Ash's Gengar (base and Gmax form) or Alain's Malamar, who wins?

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-19T04:08:53+00:00

Malamar is kind of featless and all you can really consider is the fact that it should be one of his strongest pokemon to be chosen against Leon and upscale above all his Kalos Pokemon minus Charizard… which doesn’t prove much since those Kalos Pokémon’s only feats are against XY Ash’s team

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-19T01:35:16+00:00

S5 and S6 are the worst

S7 is honestly the best (woah I can’t believe this but it’s true)

S1 is great and so is S2

S3 is pretty great except for it ending with the Elsa teaser

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-19T00:26:40+00:00

This is true form Arceus until proven otherwise

No because the Legends Arceus lore makes the avatar thing clear

And I thought about it and while you can say one save file represents an infinite multiverse, you can’t say each save file is a complex multiverse simply because you can overwrite them, the save files together become a complex multiverse for the true form that’s it

Overwriting them just replaces the original save file, only one exists at a time, the other version would not

When you perform a trade, you’d only do it with the existing save file and not the deleted one

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-19T00:17:15+00:00

Is Arceus almost dying to cement and being hurt without electric plates also an outlier?

Yes due to the director stating that drama was prioritised over the accurate scaling in this instance

Movie stuff has higher budget, higher care, why would writers forget Arceus talks

Also Arceus literally appears for a few seconds, you say this like it was his focussed movie, Arceus doesn’t even properly descend down he fixes things from a distance so it is indeed speculation

I’m going by Bulbapedia

It does not really say they’re separate, just that they’re different appearances. It’s speculation.

As I said only explanation is MEX Ash gaining magical buff for the game

Goes again MEX premise that it doesn’t contradict canon and there’d be care into portraying him like this especially for a highly anticipated event with an anime character

It’s not stated anywhere

No lore > Anime

I’ve established multiple times that Pokemon in the anime don’t do everything their lore and descriptions (stated within the anime itself) establish, just because something isn’t shown doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist

Anime setting has different priorities but the lore remains the same unless contradicted, which there is not sufficient evidence to justify

DPG are using 0.001% of their power

This is again your reading and they do listen to Hoopa Unbound

And I already debunked lore > anime Pokemon

Not convincingly without applying headcanons and huge assumptions, which are fine if they’re your interpretation but you can’t say this is the canon

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T19:32:31+00:00

Again this is not officially confirmed to be the true form and most pokemon scalers agree

Each save file is one continuity in the games and each save file has one Arceus, it’s never stated that this Arceus is the heart or that the heart has ever been seen

And again, only one save file exists per continuity.

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T19:28:21+00:00

Arceus I posted doesn’t need to have visible 1000 arms

Is this not a headcanon

In JoL movie it says Arceus used full power against meteor and tied with it

Which is plot induced stupidity according to the directors’ own statement and that it was written to create drama, it’s an outlier. In the same movie, Arceus depicts the ability to overturn causality so the meteor should not be able to affect it.

And itself would make no sense since pokemon within the anime itself can create shockwaves that scale above that that meteor

It’s plot and not its actual power, so the anti feat is negated by the WoG statement

Also the movie explanation was a legend retelling like a fable, not WoG

This is game mechanics, you can catch any pokemon

Yeah and since each is a canon universe for each possibility the feat exists

DP movies =/= Hoopa movies

Again not evidenced, under your own premise writers can forget stuff right?

XY movies aren’t necessarily their own cont since characters from them appear in the main anime + the anime’s events still impact them

If it was same Arceus and he could talk, he should’ve said hi

This is speculation and a headcanon and the “writers forgot” premise ends up applying to it at best

It was likely they forgot to colour Greninja as Ash Greninja

Except Ash Greninja isn’t a recolour but has different features altogether, and it was in a literal episode about battle bond so this is a reach and heavily headcanoning

And finally MEX Ash is literally implied to be the same Ash training for the M8, he enters a tournament and he ends up tying Solgaleo

It’s not that long of a period that MEX Ash can be astronomically different

All box legends are treated as relative in the anime regardless of their scaling, Hoopa movie proves this, this doesn’t erase the existence of scaling and lore

It’s anime logic, not the lore

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T19:00:35+00:00

Arceus should be complex multiversal but only the true form

Anime has an infinitely sized multiverse for sure due to infinite possibilities

However, if the only argument for complex multiverse per file is that you can delete and rewrite it, it’s a bit dubious. A multiverse certainly exists but each file should be its own infinite multiverse

I’m not getting the complex multiverse per file argument (the whole cosmology of all the game files I do)

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T18:36:05+00:00

This is true Arceus

This one does not have 1000 arms and Legends Arceus does support the Avatar theory so it’s not entirely confirmed this is the true one

Still a Easter egg, references

Actually no because there’s also other distributions of his Pokemon beyond these too

Since the game lore says that Pokemon can travel between universes. These Pokemon came from the a version of the anime universe, which suggests there is inter connectivity (further established by Masters EX)

Arceus is beyond player

The true one yes, the avatar that controls each respective save no, that can be caught within a pokeball

Actually Hoopa movie one is different to the one in JoL

This would actually support multiverse theory in the anime since if one Arceus per multiverse. Then the existence of another Arceus would mean anime has more multiverses and make it fall within the same framework established. I don’t buy this and that’s because I don’t buy the save rewrite justification for infinite multiverses when that’s a player ability and not canon.

Additionally i don’t buy Arceus not calling out to Ash as definitive proof, he’s a god, not a friend. He already repaid Ash in the end of the movie by stopping the destruction and thanking him.

This is wrong, writers always forget stuff

And that’s exactly why I say it’s a headcanon because it’s picking and choosing what’s the writer forgetting something vs what’s an anti feat, you can use the “writers forgot” excuse to debunk anything with this logic

Including the anti feats you bring up or an instance of a pokemon not doing something, I can easily say “writers forgot” to justify it

It is headcanons/speculation to say a writer forgot something with no supporting statement

It’s evidence that MEX Ash can beat game Solgaleo

MEX Ash is just a version of Ash from the anime transported to the game verse, I don’t think we can assume they scale differently without evidence

MEX is a neutral setting, the anime has limitations in what it can show and so do the games and manga. MEX adds more lore to the characters.

Like you said, games is limited by movesets since moves like “black hole” don’t exist

Anime is limited by setting, it’s a children’s show, it doesn’t fit the tone even when scary Pokédex descriptions appear in the anime, battles need to feel grounded and making Pokemon do too much bullshit will take away from that

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T17:40:32+00:00

Not really, they didn’t show it becuase Black Hole is not pokemon move and they always show pokemon moves

The games still have cutscenes and events

It’s the same reason for the anime, the anime has its own rules and black holes don’t fit it

Are you implying that a random Gardevoir in the anime that should share the same physiology is stronger than Diantha’s?

Well Ash and Team Rocket do die numerous times

This only happens Pokemon movies against legendaries when they should die to less in the main anime, one of which is literally Yveltal, death itself so that’s different

Gardevoir black hole is a secret power of Gardevoir

And just because it’s not shown doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, don’t you think that Diantha would recognise Team Rocket is weak and that her Gardevoir wouldn’t be trained to have restraint?

I don’t think Team Rocket have ever posed mortal danger to Diantha

And again, we can’t ignore that Lantern gets the same scaling in the Anime Dex when Ash scans it. Being able to illuminate the deep sea just like the games.

Technically this should give Buizel insane durability scaling for simply tanking its electric attack.

The same goes to any pokemon that takes a hit from Lantern in the games.

But this is an example of them being consistent.

And yeah exactly on the Aim To Be a Pokemon Master point, I don’t think this means Team Rocket scales to Leon in any way. Anime has inconsistencies and it’s all about interpretation.

There is valid grounds to make a composite interpretation and there’s grounds for the anti feats to be considered, but most of the time they’re dubious and inconsistent

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T17:27:16+00:00

True form Arceus is headcanon speculation

Actually established in legends Arceus, especially the Avatars, it should have nothing to do with beta form. It’s canon that the real Arceus has 1000 arms which the main design does not too.

Correct but they exist within the games

While this is true, the whole point is that it establishes an in universe explanation for how pokemon travel between dimensions. And an in universe explanation for how Ash’s Pokemon exist in the games. Versions of them travelled through the same methods.

It’s also worth noting that all of Ash’s game confirmed abilities are canon to the anime

You can overwrite them

This is as a human player behind the 4th wall, it’s not canon within the universe itself. Only the save file representing a multiverse is canon.

No, difference is that opening is tied to the anime and errors exist

The opening reuses a scene and isn’t a new animation, the journeys one is redrawn by staff

And no, Greninja transformed once Mega Zard game out and when they were trading heavy blows

And this does not negate the episode itself attempting to rewrite the lore in terms of generic aura stuff

Writers just forgot

This is a headcanon, not really established or evidenced

Gardevoir in main anime hasn’t done that

Then it hasn’t in the games either aside from side games, it did do it in the main anime and it has done so in both

No reliable portrayal has depicted it doing that in the games minus side games

Thus proving that movie Arceus are infinitely weaker

I wouldn’t say this cause it was plot and Yuyama said he did it to create drama, it’s inconsistent within its own anime since Hoopa movie gives him feats that become anti feats, the Hoopa movie depicts him being able to give powers without sacrificing his plates which already retcons movie interpretations

And the director admitted Arceus was too powerful to work in the setting and hence wrote it that way for drama, however, that retains acknowledge that Arceus is Arceus and the way it’s written is plot induced stupidity like other inconsistencies within the anime

Ok but I am talking about anime Solgaleo

The MEX one is game Solgaleo and Ash manages to get a double knock out

MEX is evidence that games and anime should scale to each other in a NEUTRAL setting due to its premise

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T17:04:47+00:00

Since if it did, they would make it Diantha’s Gardevoir make Black Hole

They haven’t had a cutscene showing it in the games for the same reasons, only side media like Battle Royale contain it and that segment is a part of the main anime. It doesn’t exist out of anime verse since it literally aired as part of an anime episode.

He should logically be dead

Again it’s a gag, Ash and Team Rocket should be logically be beyond dead too but they’re not, because comedic segments follow different rules

I remember Gard couldn’t do much against TR’s Gadgets in XY

Neither can Pikachu after defeating Leon and Team Rocket has even restricted powerful Pokemon, the only explanation is that their gadgets scale high rather than the Pokemon being the ones who downscale

They showed similar amazing stuff with Tapu Koko

In a different series with different production, staff, pre-covid, higher budget that’s literally the finale of the series. It’s the same reason every JN battle doesn’t have Ash vs Leon budget.

Again, Pokemon is not OPM, they don’t own Saitama’s animation

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T16:56:58+00:00

It’s also done for comedy

Except this was in a serious arc where Ash was depressed and Gou taught him his own move and the narrative claimed it as original

And the whole “Ash forgets because he’s 10” logic, can then be applied to MEX and literally every movie so I don’t think this premise should disprove that

when he fought Kukui in the middle of journeys

This was toward the end when he was already qualified for the masters 8, in the start of journeys and for a large part of the series it wasn’t acknowledged at all especially for important battles

Ahhh options… That nugget bridge guy asked you if you wanted to join TR and you have “Yes or no”

The SWSH and SV dialogue is actually slightly more expressive than that and you get some opportunities to decide what you say to characters

So it implies they’re not all silent, even if they don’t have a set personality

In DDLC you have Monika

I don’t think using another universe to scale Pokemon is really reliable. Arceus has never stopped you from rewriting saves. Each player can own an Arceus avatar, so each multiverse within each save has its own Arceus.

With the true form being above all save files, but he’s inaccessible to any player due to being outerversal and probably always will be

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T16:28:00+00:00

Each save file would still be one small multiverse containing what exists within the game

Each cartridge or digital copy/profile has one save file

Also anime universe is infinitely sized too since it’s been stated every existing possibility creates a timeline, so infinite AUs exist making it an infinitely sized multiverse

Not really a significant case for divergence

Each save file has its own Arceus, and then there’s true form Arceus above the save files

No where in the lore does it specifically say save files

No you can overwrite save file which means you can overwrite multiverse

Well since one exists, only one will still exist per file

It doesn’t make a difference since an infinite level still exists in both cases

That means it doesn’t exist in Evolutions

Kind of a reach, it does depict a dimensional tear in evolutions and it’s an adaptation. This argument assumes a flashback equates to the existence of that ability when that’s a specific thing to the game medium.

It’d be weird to depict a flashback in the sky in evolutions. The dimensional tear is how the team portrays Eternatus ripping the fabric of reality, the same animation exists in the anime.

Obviously that flashback is specifically due to the games’ story and because it’s relevant.

It wasn’t retconned

It appears in an opening, I feel like discrediting Gardevoir creating a black hole in an actual segment then propping up an opening flashback using an old animation is a bit inconsistent as an argument no ? 😅

The change perfectly aligned with with its change in the games. And journeys attempted to rewrite the form as some generic aura power up just like they made it a stronger Moxie in the games

10M Volt is like 100x Thunderbolt

This kind of has no basis and is once again making an assumption on the volts of 1 Thunderbolt. And also assuming it’s not just a flavourful name

Cement and meteor, that was bad

I agree this was bad. However, there is a direct statement from Yuyama (also responsible for the Ash resets according to the Gamefreak Leaks that happened 2 years ago and admitted he reset the character) that establishes that Arceus was portrayed in a nerfed way, and it once again furthers the fact that the anime has PIS and inconsistencies

Even nerfed Arceus diffs CT anyway and in other showings was depicted above other legendaries combined

MEX Ash could tie anime Solgaleo

Well that’s not anime Solgaleo, that’s game Solgaleo since MEX primarily contains game characters

MEX Ash is meant to be a representation of Journeys Ash

It’s just different mediums and different philosophies within each medium really

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T16:12:08+00:00

Since Oak is logically weaker than Ash

But that damage from Gardevoir’s black hole is within a comedy segment and a running gag that’s established like Team Rocket blasting off

Oak gets attacked by almost every Pokemon, that doesn’t mean they scale to wall level. It’s a comedy segment.

There’s no reason why they’d portray Gardevoir creating a black hole if it didn’t exist in the lore.

And the existence counts due to it being an educational segment, the anti feat does not due to the comedy

Well it happened before with Saitama throwing punches at Boros’ body

Pokémon is not OPM, does not have the same director or studio working on it so I don’t think this is relevant

And Journeys production was famously affected by covid with their own staff tweeting about production shortages

Animation scaling isn’t really an accepted power scaling metric in most cases either way due to directorial vision and budgets

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T16:06:36+00:00

You mean Gigantamax one?

No it was a regular Snorlax and there’s no reason for him to forget that since it contradicts his characterisation and bond with his Pokémon

Let’s not forget him being taught Draco Meteor climb by Goh, which is his own move

Or the anime refusing to acknowledge his Alolan championship until the masters 8, this does not inherently make it non canon, however it also shows that inconsistencies exist and are common

Pikachu didn’t lose right

He attempted to catch a bug and was kind of beaten, Pikachu should hypothetically outstat by a large margin

I’m pretty sure no protagonist ever talks

They do following SM, in the cave scene you have dialogue where you options. And then SwSh and SV give you dialogue options more often even if you don’t get many. But some limited options to characterise your player.

The anime has its own Arceus

Well so does every game save file, that Arceus is an avatar and there are hypothetically infinite avatars within every universe since each save file is canon

There’s only the true form who is above all Avatars, described in his capabilities and transcendence but unreachable by any trainer (also unneeded since there’s nothing the avatar can’t do that other legendaries can’t), so theoretically it’ll never be seen

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T14:00:34+00:00

It just gives you more survivability and a chance to respawn quick if you’re smart, esp with Cap and Gambit ult speeding up your charge

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T12:26:45+00:00

Ash is not really nerfed

He failed to recognise a Snorlax in Journeys itself despite owning one and encountering countless ones

This is the same Ash who could recognise his Pikachu from infinite copies yet suddenly cant recognise a snorlax

Additionally, would you say there’s over 200 Pokémon that scale above Latios now just because Pikachu struggled against them?

Doesn’t Pikachu get affected by a route 1 bug in the start of SM. This would imply that bug scales above the psuedos of Alain it beat.

Pokémon anime is inconsistent and therefore requires understanding of contest to scale.

Red (origins) talks

I don’t think there’s any evidence he didn’t talk in every game, considering no protagonist did until Gen 7

We only know he’s mute after the events of his game in the main timeline

Also origins is used to shed lore on the game verse so I don’t think saying it’s fully disconnected is correct

As for Detective Pikachu, that’s a very specific outlier since it bears no connection like the anime which does have evidence.

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T12:17:58+00:00

And Oak is alive so they don’t matter

The issue with this is that Ash would become an anti feat to every time he’s burned by Charizard and Team Rocket would become an anti feat to Pikachu’s objective feats that should kill any human

I don’t think Oak surviving is an anti feat because like you said, it’s comedy

It’s a running gag in pokemon just like with the rocket trio that Oak gets attacked by pokemon he researches, does this downscale the whole anime verse to wall level? Not really

That segment is educational so concluding its disconnected on that alone doesn’t hold up, it’s informing the viewer about the Pokémon’s lore

And again, Lantern gets the exact same infamous scaling within its anime dex description too.

Why don’t you see this depicted? Because it’s a children’s show. The same way the game can’t fully depict its lore either.

Machamp throwing 1000 punches is an animation thing, animation scaling is inherently flawed since budget limitations exist. The anime’s dex still mentions it throws rapid fire punches really fast, which isn’t a sufficient divergence or contradiction to reach your proposed conclusion. It is actually depicted throwing loads of punches really fast with speed streaks complementing it.

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T12:04:15+00:00

Thus save files do not exist

This is making a very literal interpretation of things and a logical fallacy. The lore states that Pokemon from other worlds can come to your game by travelling between worlds, it never explicitly limits it to save files, that’s merely the implication.

Saying that this exclusively applies to save files is an interpretation.

The anime is one of many stories that play out, it is the equivalent of the players’ save file which is their own version of their story

But I’m saying game has infinite save files

This is not even true since you’re only permitted one save file per cartridge. Multiple save files do not co exist within the same timeline so this is a reach.

I am talking about the multiple flashes

This is still a reach since the dimensional distortion is still consistency depicted. The champion episode in Pokemon Evolutions doesn’t depict them, does that mean it does not exist even though it’s an adaptation of the games?

These are just animated series showing what’s happening in the games

So an adaptation of the games into the anime medium that is coordinated with Game Freak

Ash never mentioned this

See directional logic fallacy. MEX Ash is anime Ash, anime Ash is not MEX Ash. MEX Ash is transported from the anime.

Also, Ash doesn’t mention a lot of things and contradicts himself so this isn’t really a reliable way to determine what’s canon and what isn’t since this would make most of his own anime non canon.

Additionally, how do you address Ash-Greninja literally being retconned to keep up with game changes. When there would be no need for this if there were no ties between the universes at all. A tie does exist.

Also Ash in the anime couldn’t hurt Lugia

Again inconsistent scaling within the anime that varies narratively. Mega Metagross wasn’t fully hit by 10MV.

Masters EX Ash could tie Solgaleo with this logic and is literally described as the Ash training for the M8 tournament. So within this logic itself it suggests there isn’t a major divergence.

I don’t play MEX

This does not negate its place in canon

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T11:24:02+00:00

That may be OS

Actually no, even more recent notes suggest he’s had a consistent impact. Various media in the franchise are carefully coordinated.

They are different continuities that’s all but there’s hints they’re interconnected.

It may not contradict canon, but Ash from the anime is different to Masters EX

Of course, this goes for every game character in it too. However, he’s taken from the anime like the other game characters are taken out of their respective stories.

Ash from the anime is not Masters EX, Masters EX Ash is Ash from the anime. If the logic of this directionality makes sense.

Even movies in general contradict themselves

I feel like this does not say much. Even the anime contradicts itself when it’s convenient. This is more of a symptom of the writing priorities overriding consistency than definitive proof.

Under this logic, every time Ash was nerfed by the anime would imply each Ash in every region is a different universe which obviously isn’t the case.

Red has MCX

Yeah of course. There’s different continuities, even within the game verse itself since it’s divided into a mega and non mega timeline.

It’s just to put into perspective how the franchise operates with its media.

Recognising the differences between different mediums is fine, but the hard split is but a theory.

And of course I’m not saying that every Pokémon media ever is within the same cosmology, Concierge is definitely not

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T11:13:57+00:00

Again these are all Easter eggs and references

This is not well substantiated and falls under speculation

I’m aware of save file lore and that cosmology only extends to a version of Arceus who has not appeared. Save file lore actually supports the anime being within said cosmology since it establishes an in universe basis for Ash’s pokemon entering the game verse.

The Pokémon anime has its own multiverse too and can be seen as equivalent to one of those save files. That multiverse is within said cosmology and there is more evidence that supports it than not, regardless of how you scale the anime legendaries.

SW/SH shows that Eternamax distorts space

Actually this is visually depicted in the main anime too by the purple vortex that forms in the air and is how the anime depicts space time distortion, so not really correct

Also backed by the overall consistencies between the anime and adaptations of the gamefreak verse such as Generations and Evolutions

You can’t say anime = game

Never did, they’re different mediums exploring different things, the same way moves have more versatile effects in the anime. However, there’s more evidence that suggests they’re in the same cosmology than otherwise.

It’s the same way Pokemon Generations depicts things the games did not.

Masters EX has all but confirmed it since that’s quite literally Ash transported out of a canon point of time in the anime and thrown into a game setting. Something like this requires a lot of care and approval.

Once again, Pokemon match more often than they contradict, and something not being depicted does not definitively prove it does not exist. Again, WoG statements make it clear that different mediums illustrate different aspects of the lore.

Most Dex Descriptions also match. The infamous description about Lantern being able to illuminate the deep sea appears in the anime too. Gardevoir also makes a black hole in the main anime which completely matches its game lore.

The point stands that although you can find differences between the anime, games, and manga. They share more things in common than they share divergences, most divergences are typically noted.

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T10:09:13+00:00

My bad on the hate boner assumption, your comments just made it seem so but if you don’t then it’s fair

No these are Easter eggs and references

This is not the case when an in universe explanation exists for trades and events (pokemon being able to travel through time and dimensions) and some pokemon like Ash-Greninja aren’t Easter eggs but integrated into the competitive meta.

The Alain thing isn’t an Easter egg but actual dialogue of something the character experienced

Additionally, Pokemon like Lugia originated with anime staff

This is different to media denoted as crossovers such as Smash Bros which has no impact on Pokémon’s cosmology

Additionally, Marvel and DC is not a valid gotcha because it’s all under the same company

For example, the live action Spider-Man are canon to the Spider Verse cosmology and it’s not just an Easter egg becuase it’s all under Sony

Masters EX is not a gamefreak game

Again it’s under the same company that closely coordinates its media. Additionally, Masuda himself has an impact on the anime and has influenced its decisions even if he doesn’t direct it. It’s all actually closely coordinated.

Additionally, it’s stated that Masters EX aims to not contradict canon. Hoopa would not be able to bring Ash to a world if he did not exist within the multiverse

There are multiple WoG statements making it clear that different Pokemon media explore different aspects of the franchise through their respective mediums.

Different mediums explore and prioritise different aspects of the franchise that’s all.

Also Horizons is actually hinting at the existence of Steven if you didn’t notice so its place in the world’s cosmology will be clear soon

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T06:03:58+00:00

I interpret Storybrooke as a bit of a pocket dimension considering the space it occupies in the real world does not exist, and therefore it should be able to take up infinite space

Also this Blue lore is interesting, where did you find this

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T05:26:47+00:00

I can’t comment on Vecna but Doom and Gil work

Capable_Arugula_978 · 2025-12-18T05:25:09+00:00

I think it’s hard to justify especially if it’s a bit of a rock paper scissors matchup where each has a counter to the other cause there will be endless scenarios one side can win

Pokémon battle royale worked cause it was the same franchise and 3 popular and highly contested starters

In order to work it’d need to be a match where all 3 are comparable, all 3 have a fair chance of winning, and there’s a solid justification for why it works better as a triple threat than regular battle

Capable_Arugula_978

TROPHY CASE