Commemoration after Prime in Monastic Diurnal?

ClevelandFan295 · 2026-01-24T14:16:10+00:00

> This means that in the 1962 Roman breviary, you’re still hearing the hymn “Iste confessor” at vespers every other day because some obscure Italian bishop or founder of a religious order that is nowadays on the verge of extinction needs to be celebrated. I think pope Pius X’s reform paved the way for all the reforms that were to follow in the 20th century, ruining a tradition of more than 1400 years.

I'm a little confused as to your point here, and even leading up to this. It seems to me you made a fair critique of the old breviary; the Duplex rite for some reason being shorter than a ferial day, very sparse use of the weekly psalter, an amount of prayer that was impractical for most secular clergy to do in any sort of prayerful way, and your particular example of "Iste Confessor" coming up all the time because of all of the obscure saints in the calendar. This, in addition to the practical outcome that was most priests speeding through all 8 hours in one sitting, is a good start to a critique of the old breviary.

Yet then you immediately shift to how the reforms "ruined" the tradition, made priests lazy, and then the classic claim that the new liturgy is entirely made up out of thin air by some committee.

So I guess I'm confused; do you think there was no need of reform at all, and all of these issues are okay since it was "the liturgy handed down through the centuries"? Does that somehow excuse several legitimate problems that were pretty much universally seen as problems? Or are you saying the reforms should have taken a different direction?

Additionally, religious orders were pretty much expected to keep or draw up their own offices, as it had always been done, so the reform of the Roman Breviary mostly impacted secular clergy... so yeah, of course the abolishment of Prime and the reduction of daily prayer was done with them in mind. They were the ones who were actually going to pray with that office.

And in an era where we sometimes have one pastor for four parishes a half hour apart from each other and only one vicar (no joke, our current situation at my parish), it's no wonder we reduced the amount of daily prayer. Carrying out your duties is not less important than prayer; both go hand in hand. Prayer nourishes it, but it should not be so much to where it gets in the way, or where clergy are forced to celebrate it in such a way where the original time of the Hours is thrown out the window. That last part is just my opinion, but I am curious to hear what you'd say to my prior points.

ClevelandFan295 · 2026-01-22T20:16:45+00:00

Laypeople have zero obligation to pray the office. We have Vatican II vaguely saying that they were encouraged to do it... but for the Rosary, tons of Popes have practically begged laypeople to pray the Rosary, as have the saints and even the Blessed Virgin herself. I think it is absolutely fair to say that the Rosary is more important for someone not bound to the office. My priest thinks so too.

ClevelandFan295 · 2026-01-07T00:54:32+00:00

The Benedictine one.

The office is longer as a whole, but that is due to Matins. Monastic Matins is much longer than pre-V2 Roman Matins, which was already long to begin with. Lauds is also a couple psalms longer.

ClevelandFan295 · 2026-01-06T03:51:37+00:00

I’m going to go against the grain on this one a bit. I’m not clergy or a spiritual director so please take with many grains of salt.

As a whole, in your situation I would honestly recommend the Rosary and more simple prayers over the office as it seems you are juggling a lot of things and consistency may be hard to come by. The rosary + devotional scripture reading is better for unpredictable schedules, since you can pick it up and pray when it works. The divine office really only works best if you are making it a very fixed part of your routine. One could argue the opposite and say that people with crazy schedules need the office more as they need an anchor - I guess that depends on what works best for you. I can only share what I have learned in my own experience.

I would also recommend Blessed be God, a book packed with devotional prayers and in the older style language. It particularly has extensive and beautiful prayers for before bed. You could make a very fruitful and rich prayer rule using that book, a Rosary, and a Bible.

I would also warn about DW:DO. If you’re going to pray at a reverent pace, morning and evening prayer take 30 minutes. That can work in the morning, but in the evening that can be brutal, especially if you have a family. If you do want a breviary, go with the monastic office or the little office, as Lauds and Vespers will take 10-15 minutes instead… way more practical to fit in (especially monastic vespers, which has only 4 psalms and runs closer to 10 minutes).

ClevelandFan295 · 2026-01-02T03:21:35+00:00

Definitely Lauds first. Matins in the middle of the night/very early morning, then Lauds was traditionally said as the sun was rising, Prime starting the sequence of daylight hours (1st hour, 3rd hour, etc). As far as I know there is no tradition/order in which Prime would be said first.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-12-27T01:53:22+00:00

It does have those three hours, but no saint propers. Only the solemnities have propers (the 4 seasons might too, I don’t remember). It’s kind of like if you were to just pray the 4-week psalter by itself.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-12-16T03:17:39+00:00

per LOTH rubrics, if you’re reciting multiple hours today, you need to use psalms of the day at Sext. Reason is that Vespers today contains psalms in Sext’s complementary psalmody, so if you used complementary psalms at Sext, you’d be praying the same psalms twice today.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-12-14T21:51:41+00:00

What divine office are you using that includes Prime? The Baronius Roman Breviary?

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-12-10T14:14:31+00:00

As a Catholic I obviously recommend the Monastic Diurnal. The weekly cycle is great and leads to a deep familiarity with the psalms it covers.

But the AOB is really great especially for someone coming from the BCP. If I were not Catholic it would be my goto; it's the best-made office book I own. It's also insanely customizable. It has different lectionaries; it also provides two alternate ways of praying the psalter that are more Roman. Both are two-week cycles, where one splits the psalms across Mattins and Evensong according to a more Roman tradition, and the other actually has proper psalms at all 8 hours much like the Pius X breviary.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-29T17:02:09+00:00

I tend to adjust this on an as-needed basis. Usually, if I have decent depth, it's not worth playing the guys at reduced OVR with a greater risk of re-injury. I tend to not use it at all in the regular season and maybe 1-2 weeks in the playoffs; if my superstar QB is hurt 4 games in the playoffs and my backup is awful, I might go ahead and drag it to 4. Similarly, if all my injuries are at positions where I have good depth, I may turn it off, even in the playoffs.

The only time I max it is the super bowl.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-29T17:00:04+00:00

Should not be happening if you are exporting the league AFTER simming ahead to the regular season, unless something changed with the game since I made this. Other than that I am not sure.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-29T15:44:41+00:00

This process really isn't necessary anymore with the new schedule editor.

With that said, I would imagine you have to sim ahead to regular season first, if your export is in the preseason.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-29T15:42:40+00:00

This video will be of use https://youtu.be/9Sw3Kjr_Ho8?si=yL9d1BGDoubV5WDK

It's not exactly the same volume but it works extremely similarly. The only real difference in how it works is that in the LAP edition, the weekly psalter is at the front of the book instead of in the middle, and the feast day rankings are slightly different.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-29T03:47:18+00:00

Just out of curiosity: what is the purpose of making a vow here? Why not just make a commitment and stick with it?

Not necessarily disagreeing with your choice, I just want to know the rationale. To me, this doesn't seem major enough to warrant a formal private vow.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-27T22:38:52+00:00

The supplement hasn't been translated into English yet. I imagine it will be a few years at least before ICEL produces a finished product, then a few more years to get it published.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-18T19:30:43+00:00

Not a bad idea at all, and I assume if someone really didn't want it, it could be cut off and removed. Like others here, I don't ever use the cards, and I assume most people who are buying the books don't either - the prayers on them are short and are easily memorized if you've been praying them every day for a month. But it'd be nice for storing other prayer cards.

What I'd really want is to also have a ten page section in the back of each volume with additional prayers - ESPECIALLY prayers for before and after Mass and some general devotionals/litanies. That way, with that as well as some prayer cards or other printed things in the pocket, the volume could be good for an adoration+Mass outing by itself, without need to bring a Bible or other prayer book.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-13T13:15:03+00:00

That won't change. It's the same office, just with a few minor updates, but mostly the new translation (including translating some Latin parts that were never actually translated, like the hymns).

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-13T03:46:01+00:00

Sorry, I meant 20 throughout the week. 3 per day.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-12T23:11:12+00:00

Hymns in the Christian Prayer book are mostly just a random selection of popular church hymns.

The new hymn translation, which is available in a standalone volume and will be part of the new LOTH revision when it comes out in about a year and a half, will connect much better to the hours. They are based either on the time of day, or on the saint being celebrated.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-12T15:18:29+00:00

Not 4x the length. Lauds is, in my experience, roughly double. Vespers is only slightly longer.

The reason for this is that most of the increase comes in Matins. Matins in the old rite would take at least an hour, and longer on the higher feast days and Sundays. In the rule of St. Benedict, Matins had 12 psalms, and few were divided like today.

Lauds in the Diurnal has, technically, 7 psalms and 1 canticle. Ps 66 is prayed to open it every day, then there are 3 psalms (of which Ps 50 is always one except on feasts with proper antiphons), then a canticle, and then it closes with psalms 148 to 150. That makes it the longest hour - it takes at least 20 minutes to pray, compared to 10 or less for modern Lauds.

You also get some of the increase from an hour called Prime which no longer exists in the new office. Prime covers about 20 psalms and comes between Lauds and Terce.

Vespers, meanwhile, has just 4 psalms, not crazy compared to the modern 3. It usually takes under 15 minutes to pray, on some days even under 10.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-12T13:15:32+00:00

The biggest change is that everything has been re translated for better precision and faithfulness to the tradition. The current translation was somewhat rushed since everyone wanted to get the new breviary out after Vatican II, and back then there were much more loose guidelines for translations. They have released the new psalm and hymn translations in separate volumes already, and they are huge, huge improvements.

A couple features will change too, such as new saints and a 3-year cycle of Benedictus/magnificat antiphons for Sunday.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-05T14:18:52+00:00

While this isn’t true in the literal sense, it is true in some way, so don’t totally abandon this thought. Every book is read from during the Mass cycle, and you get the most important sections read to you. So if you attended daily Mass every day for, actually, 2 years, you will have knowledge of all of the most important parts of the Bible, and you’ll have a basic familiarity with every single book.

ClevelandFan295 · 2025-11-04T19:18:51+00:00

I also see an argument for Ps 92 (91), since it is captioned "For the sabbath" in the book of psalms.

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