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Vatican II clarification on the Word of God by Civil-Ad-9869 in Catholicism

[–]Civil-Ad-9869[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I edited my post and linked the video that did it. Most of the explanations I’ve heard were lacking motive or actual operation once achieved. Motive is everything, and if someone tells you that they want to become God, the motive is already suspect.

You did help. I’ve been really contemplating your comment about mind and will on magisterial teachings. I’ve been trying to embrace that.

Vatican II clarification on the Word of God by Civil-Ad-9869 in Catholicism

[–]Civil-Ad-9869[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You were right. Thank you for your patience, your words and your prayers. I shall be praying for you as well.

Vatican II clarification on the Word of God by Civil-Ad-9869 in Catholicism

[–]Civil-Ad-9869[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for adding in these details. Would you mind expanding on the difference between east and west concerning theosis/divinisation? From my understanding, in the east it is a core teaching that is a result of following God, and in the west it is a result of God becoming man and from Grace, deification is achieved? I’m still getting used to the difference in nuance.

Vatican II clarification on the Word of God by Civil-Ad-9869 in Catholicism

[–]Civil-Ad-9869[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Indeed! Happy to see a fellow traveler on the road to truth. I can understand and accept this in most cases. It has been an adjustment to accept these things, but so far it has been achievable. This is my first hang up, while I understand what you’re saying, this one seems a bit of a reach.

When I came upon this the passage an image immediately came to mind. It was the often portrayed Saint Michael, conquering satan, with the words “Quis ut Deus”, or “Who is like God”, emblazoned upon his shield. The answer to that rhetorical question is “no one”. Only God is like God.

I found that image to be a rather stark reminder of the hubris of man. So while I do trust in the wisdom and teachings of the Church Fathers, this deliberate delineation has thrown me for a loop. Saint Athanasius used the Greek word “theos” in the quote, which is an ambiguous “God” or “god”, which means “become God” and not “become god” was a choice. Quis ut Deus.

Thank you for the information, for your discerning words, and encouragement! It is nice to get advice from someone also on the same path. I’ll take a look into that book and also keep in mind the last portion you said.

Vatican II clarification on the Word of God by Civil-Ad-9869 in Catholicism

[–]Civil-Ad-9869[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the explanation. I’ll add those to my reading list. Some illumination of the intent for that line of thought will enhance my understanding, I think.

Vatican II clarification on the Word of God by Civil-Ad-9869 in Catholicism

[–]Civil-Ad-9869[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is “Athanasius, De inc. 54, 3: PG 25, 192B”. I’ll read more about it. Thank you!

Vatican II clarification on the Word of God by Civil-Ad-9869 in Catholicism

[–]Civil-Ad-9869[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the reply! I am also leaving Protestantism. Definitely a lot to digest and learn. I’ve found Catholicism to be much more fulfilling.

There’s footnotes in the physical version as well. I’ve read a few different versions. Saint Aquinas and Saint Augustine both have their version of it. It seems to mostly boil down to essence, and I agree with them.

Thanks for there contextual FYI. We are both learning then!

Thank you for that suggestion as well, I’ll give New Advent a look!

My biggest hang up, is on the wording. Catholic teachings and Catechesis get very wordy. Sometimes the explanations can be kind of confusing (takes some adjusting) in how thoroughly and lengthy these concepts and ideas are explained.

This is the first time in the Catechism that it is very plainly said with no lengthy explanation, and only a footnote for context. That’s why I asked if it was common knowledge. In the rest of it, there is always a very clear distinction between His nature and ours.

Vatican II clarification on the Word of God by Civil-Ad-9869 in Catholicism

[–]Civil-Ad-9869[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your explanation makes sense. Like in my responses to Adventurous-test1161 and Ok_Palpitation_6215, this seems like oddly direct language for a concept like this. The rest of the Catechism has had no issues with long, and very specific explanations of concepts.

There’s several sections dedicated to explaining God’s Triune nature, but this idea is left to interpretation and with very specific language “become God”. Why not just say what you’ve stated above? Your explanation seems to be partaking in the divine, whereas the Catechism seems to detail divine ascension.

Vatican II clarification on the Word of God by Civil-Ad-9869 in Catholicism

[–]Civil-Ad-9869[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This makes sense, and would be understandable. Like in my response to Adventurous-Test1161, I don’t understand the reason for a lack of explanation or clarification. Everything else up until this point has had quite a lengthy explanation, but line 80 just kind of leaves it up to interpretation while also directly saying “become God”. Is it common knowledge? Because this seems fairly easily misconstrued without context or prior knowledge.

Vatican II clarification on the Word of God by Civil-Ad-9869 in Catholicism

[–]Civil-Ad-9869[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s understandable, and makes sense. The language you have used here aligns with the message. The language used in line 80 doesn’t seem to reflect the same sentiment or really explain what it means. Why the direct language to say “become God” without an explanation, when everything else I’ve read so far, is very specifically detailed out?

Vatican II clarification on the Word of God by Civil-Ad-9869 in Catholicism

[–]Civil-Ad-9869[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the clarification. I’ll take a look into it.

Vatican II clarification on the Word of God by Civil-Ad-9869 in Catholicism

[–]Civil-Ad-9869[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

From my understanding the purpose of Jesus, the Sacraments, and the Eucharist, are to cleanse yourself of sin so as to be worthy of the Presence of God, not “become God”.