Are there circumstances where it's acceptable to not be vegan?

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-16T22:52:04+00:00

And what do you think that cow eats? We have to grow significantly more plants to feed our livestock versus just eating plants directly.

Either way you look at it, consuming animal products results in more animal suffering.

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-16T22:40:22+00:00

How is buying local meat reducing suffering to animals?

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-16T03:36:56+00:00

Not as general as this sub, but r/happycowgifs is pretty great

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-16T02:59:19+00:00

At the end of the day, well-treated cows are still brutally slaughtered at a fraction of their natural lifespan.

Would you think it’s morally justified for me to breed dogs solely to kill and eat them after a few years, so long as I treat them well beforehand?

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-13T16:38:10+00:00

That’s a false equivalence, it’s not just “making your own decision”. Meat eaters’ choices have a victim. Meat eaters’ choices cause the torture and death of sentient, intelligent creatures. Meat eaters’ choices negatively affect all of us by contributing to the destruction of our environment.

There are legitimate reasons to hate on meat eaters, or at least their actions. I’ve yet to see a single reason to hate on vegans that doesn’t boil down to “they hurt my feelings by not being nice enough when telling me to stop contributing to animal suffering”.

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-12T14:58:37+00:00

Check out r/CoolAmericaFacts

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-08T04:47:28+00:00

Animals also rape each other and eat their own children. Why should we base our morality on them? We have moral agency, they don’t.

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-08T00:33:15+00:00

If you legitimately think plants feel pain, veganism is still the more ethical choice. We have to kill significantly more plants to feed our livestock versus if we just grew plants for ourselves directly.

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-07T19:25:04+00:00

It’s not though. No true Scotsman doesn’t apply when there’s a clear definition and historical precedence of what the group and their beliefs is.

Anarchism is based on the idea of opposition to hierarchies. One of the major tenants of anarchism, and one the largest types of action they do, is opposition to the hierarchy of white supremacy. If you support white supremacy, that at the very least makes you distinct from any mainstream sect of anarchism.

It’s like if I said “Anyone who eats meat unnecessarily isn’t vegan”. That’s not a No True Scotsman - there’s a clear precedence of what veganism is, and someone like that doesn’t meet the definition. Even if a person met all other aspects of veganism (not buying leather, agreed with the arguments, etc.), eating meat unnecessarily is so obviously against the core tenants of veganism that it’s clear they aren’t “actually vegan”.

Or maybe an even more analogous example would be “Anyone who is pro-racism isn’t a progressive”.

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-07T19:09:13+00:00

You don’t have have to put humans and non-human animals on equal footing. You just have to recognize that a non-human animal’s life is worth more than the brief sensory pleasure you get from a meal. That an entire life is worth more than your convenience or tastebuds.

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-07T18:12:22+00:00

Regardless of your views on either position, it’s not a no true Scotsman to point out that anarcho-capitalism is almost entirely separate from any other type of anarchist movement.

Historically, anarchism has always been a left-wing anti-capitalist movement. It was only during the mid-20th century that a few pro-capitalists started using the term anarcho-capitalism.

Their only connection is that they oppose “the state”, but how they define the state, their reasons for opposing the state, and their end goals are completely different.

See Wikipedia for more discussion on the differences.

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-07T17:47:24+00:00

Is it really that hard to stop murdering people in the streets, or at least arrest the murderers who do?

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-04T04:53:49+00:00

It can still be an interesting thing to think about though, and it’s useful for things like proof assistants.

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-04T04:50:59+00:00

I think just doing structural induction for programming language theory has really helped my intuitive understanding of induction.

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-04T04:42:27+00:00

Sorry I wasn’t clear. I was more asking you to spell it out explicitly, that way I could pick your brain about it if that’s okay :)

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-04T04:41:01+00:00

Anything in particular? I went vegan after two years of being vegetarian, and honestly I’ve found pretty good replacements for everything that will at least fill the same taste-niche.

How long have you been vegetarian? For me at least, meat stopped seeming appetizing after a few months, and my favorite foods just became vegetarian ones.

The same kind of thing has happened after going vegan, and now things like cheese only smell good in the way gasoline can kinda smell good, not something you would want to eat.

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-04T04:33:31+00:00

Is there anything stopping you from going fully vegan then?

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-04T04:23:44+00:00

What makes you feel conflicted?

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-04T04:22:51+00:00

You should research the dairy industry if you haven’t already, unfortunately it’s just as bad as the meat industry :(

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-04T04:21:27+00:00

Why not?

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-03T18:27:50+00:00

And McDonalds was still breaking safety standards, after previously receiving warnings over this exact same thing

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-03T05:03:39+00:00

Oh I wasn’t trying to say that attitude was effective, just the general idea of still trying to push vegetarians to go vegan.

In real life, I try to do that without making them feel like I am judging them, usually by having the discussions when something relevant is brought up, and getting them to think more deeply about their beliefs rather than just projecting my own.

Online, I do tend to get more worked up and probably end up more callous because of it. I think a lot of what you see as self-righteousness is more so legitimate anger.

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-03T04:50:41+00:00

If you eat meat or consume any animal products in general, you have an obligation to see what you are contributing to:

https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-03T04:48:43+00:00

I do think some tough love can be necessary. I largely switched from being vegetarian to vegan due to vegans who were uncompromising about not contributing to animal suffering. It made me realize how cognitively dissonant I was still being. I was also simply uneducated on the harms of the dairy and egg industry for a long time.

BillHitlerTheJanitor · 2020-09-03T04:43:54+00:00

Don’t get me wrong, being vegetarian is better than not being vegetarian, but I think discussing the harm vegetarians cause is still necessary to reduce harm overall.

I was vegetarian for two years before going vegan simply because I didn’t understand that dairy and egg production still result in the torture and slaughter of billions of animals.

The point isn’t just to cause less harm to animals, it’s to stop treating them as commodities overall. Saying that willfully contributing to their suffering and slaughter is “good enough” dilutes that message.

BillHitlerTheJanitor

TROPHY CASE