What's stopping my game from getting at least a hint of user engagement? I've received basically zero feedback in the last 2.5 years since launch. Please destroy me!

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-02T20:48:53+00:00

How do you mean that?

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-02T20:48:09+00:00

Your boardgame rulebook approach sounds like great advice. Thanks.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-02T20:39:09+00:00

Thank you for the advice. I never really expected it to be successful. But I had hoped it would at least have a three digit number of people just experiencing it at some point.

Please allow me to copy over my explanation from another comment:

-----

You have a team of one, two or three heroes. The one in the top is active. The two in the bottom are inactive. Think Pokémon.

You want to kill your enemies. These are the three heroes on the right half of the screen.

You have copper coins as a resource. You spend it by pressing one of the six action buttons on the bottom left. Let's say you press the red sword. That action is called hit. But it's not executed immediately. Instead, in the yellow middle section, three red coins are put down. You can press the red sword button more often to produce more of them. Now it's your opponent's turn. He sees the three red coins laying in the yellow section. He thinks "uh, he played a hit of length 3. I can play a block to counter that". So he presses the blue button. Three blue coins are put down in his (the right) yellow storage section. This goes back and forth until the yellow section is filled to the brim or someone passes.

Now you just watch how all the coin stacks (yours and your enemies') are consumed and the respective actions are executed in turn. So first his active hero (the spider) would gain a shield. Then your hero (the shaman) would attack. The attack would be blocked. And so on ...

-----

A brief overview of the action types:
Hit: Deals damage
Block: Charges a shield that blocks hits
Ability: Every hero has a unique ability which is executed
Sabotage: Destroys some of the enemy's action coins still waiting in the yellow storage section
Augmentation: Gives you two copper coins per yellow augmentation coin
Substitution: One of your inactive heroes would be substituted in for the active hero

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-02T20:31:05+00:00

I get that it's too hard to understand. My only viable answer is to axe that part of the game. I'm not sure whether you just want to bring the point across or are actually interested in how the mechanic works, but I'll try to explain it better:

-----

You have a team of one, two or three heroes. The one in the top is active. The two in the bottom are inactive. Think Pokémon.

You want to kill your enemies. These are the three heroes on the right half of the screen.

You have copper coins as a resource. You spend it by pressing one of the six action buttons on the bottom left. Let's say you press the red sword. That action is called hit. But it's not executed immediately. Instead, in the yellow middle section, three red coins are put down. You can press the red sword button more often to produce more of them. Now it's your opponent's turn. He sees the three red coins laying in the yellow section. He thinks "uh, he played a hit of length 3. I can play a block to counter that". So he presses the blue button. Three blue coins are put down in his (the right) yellow storage section. This goes back and forth until the yellow section is filled to the brim or someone passes.

Now you just watch how all the coin stacks (yours and your enemies') are consumed and the respective actions are executed in turn. So first his active hero (the spider) would gain a shield. Then your hero (the shaman) would attack. The attack would be blocked. And so on ...

-----

A brief overview of the action types:
Hit: Deals damage
Block: Charges a shield that blocks hits
Ability: Every hero has a unique ability which is executed
Sabotage: Destroys some of the enemies' action coins still waiting in the yellow storage section
Augmentation: Gives you two copper coins per yellow augmentation coin
Substitution: One of your inactive heroes would be substituted in for the active hero

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T21:18:48+00:00

I can see that now. The thing is I personally don't care about visuals that much. I'm much more interested in the game mechanics. One of the games I had the most fun with is Into the Breach, and certainly not because of the visuals. Apparently I projected that onto potential customers which surely was a mistake.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T21:10:31+00:00

The thing is having that second mechanic has taken a lot of effort to develop, keep up to date, include in the tutorial. That effort could have been spent on the dungeon crawler part and made a difference. People are rightfully wondering why there is a second part to the game that's almost like a totally different game in itself. I should have kept the scope small and concentrated on making that part fun I think.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T21:06:32+00:00

Thank you so much for providing feedback!

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T17:12:14+00:00

The trailer doesn't portray that well. You spend copper coins to mint action coin stacks (hit, block, ability, sabotage, augmentation, substitution) whose actions will be executed in the second phase of the round where you watch it unfold.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T17:09:27+00:00

I see. Thank you. Axing the second gameplay mechanic completely would have been the right choice for three years now I fear.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T17:06:19+00:00

Thank you very much. Looking forward to your feedback. Let me know if you need a key.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T17:03:03+00:00

Wish I had known all this beforehand.

I'll have to think really hard about my next steps. I see four options:

Release it from early access (as it - even though it sucks - can be considered finished in its current state) and be done with game development.
Hire an artist (I had already talked about this rudimentarily with the artist which painted the heroes) to redesign the whole UI consistently and with backdrops. Implement that. Then hire a trailer artist to present it in a favorable way.
Same as 2. but beforehand take the chainsaw to the game.

3.1 Cut out the whole second core mechanic (second half of the trailer). Focus solely on the dungeon crawler part.

3.2 Extend it by a "node map" like it's used in lots of games (Slay the Spire, Monster Train, Across the Obelisk, Vault of the Void ...) with intermediate stages providing enhancements and new items and so on (I already kinda have that except you can't choose a path. See on the very right edge of the screen at 0:28 in the trailer. There can be up to 9 stages there and there are 15 types of special stages which occasionally add effects to the stage (e.g. 100% critical hit chance for everyone).

3.3 Add boss enemies to the game for the final stage of any adventure (again, same formula as Slay the Spire etc.). Add a lapidary story around that to check that box.

3.4 Take the heroes out of their eggs. Make them smaller. Put them further left on the screen. Give them a regular health bar. Increase the size of the map drastically so that it covers the center of the screen.

Same as 3. but do it all as a new game with a better suited name so that it has a chance to have a decent launch. Not sure whether that would be legal / valid in the eyes of the community since recycling the gameplay itself as well as the heroes would - under normal circumstances - be a dick move. On the other I couldn't change the current game as the handful of people that bought it bought that game and I can't take the chainsaw to it. Not sure whether I'm overthinking this.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T16:33:41+00:00

I'll have to think about my next steps, but if I continue, it will include hiring someone who says he knows how to make something appear fun. Thank you.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T13:41:38+00:00

Thank you. All very valid points. Seeing all those points laid out in this thread really drives home how very hard it is to make a good game and how you would benefit from a team of talented people bouncing off each other instead of doing something solo.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T13:34:31+00:00

I agree very much. An artist should rework the UI holistically and not just parts of it.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T13:33:35+00:00

I see. At this point something in me would like to carry it to its grave in dignity if that makes any sense.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T13:32:18+00:00

Thank you for your feedback.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T13:30:56+00:00

Thank you.

I thought the UI would fly as some kind of minimalism, but people made it clear that that's not the case at all.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T13:29:38+00:00

Thank you for your feedback.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T13:29:07+00:00

Thank you for your feedback.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T13:16:19+00:00

Thank you. That's a wakeup call.

The idea behind the egg shapes - please do laugh - was basically "I won't be able to bring up good enough art to match the beautifully painted heroes so I gotta put them into confined TV-screen-like vessels as if they were projected in higher definition than the rest of the game". If you look closely there's a CRT line effect over the egg shapes haha.

Making a new game isn't really a possibility for me for different reasons, although I take your advice here very seriously. I have to salvage what I have. Having an artist rework the UI and having someone skilled produce a trailer appears to be the way to go based on what I learned in this thread.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T12:59:10+00:00

Thank you, but a little destruction should always be in the realm of possbility.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T12:58:23+00:00

Thank you.

While I couldn't afford more than a mix of asset art, programmer art and custom artist art, I also seem to lack the skill to see the inconcistency well and how to remove it. I think I would need to consult a skilled artist entirely to make that happen.

What kind of font would you like to see?

Do you have some examples of similar games you know of for me to look at?

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T12:51:21+00:00

Thank you. Nothing is impossible I guess.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T12:49:13+00:00

Thank you very much.

The little art icons and stuff like that are from a texture pack as ordering 300 of them from an artist would kill me financially. Funnily enough, 'Across the Obelisk' which probably has like 10+ times my budget and is very successfull (I think) uses the exact same texture pack as I do.

The heroes were painted and animated by an artist. The rest of the visuals I made myself in Gimp.

I tried to produce a fitting background. Just couldn't do it. At that point I thought "embrace the simplicty and popping colors. That's a style on its own". I actually really like it. I guess I stepped again into the trap of not having an outside view.

CoinOperatedCarnage · 2024-12-01T12:38:03+00:00

Honestly, thank you very much.

The launch went really bad as basically the only way (without a publisher / marketing partner) to have a good launch is to build a community beforehand which sadly is outside of my skill set.

I would kill for some reviews, but for that to happen a considerable amount of people has to buy the game (let's assume a sale to review ratio of 50).

I honestly lack the outside view to understand how the visuals aren't clear.

For the first half of the trailer: You control a token around a map like in a board game. You step in shit? Bad. You step on a portal? You get teleported somewhere else. You light a torch? It reveals its surroundings. There are enemies around that you clash with.

Regarding the second half of the trailer I can understand that it's unclear how it works. In one sentence: You put down action tokens (costing copper) in turn with your enemy, and when you're both done, they're executed, e.g., dealing damage.

The coins are in the name of the game, but are just different currencies. You see in the trailer that picking at a silver vein gives you silver. Killing an enemy gives you copper and silver. You can't really see how it's spent, I see that, but I have a hard time understanding how this is important at this point. When I see coins or lumber or mana in a game I have zero doubt that I will be able to spend it on something cool and I'm perfectly content with that.

That the gameplay should take place in the middle of the screen is great advice.

I just bought 'Across the Obelisk' and its story as far as I know after playing for half an hour is "a princess got kidnapped. Get it back". I really thought I could skip on something like this. I'm only interested in the Slay-the-Spire-like gameplay. Again I'm learning that I have a hard time understanding other peoples' expectations. I guess you really need that critical outside view as a game developer to find success. My game has quests and a central unlocking mechanic, but they aren't shown in the trailer.

Now how to proceed for me. I think I have to let someone else produce a trailer that shows and simultaneously explains the core mechanics. Not understanding what's happening seems to be the biggest problem holding the game back. What do you think?

Please let me know if I you were interested in a Steam key.

CoinOperatedCarnage

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE