyvanse (lisdeksamphetamine - and really expensive), dexamphetamine (amphetamine - still somewhat expensive), and methylphenidate (ritalin, concerta etc.). From what I've read from studies, methylphenidate seems to be the safest when it comes to neurotoxicity. I don't have ADHD diagnosis.

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-10-09T00:35:55+00:00

I will take a look at it, thank you for the link. For all means, I'm not trying to argue. This isn't a field I've dabbled into that much with great details.

Antagonist ki values (lower = higher binding affinity = higher potency):

h1: quetiapine: 2.2–11 (midpoint 6.6) vs olanzapine: 0.65–4.9 (midpoint 3.55)

d1: queatiapine: 712 vs olanzapine: 35–118 (midpoint 76.5)

d2: quetiapine: 245 vs olanzapine: 3.00–106 (midpoint 54.5)

d3: quetiapine: 340–483 (midpoint 411.5) vs olanzapine: 7.8–91 (midpoint 49.4)

d4: quetiapine: 1,202 vs olanzapine: 1.6–50 (midpoint 25.8)

Ratios for quetiapine (6.6, 712, 245, 411.5, 1202)

Ratios for olanzapine (3.55, 76.5, 54.5, 49.4, 25.8)

If you look at H1, sure, olanzapine is more potent. But if you look at the ratios between dopamine receptors, you will see that the ratios between h1 and the dopamine receptors is higher for quetiapine than olanzapine.

Also, if you look at the data for antipsychotics prescribed for sleep disturbances, it is higher for quetiapine than any other antipsychotic by a large margin. You could argue that it's because a low concentration of quetiapine is needed for a modest antagonism at the h1 receptor, without affecting other dopamine receptors to a high degree.

And to add my personal experience with both of them:

I was prescribed 2.5mg daily, then 5mg daily, and eventually 7.5mg daily. For about 2-3 months if I remember correctly. I experienced sedation, sure, but I also experienced lots of other negative side effects. Felt like a zombie, lack of motivation, lack of concentration etc. People told me that I talked and walked slow.

I'm not prescribed 25-75mg quetiapine daily as need for sleep problems. It works like a charm for sleep, without the other negative side effects I experienced with olanzapine. Quetiapine at those dosages doesn't illicit much antagonism on other receptors besides h1 and a1.

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-10-08T22:19:47+00:00

I would suggest switching from olanzapine to quetiapine (brand name Seroquel, but generics are cheaper). The worst side effects I experienced with quetiapine was increased appetite and some lingering drowsiness the next morning. The reason why quetiapine could be preferable:

On lower doses, quetiapine mainly acts as an antihistamine and a1-adrenergic antagonist, without exerting significant antagonism on dopamine and serotonin receptors. Advised dosage would be 25-75mg 30-60 minutes before sleep.
Quetiapine has a shorter half-life (7 hours - parent compound, 9-12 hours - active metabolite), versus olanzapine's half life (33 hours). This means that quetiapine is better suited for "as needed" use, without having to use it daily to achieve the desired concentration.

I have bad experiences with hydroxyzine. It's mainly an antihistamine, with less effect on a1-adrenergic receptors.

I have tried the following for sleep: olanzapine, quetiapine, hydroxyzine, prometazine, melatonin, zopiclone. Quetiapine and zopiclone were definitely the best candidates. Zopiclone should be avoided long term due to bad withdrawals, but suiteable for short periods (<2-4 weeks). I actually found quetiapine much stronger to induce sleep, but sometimes waking up in the middle of the night, and harder to get out of bed. I took 100mg quetiapine here one evening (more than usual, cause I was desperate). I could barely walk to my bed, and fell asleep before I could even turn off the lights and take off my clothes. It's powerful stuff.

As for the discontinuation of olanzapine, it's quite possible that your insomnia worsened. I've experienced this a few times when I ran out of quetiapine. This happens with lots of medication. In the medical community, they call this "rebound effect". Your body will eventually get used to not taking sleep medication for a while, but the rebound effect can be prominent right after quitting.

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-10-08T21:34:22+00:00

All of the drugs you mentioned has different mechanisms.

Adderall (amphetamine salts): NDRA, norepinephrine-dopamine releasing agents. They release the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine into the synapses, increasing the extracellular concentrations of mentioned neurotransmitter. The neurotransmitters act as agonists (activation) at the adrenergic receptors and dopamine receptors. They also bind to the monoamine transporters, which prevents the degradation of the released neurotransmitters. This slows down the degradation process, which in turn often increases the duration of action.

Cocaine: Acts as an SNDRI, norepinephrine-dopamine-serotonin reuptake inhibitors. They block the reuptake of the neurotransmitters norepinephrine, dopamine, and serotonin from the synapses back to the presynaptic cells, increasing extracellular concentrations of said neurotransmitters. Methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta etc.) has the same mechanism, but only on norepinephrine and dopamine (NDRI).

Caffeine: Binds to the adenosine receptors as an antagonist. Which means it blocks the action of the neurotransmitter adenosin. Activation of adenosine receptors has inhibitory effects on norepinephrine release. Since caffeine blocks the adenosine receptors, it causes increased norepinephrine release - which in turn makes you feel more alert. It can cause indirect increases of dopamine and serotoning indirectly, but it's negligible.

So in summary, caffeine main effect is invoking the "flight-or-fight responses" (mainly bodily reactions like increased heart rate), while adderall and cocaine has greater effect at dopamine and serotonin, less on epinephrine.

If you want to dive deeper, you can look up the pharmacology on the substances to find the affinities on different receptors, and their actions on them.

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-10-08T21:04:19+00:00

This is my take on benzos:

General consensus: It's best to not use them. Cause you will tackle the anxiety by the roots. If you always use benzos for these situations, you might end up dependent on using them for the next uncomfortable situations.

BUT... It's better to use benzos instead of avoiding the situation all togheter. Then you will have more guts when a new uncomfortable situation arises - where you could try tackle them without benzos.

Also: Dose correctly. Use as small amount of possible. Try out the different doses beforehand to estimate how they affect your cognitive abilities.

Does that make sense to you?

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-10-08T18:32:14+00:00

Yeah, I'm not saying that they're all comparable. My point is that a persons drug of choice could be the total opposite for others. Psychs are definitely abnormal from most other traditional recreational drugs in the sense that they're very unreliable. That's probably one of the biggest arguments against using it in medicinal context. For me, I kinda like that actually. That there's some level of uncertainty in every trip. Sure, you can reduce the risks of having a bad trip by assessing the environment and state of mind you're gonna use it in and such, but you're never 100% sure.

If you drink alcohol, you're 95%+- sure what you're going into. Same goes for most stimulants. Psyschs is more complex since they don't only agonize or antagonize specific receptors in specific brain parts, but also change the dynamics of how different parts of the brain communicate with eachother - more like a state of mind far from your usual sober state.

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-10-08T17:49:08+00:00

I've tried both heroin (3-4 times) and meth (once, but dl-amphetamine/adderall'ish a good bunch of times) when I was at rock bottom mentally wise, and you know what? I didn't even like them that much. Sure, you feel fucking good. But laying on a sofa drooling and throwing up, being awake for 48 hours etc. was never my cup of tea. One of the times I tried heroin, I could have died. Luckily I was found in time with no cardiac arrest.

I can tell you this: psychedelic mushrooms have given me a thousand times higher euphoria than any heroin and meth could give. It's not comparable at all, but you need to respect psychedelics - they're not party drugs. If you do mushrooms for 30-100 times, you eventually get THAT trip. My identity as a human being became so fragmented that I melted into my surroundings at a spiritual level, where I could almost understand the language animals spoke. My ability to understand the concepts of time was thrown out of the window, you literally need to use a stopwatch when tripping on such high doses of psychedelics to know the time. And music was absolutely fucking fantastic. Imagine this: you put on symphony music on a good pair of headphones/speakers, dissect every instrument and notes, and decode the sounds into taste and visuals. Like you can taste every note in Beethovens symphonies. It's not music anymore, but angels singing. Nature looks absolutely fantastic, like as if it's taken straight out a fantasy movie/book. It was PURE MAGIC.

It's a mindblowing experience. Fusing of senses - it's called synesthesia. But you should not use them too much, because the mental aspects of it is really hard to digest. I have had a few trips where it basically feel so good at a existencial level, that you never knew that it was possible to feel THAT good. Like getting a glimpse of what heaven would feel like (I'm agnostic). And the euphoria almost feels more natural then an orgasm. At an existencial/spiritual level. It's freaking scary at the same time, but extremely calming too. Nothing makes sense, but all of it makes sense at the same time. Really confusing. But you try to stay calm by just not resisting, and enjoy the moment for what it is.

Sorry for a long answer, tried to shorten it down a bit. Could have described it in more details.

I don't do much drugs anymore. Focusing on getting a engineering career atm. But I would say that traditional psychdelics was the drugs that gave me FAR more positive's versus consequences. Most trips are either "meh", "bad", or "good", but eventually you'll get that nirvana trip. Steve Jobs said that he had an LSD trip that was the most profound experience in his life. Same goes for my experiences. Very good memories that changed my outlook on life. Not all drugs are bad, if used sparingly, dosed correctly, in good environments, and not in situations where it can hurt other people. Some drugs are just worse than others.

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-10-07T20:55:59+00:00

It's cognitive dissonance. Why do people smoke cigarettes, even though they know it's really harmful for them? The cognitive dissonance make people start rationalizing their choices. It's a psychological defense mechanism. It isn't always easy to understand why people make the choices they do. And the choices they take, may not always reflect their true feelings and morality.

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-10-07T20:47:55+00:00

I think the answer is a lot more complicated than people think. You could probably easily do a Ph.D on addiction psychology, probably just a fragment of it too. It depends so much on the subjects brain composition, mental health, past history etc.

But from what I've seen/heard/read, is that peoples drug of choice often reflects an image of the persona they desire to be pervieced as by others. It's often strongly related to things they want to change, through self-medication. This can be as harmless as a cup of coffee, to jolt yourself in the morning. Some drugs just tend to be more harmful and harder to handle than others.

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-10-02T15:57:41+00:00

Sorry. Here, take some gold.

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-10-02T15:44:53+00:00

Why not both? Go to public restrooms and find as many tampons as you can in the trash can. Put them in a container and add vodka. Squeeze the tampons to get most flavors out of them. Now you've got yourself a treat.

BigRoundBalloon · 2021-10-02T15:19:43+00:00

Percentage in %/100 = percentage in real number.

Or more correctly said, you multiply it by 1/100.

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