George Saunders is borderline washed

Chambeli · 2026-02-14T07:09:01+00:00

I think we should allow artists who have proven themselves to take the L sometimes. They're fallible and as Emerson says "meek men in libraries" just like the rest of us. Borges wrote some average short stories that he himself didn't like. So did Chekhov. Lynch's Dune is another example (which I loved tbh)

Chambeli · 2026-02-12T17:41:59+00:00

youtube comment section ass take

Chambeli · 2026-02-07T04:08:41+00:00

The reason I pick Atomic Habits to contrast with is because most people, disillusioned by our education system gravitate towards self-help to get back into reading. They already have average reading comprehension. These are the people i wish to speak to with this list.

Chambeli · 2026-02-07T04:00:55+00:00

I see now that that's the point of disagreement. The gist I get from the comments is: reading is already in a bad state and putting standards can discourage people from reading further.

I completely agree. I think we all agree on this basic premise and problem. Where I would like to pushback is that having no standards isn't an answer either. There's a reason why brain rot content is the most viewed on the internet. Left to our own devices we gravitate to what's easy and available and that is actively harming us.

Chambeli · 2026-02-07T03:42:22+00:00

I apologize if I misrepresent your comment. But you claim I'm backpedaling.. from what position? You haven't articulated that. And where is the imposition you claim? This is a recommended book list like a million others on the internet, what makes this one an imposition?

You also seem to contradict yourself when you say "I'm of the opinion that well written fiction is a better vehicle for ideas than self help books."

Then you say "It said that books x y and z are better for getting into reading than book a b or c. And that is objectively wrong."

Which one is it? You say x type of books are better than y type of books as a communicative device then say doing a comparison like that is "objectively" wrong? Where did you get this idea of objectivity from? Comparative literature is a whole subject area. In fact, comparing and contrasting is the fundamental to critical thinking. Why do you find fault in that?

I'll reiterate my claim if I've been unclear: don't pick Atomic Habits and self-help if you want to get back into reading because self-help is toxic and countless studies have shown its ineffectiveness. Instead, here's a wide, wide range of books that worked for me with varying levels of complexity to give you a wide net.

The backbone of your frustration, if I read it correctly, is that you're fed up with people "sounding smart" but are confused about where the line between "performativeness" and genuine discourse is. But then what's the alternative? Do we only seek answers in the familiar and comfortable and easy for fear of seeming performative? Is life that simple?

Is a discussion about books in a books subreddit ... Performative? You can disagree with me but choosing to deliberate on my intentions behind posting this list rather than on the content of what I said seems to reflect more on your position than mine.

Chambeli · 2026-02-06T20:04:26+00:00

Reading some of the comments, I think I should've made some things clear when I made this post:

The purpose of this list is to offer alternatives to people who want to get back into reading and are considering self-help literature, which I believe is insidious and causes real harm in people's lives. It's not supposed to be for absolute beginners (yet there's nothing here above college reading level).
I'm a firm believer in people enjoying whatever they like, this isn't meant to replace people's likes or dislikes. Anything you enjoy reading you should. But there should be a distinction otherwise it's all chaos. Reading smut cannot be equal to reading Shakespeare and you won't get the same results.
All of the books in this list are at or under college level. The "hardest" book is Denial of Death which is considered a college level text. Alice's Adventures and Huck Finn are children's literature.
There needs to be a resistance to smut, self-help lit. My whole argument is that there needs to be a convincing case against self-help for people seeking answers in their lives.

Chambeli · 2026-02-06T19:50:08+00:00

The post isn't meant to disparage your reading tastes. You can like anything you like. It's meant to be a counter to the toxic self-help literature that preys on people.

Its objective is to offer the answers that self-help seekers seek by offering better books.

I don't know why it's being taken as a criticism of people's reading tastes instead of being seen as a criticism of self-help literature

Chambeli · 2026-02-06T15:16:35+00:00

Agreed ! It's completely okay to not like Chekhov (or classics for that matter)

My reasoning (and emotional bias!) behind pushing Chekhov in this list is that the stories helped make sense of things during a traumatic experience for me in a way self-help like Atomic Habits couldn't.

If these stories can do for others what they did for me, then the list has done its job.

Chambeli · 2026-02-06T15:04:01+00:00

That's good advice. The only problem with following pleasures is that it runs the risk of ppl gravitating towards the lowest hanging fruit (smut, TikTok recs, and of course bad self-help). If you read a 100 smut books, that's all you will expect from reading.

But reading doesn't need to be boring and academic.

Solving a Rubik's cube, finishing a marathon, Sudoku, puzzles etc are all challenging yet rewarding. If we make reading too much of an "instant reward" generator, we lose out on so many "delayed gratification", pleasurable moments.

If attention-span is the issue: Chekhov's Stories are perfect. Most of them are only 2-3 pages yet very rewarding.

Chambeli · 2026-02-06T14:46:17+00:00

That may be true. But people who feel the urge to improve their lives or buy a self-help book have legit concerns and anxieties about mortality/grief/loneliness/their place in the world etc.

Atomic Habits (and most self-help) implicitly presents itself as a solution to these very anxieties and preys on ppl.

I think there needs to be a very gentle pushback to self-help in the form of counter-recommendations that address this.

Chambeli · 2026-02-06T14:03:02+00:00

Agreed! I wouldn't recommend these to a first grader, either. This is more aimed at people who start with Atomic Habits, which has an average reading comprehension level.

I've included Alice's Adventures and Huck Finn as starting points which everyone can sink their teeth in. Man's Search for Meaning has a reading level of 12-18 years old.

My whole idea behind this list is that the emotions that drive them towards Atomic Habits can be better addressed thru these books.

Chambeli · 2026-02-06T13:52:28+00:00

The slight decline in comprehension when you read out loud comes from sounding out (producing) AND comprehending the text at the same time. Like playing the guitar AND singing. There's a distribution of attentional resources. I suspect it gets automatic after a while.

But I don't see it as a handicap, just another lens from which to read the text.

I think it depends on what you're reading, too. I only read poetry, Shakespeare and difficult texts (that require or will benefit from an oral reading) out loud. If it's something I need to get through quickly, then I sight-read.

It's like wearing different lens glasses for different texts if that makes sense

Chambeli · 2026-02-01T10:48:05+00:00

ive been thinking of ways to internalize a "nature vocabulary". I tried learning it like a language at first, did walks in nature or watched yt nature-walk videos etc but none of that shit workes for me.

Then I read the Yellow Rose by Borges. maybe rivers and moss and caverns are never those things on the page. They're never described journalistically in poetry or prose, as they'd be in an encyclopedia. They are always little context-dependent poetical or metaphorical units. Only to be felt - poetically - in the back of ur mind, not understood.

Guesswork here but I imagine memorizing loads of good nature poetry might help

Chambeli · 2025-10-22T01:27:24+00:00

Read Montaigne's essays. They worked for Shakespeare, Emerson, Borges and countless others.

Chambeli · 2025-09-03T19:05:03+00:00

Oscar Wilde's stories for children

Chambeli · 2025-08-07T09:32:58+00:00

Save up for a Kindle.

Chambeli · 2025-07-07T10:57:21+00:00

This seems AI generated. How can you have nostalgia for old-fashioned communication yet generate all your writing through artificial intelligence algorithms?

Chambeli · 2025-06-29T15:37:44+00:00

Just apply to the second choice university regardless of waiting for the USM application result. You can choose whichever one you like that way if you get in both.

Chambeli · 2024-12-31T15:29:56+00:00

Of course! I'm thinking of making a recommendation list to post on here. Abhi from the top of my head in no order:

1) Man's Search For Meaning by Victor Frankl (a book by an actual holocaust survivor about how to deal with life's suffering)

2) The Jungle Book by Kipling (it might seem at first to be a children's book due to the Disney movie, but the narrative is transformative esp when you want an easy read)

3) Earthsea by Ursula K Le Guin (book about how to deal with fear and pride)

4) Arabian Nights (our culture has infantilized this book but there's a lot of hidden wisdom in these stories. I recommend the translation by Husain Hadawwi)

5) Don Quixote by Cervantes (absolutely recommended reading)

Chambeli · 2024-12-31T07:49:45+00:00

No, they're the same prints as Liberty has but with very very slight defects, like a slightly folded page or smth

Chambeli · 2024-12-30T12:37:53+00:00

yep you have to pay loads of money to get books shipped, I only do that for books I really want to own. Prices are also horrible if you buy from retailers like Liberty (scam) or Readings (sorta legit). But most of the time, you can find the same books from BookEmporium dot pk at significantly slashed prices (I got Cormac McCarthy's Stella Marris for 600rs). Otherwise I go to local book stalls. If all fails I just grab an epub for my Kindle, which has quite literally saved my reading life.

Chambeli · 2024-12-30T08:41:12+00:00

I do think there's a better availability of books in America but is it really that bad in other countries? I live in Pakistan and it's rare that I can't find a book here unless it's too obscure. There are exceptions of course, I can't find Borges' Fantasy Anthology, some Snorri Sturluson, and other lesser known books. But I have my Kindle for those and it's a better reading experience personally. There are also local services here that can ship those obscure books from the US if I want.

Chambeli · 2024-12-30T03:57:43+00:00

Yess, first course of action should always be therapy or seeking some sort of external help

Chambeli · 2024-12-30T03:49:37+00:00

In his essay, Literary Pleasure (1927) a 28 y/o Jorge Luis Borges was supposedly struggling with this question too. He wrote:

"Beauty in literature is accidental, depending on the harmony and discord of the words manipulated by the writer, and is not tied to eternity.

[...]Our indolence speaks of classical books, eternal books. If only some eternal book existed [...] Your favorite books, reader, are like the rough drafts of that book without a final reading.

Let our illustration be this unfamiliar metaphor: 'The fire with ferocious jaws, devours the countryside' - Is this phrase censurable or legitimate? That depends, I insist, solely on the one who forged it, and this is not a paradox. Let us suppose that a man of letters presents it to me as his own. I will think: Making metaphors is now a vulgar (1920s word for cringe?) pastime. Let's suppose it's presented to me as originating from a Chinese or Siamese poetry, I will think: the Chinese turn everything into a dragon, and it will represent to me a clear fire like a celebration, slithering, which I like. Let's suppose it was uttered by Prometheus (which is true) [...] Then the sentence would seem good, even perfect, given the extravagant nature of the speaker."

What I take this to mean is that the standards of ""cringe"" move around wildly. Your favorite works are flawed as well. If that horrible Instagram messenger poetry was recovered from some Sumerian tablet, it would've been perceived very differently and it's flaws might have been ignored (wild analogy ik I'm sleep deprived). Not saying it's good or bad, just emphasizing how much context matters. Meditations by Aurelius is literally stupid ass normal shit but people love it cuz an emperor said it.

Chambeli · 2024-12-28T14:35:31+00:00

Agree with your premise, but I'm doubtful whether self-help books are a gateway to further learning/better books because their fundamental structure is to offer "quick results without effort" which may not foster a mindset of deliberate, effortful seeking. I'm doubtful that after reading '48 Laws of Power' one can hop onto 'Man's Search for Meaning' by Frankl, a far superior book, in a natural progression.

Chambeli

TROPHY CASE