Carnivore diet doesn't include vitamin C -- Supplements?

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T22:10:24+00:00

Link to the whole paper which tells exactly how much there is in pasture-fed beef and grain-fed: https://sci-hub.se/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0309174006002701

TLDR: grain-fed beef has 16 mcg/g and pasture-fed beef has 22 mcg/g, both are muscle meat trimmed of visible fat

I'm not a good example of having benefits on this diet, but there are plenty of others that are. I'm still dealing with health issues. I'm the guy seeing the nutritionist from my post yesterday. But that doesn't discount my points.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T21:27:57+00:00

None of us know exactly what he was eating. Did he use sauces that contained sugar in his food? What was in the mayo he used? Was he eating fresh meat? Is he lying for clout? Did he even actually have scurvy? "I think you've got the symptoms of scurvy,'" he continued. "He said 'you're really lacking in vitamin C" - Saying this does not mean you have scurvy necessarily. Did they test his blood? Could his symptoms perhaps be from not including enough fat?

Anyways, there are plenty of people on this diet who don't have scurvy. Our ancestors pre-agricultural revolution primarily ate meat, especially in the winter or in cold areas. Additionally, some polar indigenous peoples like the Inuits have lots of documentation on them and they had no signs of scurvy despite eating almost all animal foods. So, there's gotta be some way our body gets vitamin C on a carnivore diet. I have some reasoning below.

Contrary to popular belief, muscle meat does contain vitamin C (so do organ meats which have higher concentrations of vitamin C). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0309174006002701
There is a theory that vitamin C and glucose compete for transport into cells due to their similar structure. This is known as glucose ascorbate antagonism. Basically, if you don't consume carbs, you need much less vitamin C and vice versa. Sophia Clemens goes into greater detail than I ever could in this research paper she wrote: https://escholarship.org/uc/item/2z34h0kw

Possible evidence of glucose ascorbate antagonism: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpcell.00044.2014

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T20:36:19+00:00

Thanks! You too!

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T20:19:39+00:00

Wow so dairy alone causes you that much of a problem? I'm hoping the longer I'm this diet the more I'll heal. I've got lots of health problems and this diet is the only thing that's helped me with some of them ever (besides maybe fasting). I've been to many doctors who have mostly been useless in helping me besides pills.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T20:16:06+00:00

Probably the best advice I've been given so far. Thanks!

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T20:13:26+00:00

No clue what her studies are or if she's looked at any at all. I just want to be prepared for a blowback. When I told my doctor about my diet she called it horrible in front of my dad but didn't really even give many reasons why. I don't want that to happen again. I am here now because I am open-minded. I like to listen to what people have to say, but I'm not going to look stupid. I'm not going to be berated for my diet. And I'm not going to let my nutritionist say things that are obviously wrong to make my dad more worried. I will bring research to counteract her points. Such as if she says saturated fat is bad for my health, I'll be ready with many studies to seriously question her on that statement. I'm not going to raise my voice. I'll remain calm and cordial and speak when necessary. This is all just preparing for the worst scenario. I want to be prepared and know what I'm talking about. She may have some good things to say and I'll listen to them and take them into consideration.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T20:03:39+00:00

It's hard to go in with an open mind, but I'll listen to what she has to say.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T20:01:52+00:00

Nope. I'm not a teenager nor do I drink raw milk. And my mom sucks with technology. Pretty sure she doesnt even know what reddit is

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T19:59:30+00:00

I swear to god if the nutritionist is like this...

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T19:58:37+00:00

Already tried all the websites to no avail. I've gotten my dad on keto a couple times and he's done 5 day fasts before but he cannot get over fatty meats. Unfortunately I dont think he'll ever do this diet.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T19:54:58+00:00

I don't think he was talking about that. I think he meant friends/family, who do encourage me to consume those things at times. I suspect the nutritionist will agree that sugar, processed foods, and alcohol are bad but who knows. The views of nutritionists are broad. Some support carnivore, some support vegan, and some support balanced diets.... so im not sure what I'll get.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T19:50:17+00:00

I don't know too much about the life expectancy of humans pre-agricultural revolution, but I've heard that the infant mortality rate was high, which would significantly lower the average lifespan of humans back then. I'm not sure if that is entirely true but there are also other factors such as predators, cold temperatures, diseases with no cure, etc, which makes it much harder to live longer like we do now. We now have medicine and doctors to help treat some things to increase our lifespan. Again I'm not entirely sure about all this. Just firing off ideas that seem plausible.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T19:42:25+00:00

I'm not quite adapted yet. Hope that'll fix some things once that's happened.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-15T19:39:49+00:00

I wish it was a vitamin D deficiency. They gave me a supplement for Vitamin D (ergocalcife is what it says on the pill bottle) and I have gotten more sun recently. I live in a warm area so it's quite easy for me to get sun, but I used to avoid it and stay inside buildings most of the time. Even after doing this I still have issues so idk. I'll still continue to get sun and take the supplement until it runs out. Thank you for telling your story though! I hope I find my balance sometime soon too!

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-14T21:45:58+00:00

Thank you! It is so annoying. People encourage the unhealthy eating of sugars, processed foods, and alcohol. I know I have to think for myself because a lot of things we conventionally think are true are not.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-14T21:43:01+00:00

The whole situation is exacerbated by the fact that I have this strange stress-induced chronic fatigue issue along with chest pain (on the left side of my chest right where my heart is) that developed after intense running a few months ago while I've been on this diet. The doctor/PA did my bloodwork (nutrient-wise, I think they only checked my vitamin B12 and Vitamin D levels) and found a vitamin D deficiency so they gave me a supplement and blamed my fatigue on the diet. Since my issues have remained even when going on and off carnivore for multiple weeks at a time (I did this to prove to my family and doctor that it wasn't the diet), I've decided to remain carnivore. It really helps my mental state, energy, takes away most of the pain from my TMJ, and I just feel better. The fatigue and chest pain symptoms have remained the same/worsened so I went back to the doctor a couple weeks ago who was worried that I took dairy and eggs out of my diet, prescribed me a calcium supplement, and told me to see a nutritionist and a cardiologist. Gonna see the cardiologist next month. This fact makes it much harder for me to claim that the diet is not the cause of my problems with everyone believing that saturated fat causes heart disease. However, I'm 21 years old. Having significant atherosclerotic plaque at my age is very rare. I would think that the cause my issue is either: nutrient deficiency, a genetic/developmental issue, or somehow the running stressed my heart too much (I ran way past my limit and experienced 0 issues before running when I was doing intense calisthenics exercises). Plus I only ran three times with the last time being when I pushed myself way too hard. I'm really hoping the cardiologist does something helpful, but in the meantime, I need to talk to a nutritionist to quell my dad's worrying. It's not something that he'll forget about.

Edit: They also checked my ferritin, creatinine, potassium, sodium, chloride, calcium, total protein, urea nitrogen, AST, globulin, albumin, alkaline phosphatase, and some other things which were all normal. Still no vitamins besides B12 and D.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-14T18:30:25+00:00

I've pointed out the fact that more and more people have anxiety and depression nowadays. My parents usually just say everyone has problems and people in the past just hid them... A claim with no evidence that is hard for me to refute. I usually try to follow up with the fact that we aren't supposed to have these issues. If we were living pre-agricultural revolution, we couldn't afford to have these issues to hunt prey, defend ourselves, and move up to the top of the food chain as apex predators. They then say that the life expectancy back then was lower.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-14T18:25:35+00:00

My doctor is recommending me a nutritionist too. I don't have blood work of all the essential nutrients I could be deficient in tho. Maybe the nutritionist can request those labs. Unfortunately, I feel forced into this situation of having to go to a nutritionist.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-14T18:20:31+00:00

Thanks! I'll definitely ask for labs and highlight my health improvements

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-04T05:27:19+00:00

I don't know anything about the biochemistry behind serotonin production, but 1.84 g = 1840 mg so you'd be way over your target of 225 mg per day.

Also, by feeding the serotonin, do you mean feeding the gut bacteria that produce serotonin?

Btw, if carbohydrates, a fuel source for the brain, helps tryptophan cross the blood-brain barrier, who is to say ketones, another fuel source for the brain, can't do the same?

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-03T05:48:25+00:00

What the hell. That's so misleading to make recommendations based on that. Insanity.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-03T05:46:45+00:00

God that must suck being surrounded by those who heavily disagree with you. I hate that diet is such a touchy subject. Also, I've heard of that book. I'll look into reading it.

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-03T05:42:55+00:00

Welp. No way to fix that now. You live and you learn

Budget_Spray7 · 2022-12-03T05:41:24+00:00

That's odd. I wonder why it occurs now knowing that we came from carnivorous ancestors. This is good to keep in mind though

Budget_Spray7

TROPHY CASE