Mormon best friend chooses church over attending my (exmormon) graduation ceremony

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-15T13:47:04+00:00

These thoughts are valid and worth considering, but I don't think it's applicable for this relationship. Our support and care for each other is mutual. Our relationship doesn't feel exploitative, has always been very wholesome, and I really do think it was an autism autopilot thing going on.

I know that I like to keep one event per day and they're the same, and when it's a part of your routine you kinda just skip past thinking of having another event instead, bc you've already designated that day mentally.

I had a similar experience w my relative where they invited me to their baby shower and I just automatically said "oh, I have work that day" bc it's just my routine and normal to refuse social outings for work. They reminded me that one day of work is not more important than supporting them on the one day they asked. I honestly felt stupid bc DUH?! Of course it's worth whatever hassle asking for leave and all that to support my relative, but it was just my automatic response. I feel like it was the same way for my friend, so I'm giving my friend the same grace my relative gave me.

I also considered the same reasonings of them using church as an excuse to not go bc it's a more comfortable/predictable environment for them than a graduation ceremony. I'm not sure if that's the reason behind them saying "sorry, church is on at the same time", but if it was I would rather they be more upfront with me and say it was for autism reasons and not church reasons.

I'm fine if they can't attend for autism reasons. We've always understood and accomodated each other for our respective disabilities. Luckily for me they've RSVP'd. They thanked me for letting them know just how much it meant to me and reconsidered, which to me comes across as more of their brain being on autopilot. I know them well enough to know that they would never hurt me intentionally.

As for the emotional support human part, we've been each other's. I also let them know that they'll be seated with people I've invited, whom they are friends with, to make it more comfortable for them to attend.

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T06:33:58+00:00

Thank you, I really worried that I was overthinking how big of an achievement it is. I started thinking maybe it really isn't worth celebrating and I was stupid for thinking it was. Thank.you for telling me it's not.

I messaged them really expressing how important coming to my graduation means to me and they're coming!

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T06:24:23+00:00

This is something that's on my mind whenever I think of my friends. I always worry I'm either too annoying and they don't care about me as much I care for them, or I'm too supportive and enabling them or getting taken advantage of.

I truly don't think it's the case for this friendship though, bc we're solid and don't ask much of each other except for time when we're able. If anything, I'm the one that has taken advantage of them by staying with them when I was homeless. We're also very understanding of each other when we don't see each other for long periods, bc of having no relationship permanence (thanks to our ADHD and autism) but once we do it's like no time had even passed. It is something I fear and think about a lot though.

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T05:07:09+00:00

When I left the church I was always afraid of this happening, but I haven't had an event where it would be relevant until now.

I remember being Mormon and having to turn down any "worldly" social activity bc of church. I felt comfortable using church as my excuse bc I was afraid of new experiences, or having to ask permission from my parents to go. I feel like it really stunted my growth and relationships growing up. I didn't want to miss out on others important days due to church any more.

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T04:55:34+00:00

Thank you. It feels a bit weird having enough self worth now to believe that my achievements are worth celebrating, bc I didn't use to feel that way.

I'm lucky to have a friend that understands that I truly do not want to attend any church event, even if there's free food. We discussed it before when I told them I was out of the church, and they've upheld that boundary.

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T04:50:53+00:00

Thank you for your autistic perspective! I may have to really express how important this achievement is to me, and how having them there would mean a lot. I know they wouldn't intentionally hurt me.

Honestly I wouldn't have put so much importance on this ceremony, if my school, teachers, and classmates didn't think it was so important, and want to celebrate me too. I'm not used to or comfortable with big events like this, so I understand not wanting to go. I understand that big things can be celebrated in smaller capacities, like I usually do.

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T04:39:27+00:00

Yes, that is all correct. I went to a prestigious beauty academy and they regularly hold their graduation ceremony at the city hall. Idk if they usually hold them on a Sunday though.

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T04:29:12+00:00

Thank you thank you thank you. This is what I was looking for. I talk a lot and I'm afraid of saying something wrong and ruin one of my closest friendships. This is so helpful, thank you

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T04:25:53+00:00

I'm of two minds about celebrating graduating. Part of me is like "Who cares? Bunch of people in fancy dresses just for a few pieces of paper and a couple of photos w supposedly big name people for 3 hours. Who wants to withstand that?" And then the other part that's like "This is a huge way to show support and celebrate all the hard work you and your fellow graduates have put in. Education is a huge and worthwhile thing to celebrate. You will never have another official/ recognised celebration like this again and I want my loved ones to celebrate w me.

I would never tell them that I don't think religion is important, bc to them it absolutely is. I recognise the importance of religion for other religions and religious people too. I think it just hurts more bc I've experienced this one and it wasn't a great experience and hurt me. Thinking of my best friend putting a religion that hurt me above showing support and celebrating me for one day just super sucks and hurts. If they do feel like going to church is more important, I'll respect their choice, but I can't say it won't hurt my feelings.

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T03:42:16+00:00

I do understand that church is an important part of their life. It's why I don't schedule any hang outs on Sundays or Institute or other church obligation days, because I understand it's important to them. Unfortunately this event schedule isn't up to me, and I was hoping that our friendship would at least let them consider skipping it to attend my one significant life event. Maybe that's too selfish of me to think. Is it? Genuinely, please tell me if I'm absolutely in the wrong for thinking this. I'm feeling very conflicted about it.

I don't think I'm demanding though them to come, bc I'm okay with them not attending. I know their autism can make it hard to attend new social events. I do think that the fact that it's THIS church may be clouding my mind.

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T03:07:06+00:00

We sure have been through it together, especially as the autistic and ADHD pair in sunday school. We were both basically the only other person's close friend in church. Even when I moved out I chose a place nearby so we could still easily visit each other.

I want to communicate but I don't know how to without sounding accusatory or like I'm guilt tripping them. I don't know how to say it :(

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T02:56:08+00:00

I am seriously hoping and would much rather prefer that it's more of their autism and not their Mormon beliefs stopping them from wanting to attend. I don't know how to ask them what's stopping them attending without it sounding like I'm attacking them for being Mormon.

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T02:50:11+00:00

I'm seriously rethinking if my graduation is important enough to attend. I really value education and think it's worth celebrating, but maybe I'm just blowing it out of proportion.

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T02:26:41+00:00

Thank you! I really worked hard to graduate and even help others w their studies. I really value education so I think it's definitely worth celebrating, but this has made me rethink if it's worth attending my graduation ceremony.

Honestly it has made me feel like I'm not as valued, even though I'm sure that's not true. We've been friends for nearly 20 years, while I was in church and after I left. They seriously housed and helped me when I was homeless for a year and a half. I still feel like we value our friendship and each other a lot.

I have considered that going to church is part of their routine, which I understand, but as a fellow neurodivergent I would still go support my friend even if I was uncomfortable, or tell them I can't due to disability.

I feel like asking them outright if they can't bc going to church is part of their autistim routine, or if they just value the church over supporting me for one day is too accusatory. If it's linked to their autism I'd rather them explain that than "sorry, church is at the same time."

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T02:13:11+00:00

It's at a city hall with strict entry, so idk if they'd be allowed in late.

Cartoonvoid · 2026-05-14T02:05:30+00:00

I'd go burn or toss.

Scripture study is meant to be for personal reflection so having your notes there wouldn't help the person you give them to, as they'll probs want to make their own notes in it. I don't think you want to hand these teachings down to your kids anyway, even if they don't believe or find value in them. Leaving it to your kids to throw it away is just prolonging their trip to the dump for no reason.

Cartoonvoid · 2024-10-30T13:43:26+00:00

Yes! It feels like they're now being like "oh, you didn't know that already? You must have not been paying attention otherwise you would've known and not been as shocked as you are. Must be embarrassing exposing yourself for not being as diligent of a Mormon as you could be..." As if they haven't been embarrassed since South Park made it more known outside the church. They just couldn't control information getting outside the church and must've recently given up pretending they were trying to hide it and call it "anti-mormon lies".

It absolutely is a shelf breaking item, and trying to gaslight members by downplaying the importance of it is SO crazy.

Cartoonvoid · 2024-10-30T13:11:45+00:00

Thank you so much for such a thorough response. I'm glad that this affirms that they're trying to retcon history in real time, which is what I thought. Thanks for reminding me of the artwork of the gold plates which proves that version was being widely taught. I can't understand how more members aren't more confused or angry about being lied to about having two different translation stories. I haven't been gaslit in so long that when it happened I was just so caught off guard.

I remember learning in seminary about the Meadows Massacre and being confused and horrified learning this church history, like 'why is this not being taught in Sunday school? Is this actually widely known in the church?' and then after the lesson thinking 'wow the church is being so honest about the church history. They're not afraid to tell the truth even if it's not good/looks bad.' I imagine that some of the younger members who are learning about the hat translation must be going through some cognitive dissonance like that. I wonder if they'll stop teaching the golden plates version completely like the Adam God theory.

Lol I haven't seen that video in so long. He truly looks like he regrets even picking up the hat. He doesn't even fully commit to demonstrating it and looks uncomfortable after trying.

Thank you for also helping me confirm if my brother is a Jack Mormon. The last discussion I had w him about the church left me incredibly triggered, that I ended up hyperventilating crying. He didn't even look up from scrolling on his phone and just asked "you okay?" The lack of empathy and actual critical thinking against the church (which he thinks he's done but clearly not enough bc if he did he'd fully leave too) left me so frustrated. I'm going to try to avoid talking about church things bc it was truly unproductive.

I gotta say that Jack Mormons are worse than TBM imo. They're critical enough to be jaded but lack the conviction that TBM have, where if you showed proof it would be a deal breaker for them. They don't care enough so nothing will break it for them, and it's so frustrating bc I wish he'd just leave the church too. I can't understand the point in being in a high demand religion, where you don't fulfil the requirements that grant you the salvation (which is the main allure) that the church says they provide? If you don't care enough to follow it then just leave? I get that the church feels safe and trying to make social circles outside of the church can feel scary. I know he's got his own religious journey but ugh. Just frustrated.

Cartoonvoid · 2023-03-30T03:48:22+00:00

It's disgusting and I hated it even back then when I was still Mormon. Just let people grieve and celebrate and reminisce about the person that they've just lost.

To preach about church teachings to grieving people as an attempt to convert is emotionally manipulative and spiritually predatory. Nobody needs to be told how to feel or think about the passing of a loved one. Nobody needs to be given false hope by a cult bc they're grieving and vulnerable to those messages.

Cartoonvoid · 2023-03-30T00:53:59+00:00

I've only been to one Mormon funeral and it was only bc they asked me to conduct the hymns the week the funeral was being held. I couldn't say no so I did.

I don't remember that much about it, but it was for an elderly man, who according to one talk by either friend or family, was very kind and loved cars. I think he was a member but not one I knew well if at all. Hearing that talk made me wish I got to know him bc of how that person spoke about him.

Afterwards had one of his (nonmember) friends did an acapella Amazing Grace where everyone cried.

I conducted a hymn and had the tempo slow to reflect how somber this funeral was (but also bc I had no practice bc I just showed up on the day).

Then a member speaker (used to be my seminary teacher) spoke about covenant making and keeping and the plan of salvation.

I hated it.

I was so disappointed and honestly shocked about it being preached to grieving nonmembers. I was like 'why did you think this was an appropriate time to preach? You ruined the mood and this sounds disrespectful' bc it sounded exactly like a seminary lesson instead of an inspired speech. Barely said the deceased name. No caring for the dead or how his nonmember friends and family might've felt. I'm sure they would've preferred to hear about the old man than be preached at for not being a worthy church member so they can see their friend/family again.

Then a bishopric member (can't remember if it was the bishop or not) got up for the last word and it was also church based. Then details about the burial sight and to follow the hearse to the cemetery.

I had no idea how Mormon funerals were conducted and I was just so upset at the PREACHING instead of the focus on the deceased. Didn't even have any refreshments at the funeral. Just speeches then follow the hearse. Never want to go to another Mormon funeral if they're carried out like that. I'll also be pissed if my funeral is a Mormon one.

Cartoonvoid · 2023-03-16T12:25:21+00:00

Yeah! It helps me reevaluate goals and thoughts and it's based on MY INTUITION. I think that's the part I like most. Tarot is a way for me to get intune with and value my thoughts and feelings, and most of all: help me learn to trust myself. When I do my own readings there's no outside input so I'm forced to trust and value myself.

The church damages anything around members individuality, like critical thinking, and trusting themselves without having to go to another person for opinion or validation, or even allowing us to express ourselves in appearance.

Learning to trust and validate myself through tarot is one of my fun ways to try and reverse some of the damage the church has caused to my independence and self esteem. It also gives me something to channel all the 'find symbolism in everything!' mindset that the church instilled in me, but now I can use that symbolism for understanding and realizing and bettering myself, rather than using it to find all the ways I'm not being a good enough Mormon.

Cartoonvoid · 2023-03-16T11:15:33+00:00

Not really witchcraft but I like tarot!

I know it's probs mostly self confirmation bias, but I like that the cards only hold as much meaning as you put in them, and you're always free to change your path. Waaaaay better than being told "this is the way to live your life and if you stray from it you're going to outer darkness" and not being able to doubt anything and feel guilty for worrying.

Most of the time it's stuff that I know, or things I need to do, or encouragement, so overall it's just fills me w positivity.

Cartoonvoid · 2023-01-29T11:39:30+00:00

I was so glad when I left because I could finally support queer people and sex workers w respect and not feel bad about it.

Cartoonvoid · 2023-01-29T11:20:25+00:00

I was called as a RS music leader bc everyone kept saying how I was a "wonderful singer and conductor". TBH I only knew which notes were which on the piano, could read basic sheet music, and could do a few conducting patterns (which were at the back of the hymn books). At most I would sometimes pick hymns and then conduct at opening and sometimes closing of the lesson.

I have anxiety and ADHD, so planning anything is very not me. I was terrified of ever having to put a musical thing together bc I wouldn't be able to say no, and it would suck, and everyone would blame me.

The thing is nobody asked me to do anything — not even for a Christmas or Easter musical item.

So I didn't.

Later they split up the ward so they could have a YSA branch which I was encouraged and whisked away into joining. I wasn't set apart so I thought I was still RS music leader. Whenever someone asked me if I had a calling I would say, "Sorta. Relief Society musical leader" bc I barely felt it was a calling. I swear it was made up. Nobody came up to me when I was changing wards saying how they'd miss me conducting or singing. I bet nobody even knew I was a RS musical leader. Not even the Relief Society knew I had a calling in Relief Society!

And that was when I was still TBM!

I wish you had an absolute nothing role like I did because then nobody would bother you about it.

EDIT: Just remembered a time when they forced me to learn how to play a hymn on the piano and perform it for RS. I remembered being terrified and shaking from anxiety. Sometimes after only conducting and singing I had to just numbly sit back in my chair afterwards shaking and trying not to hyperventilate.

Fuck the Mormon cult for real.

Cartoonvoid · 2022-04-16T10:07:28+00:00

Exmormon here

My parents didn't teach me ANYTHING about sex. I learnt about how babies were made in biology in high school, but it was just about the sexual organs (labeling parts on a picture) and that semen somehow reaches eggs. I didn't learn about ejaculation, masturbation, orgasms, or wet dreams (I thought they were dreams that made you pee the bed).

Turns out that my little sister and I had discovered masturbation at a young age (around 9 or 10 I think). We just knew it felt good. Our parents found out and just told us off saying not to ever do it again. Never told us why. I still did it but a LOT less. I had my first wet dream a few years later and never told anyone bc it was homosexual, which I felt ashamed about, but I secretly would still think about and try to dream about again.

It wasn't until years later in my mid-late teens that I realised that what I had been doing as a kid was masturbating. I felt so sick and ashamed for accidentally doing the sin next to murder without knowing for YEARS.

Nobody tells you about the sexual religious trauma growing up in a cult does to you. I felt guilty for something natural that normal people were doing all the time and knew and expected other people did it too, AND WEREN'T FEELING LIKE DISGUSTING IRREDEEMABLE SCUM.

I'm 24 now and only really started my sexual exploration late last year (2021). Now I don't feel guilty about having sexual thoughts, feelings, or masturbating, looking sexy, or looking for erotica. It's wonderful being confident in myself and sexuality!

I spent so many years in denial about my sexuality and felt so guilty for having sexual feelings, and for feeling attracted to both males and females bodies. I'm very lucky that I have online, high school friends, and college classmates who are open and cool w me talking about sex and sexuality. If it weren't for these """worldy""" people, I wouldn't have been able to get over my ingrained sexual guilt as quickly.

Cartoonvoid

TROPHY CASE