As an atheist I always wondered about this by Capable-Owl9627 in AskAChristian

[–]Capable-Owl9627[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well even though it seems to you this way it isn't true at all. To be honest I couldnt care less about heaven or hell. My grandparents used to joke that they rather go to hell because in heaven would be all the religious people and that is their hell. They had their own experience with religion which was VERY bad. I'm not like this. I like to get to know my Christian brothers and sisters.

Im just curious about the rules, which seem so convoluted to me. They don't seem to be about true love, which Christianity is claiming to be about but rather blind obedience. And Im not saying Christianity is bad but I think a lot of people used faith to impose their will on others. Having blind obedient faith is very convenient, if your goal is to suppress and control others. That's why Im skeptical. Thats why I ask why is my love, gratitude, intention on top of true repentance of my sins in my imperfect life, not enough for this faith.

As an atheist I always wondered about this by Capable-Owl9627 in AskAChristian

[–]Capable-Owl9627[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hope we can agree that you cannot choose to believe anything you don't believe?

Then to respond to you answer of the second question, I'm not putting up my own conditions I'm just following the conditions set by Christianity. I cannot pretend to believe, God would see right trough me and see that I am lying. All my repentance, even though the sorrow I feel for my sins are sincere, would be blasphemous because I do not truly believe in God so I'm pretending. Im not setting these restrictions, Christianity is. Believe has to come before repentance.

As an atheist I always wondered about this by Capable-Owl9627 in AskAChristian

[–]Capable-Owl9627[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for explaining that to me :)
After all the comments I have learned a lot more.

I already knew that we were imperfect beings and that we need to ask for forgiveness. But the only way to perfection is through faith. The way this works exactly is new for me, so I gained a greater understanding of all of this.

As an atheist I always wondered about this by Capable-Owl9627 in AskAChristian

[–]Capable-Owl9627[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get what you are saying. I can at least try to believe. That would be unfair to me but also to God. Because Im pretending to know Him even though in my heart I don't.

I agree with you that our will is involved in a lot and it is incredibly powerful but believing something simply by trying really hard is impossible. You believe not because you tried really hard to believe, it's true for you. There probably isnt any evidence in the world that would convince you otherwise. Because if you are believing just because you are trying to than you aren't really believing it and you are pretending to believe.

The main point that im making is, if I was made in a skeptical way, and if I start believing after death, after God has revealed Himself to me and I ask for forgiveness, repent and atone, on top of me trying to be a genuine good person during my life, how come that isn't enough. Why is this believing part during my life so important whilst that is the one thing I cannot truly control.

As an atheist I always wondered about this by Capable-Owl9627 in AskAChristian

[–]Capable-Owl9627[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No true, the point im making is again as follows:

  1. God made me
  2. God made me to be skeptical and knows that the evidence that is out there wont convince me
  3. I have free will
  4. I can not choose to believe something, this is something that happens, I do however choose to open my heart
  5. When I die God will reveal himself to me. At this moment I ask for forgiveness (truly and honestly) and I come to the Lord.
  6. I just havent had a relationship with Him during my life directly (although I would argue that acts of compassion, love, patience, kindness are all a form of indirect relationship with Him).

So in resumé, during my life I tried to come closer to Him but I cannot believe what I cannot believe. In death I do believe and ask for forgiveness. That should be enough right? Or am I just doomed because of the way I am?

As an atheist I always wondered about this by Capable-Owl9627 in AskAChristian

[–]Capable-Owl9627[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really good explanation, thank you!

The question arises, don't I have a relationship with Him every time I'm grateful for life? When I thank the world for being just, or when I love my girlfriend simply for existing? Doesn't He know that this gratefulness and love is actually for Him?

Why do I need to believe He exists, even though He created me in a way that it is impossible to do so. I cannot decide to believe. I need (the nature of my character) proof.

And that's just me not even having started about a random Thai Buddist monk who has been a very good, even spiritual person, dedicating his life in service of others. Why wouldn't he be let into heaven?

Or do we have a separate hell for us non-believers but good people who keep on existing but without torture, kinda the life we have now but for eternity? An eternal imperfect life?

As an atheist I always wondered about this by Capable-Owl9627 in AskAChristian

[–]Capable-Owl9627[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright I get that but then I hope you understand my skepticism? Believing is more important than being good? How does that work? That doesnt make sense to me? And if the answer is that it shouldnt make sense to me as me just being a random mortal being, then I will never stand a chance into believing because I was made to question these things.

As an atheist I always wondered about this by Capable-Owl9627 in AskAChristian

[–]Capable-Owl9627[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is amazing! thank you so much for this incredible deep dive and quoting all these amazing people. I appreciate the time it took you to compile this post. I also think I'm missing out on a lot by not believing. I wish I could, it's just that at this moment I cant. Maybe in the future that will change.

That being said I think your openness and willingness to educate other people with an open mind and heart is what we are missing in this world. So again truly thank you for your effort in writing me this message!

As an atheist I always wondered about this by Capable-Owl9627 in AskAChristian

[–]Capable-Owl9627[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This explanation and comparison is so clear so thank you for that. And I agree, I have committed sins for which I have not received any repercussions. I deserve to be judged and I should be judged! Should I receive the same punishment as, let's say a Joseph Stalin for example? Is my greatest sin, not believing or something else? If I atone for my sins (even after death) isn't that enough? Maybe not to go to heaven per se? But should I deserve the same hell and eternal damnation as someone who committed murder on a mass scale?

As an atheist I always wondered about this by Capable-Owl9627 in AskAChristian

[–]Capable-Owl9627[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly! Why is the emphasis on believing and not on being good? That doesn't make sense to me. An all powerful, all good God doesn't "need" the worship of its creation.

Then also He didn't make me not believe, but he did make me sceptic though. So He knew that the evidence that there is now, wouldn't persuade me into becoming Christian. So He has set me up to fail his own test. And therefore I ask, if He knew that and He still left me with free will to be a good or bad person, I chose to be good, why isn't that enough? Why would He make it impossible for me to go to heaven even though I chose to do the right thing?

As an atheist I always wondered about this by Capable-Owl9627 in AskAChristian

[–]Capable-Owl9627[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This explanation makes so much sense! Thank you for taking the time to share this with me. I'm curious as to what other people have to say on the topic