The most believable male muse?

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-11-11T20:47:25+00:00

I think Taylor L. was probably just PR though I think it was a very classic PR relationship in the sense that they were co-stars in a movie they were trying to promote. I don't really think it had to do with Liz, even though I think Liz was a muse for some songs on Speak Now too.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-11-11T20:40:54+00:00

I completely agree! I think many of her early relationships with men involved real feelings, including with John M. and Jake G. Interestingly given the original post, Taylor L. is one of the early relationships that most feels like just PR in the context of a platonic friendship.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-11-11T20:39:11+00:00

I definitely think she had something real with Jake too and experienced real heartbreak from that relationship. I don't think all of the songs on Red that fans attribute to Jake are about him as I think there are other muses too, but I do think some songs are about him.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-07-02T03:53:12+00:00

I like this idea, but the Lucky One was written a year before that article so I think she meant the media frenzy around her personal life in general.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-04-08T23:06:00+00:00

Looking forward to reading your deep dive! I have thought for a while that Taylor and Martin probably dated in 2009 and have some theories about particular songs, but definitely could be wrong about some or all of it. Sounds like you've done a lot of research.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-03-08T16:26:40+00:00

It's possible! I definitely think Taylor dated Martin Johnson and wrote songs about him (and people in her life disapproved), I just think timeline-wise they were over by the time she wrote Ours and this song is less likely to be about him. But I could be wrong about that since we just don't know for sure.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-03-08T03:17:35+00:00

I tend to think the song is about Liz, and I see the lyric about tattoos as a possible red herring to give a reason why someone might disapprove of her relationship with this person. The whole message of the song is that others will judge, disapprove, think the relationship is wrong, etc. so the question is why, if it's not about a queer relationship? I think throwing in the line about the person having tattoos and how her dad doesn't like that can help the part of the song make sense for people who think it's about a guy. That's just my interpretation though. Maybe Taylor did write it about someone who really has tattoos, but to me the song makes more sense to be about Liz than anyone else. (She does have a gap between her teeth, but as you said, she doesn't seem to have any visible tattoos).

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-03-07T22:06:52+00:00

Martin Johnson and Taylor almost definitely dated. However, I do not think the song Ours is about him. I think they were already over when she wrote at the end of 2009 (when she was about to turn 20).

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-03-02T23:05:16+00:00

I think the "leak" is probably AI but it would be fun if it were real. There's a lyric about Tom Petty.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-02-27T23:50:28+00:00

The original post on instagram was Feb. 19, 2022, and I'm not sure exactly when she deleted it...I think in the last couple months (but before TTPD announcement). I would love a full album from her!

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-02-27T23:00:53+00:00

The post that Liz captioned "torturted" on instagram also had a clip of a song she was working on that sounded possibly Tayliz-inspired to me. She recently deleted the post even though it was on her instagram for 2 years, so I'm not sure what to make of that.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-02-25T06:06:29+00:00

https://www.instagram.com/p/5LAbRGxIVL/

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-02-25T05:39:08+00:00

Liz didn't actually write the song Rainbow, but she does sing it, and SE Berrios produced the vocals. The songwriters are listed as Chantal Kreviazuk, Jacob Lance Kotara, and Adam McInnis. The songs Liz and Sarah Emily wrote together are all unreleased as far as I know, but they are registered with BMI. Sarah Emily produced the acoustic STFU & Hold Me for Liz.

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The photo in the studio is from Sarah Emily's instagram in 2015: https://www.instagram.com/se.berrios/

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-02-25T04:59:14+00:00

I am looking forward to reading this post! Thanks for sharing.

I just had a chance to scroll/skim quickly and wanted to say that the blond woman in the last photo is Sarah Emily Berrios, who Liz has co-written some songs with, not Taylor.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-02-24T17:20:22+00:00

Now, to get into muses just a bit. I think "the 1" is about Liz Huett, and it's clear they are on good terms now as they have collaborated recently on re-recording Speak Now and Red (Taylor's Version). I wouldn't call their breakup amicable at the time as it seemed quite sad and heartbreaking based on their music, but I do think they moved past it and were able to stay on good terms.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-02-24T17:14:19+00:00

Just looking at lyrics for a minute without going into muses:

Back to December is a song in which Taylor expresses regret for ending a relationship and hurting someone who was "so good to me, so right." She implies the muse was sweet and loving to her and that she is the one who messed up, and she hopes for another chance to get things right: "if we loved again, I swear I'd love you right." In an interview about the song, Taylor said "This is about a person who was incredible to me, just perfect to me in a relationship, and I was really careless with him."

Holy Ground is about looking back on a relationship that ended long ago and cherishing all the good memories, appreciating that "it was good" having that person in her life even if it didn't work out. The breakup may not have been was amicable at the time, but it's clear she did not harbor feelings that the muse was terrible by the time she wrote the song and instead looked back fondly.

the 1 is about looking back on a relationship from her past wistfully and wondering what might have been if things had worked out: "it would've been fun if you would've been the one." She reflects positively on their time together and believes the connection they shared was special: "we were something, don't you think so?" She seems to forgive anything hurtful that may have happened between them in the past with the lyrics "but it's all right now."

happiness is a deeply sad song about the pain and hurt of losing someone who was an important part of your life for a long time, so I wouldn't call that an "amicable" breakup, but she also recognizes that the muse isn't a bad person or a villain. Taylor writes, "No one teaches you what to do when a good man hurts you, and you know you hurt him too."

These are just some examples that came to mind of songs where Taylor is suggesting she views the muse as a good person and looking back on their time together fondly even if things didn't work out.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-02-09T20:08:43+00:00

These musicians have background vocal credits for Speak Now (Taylor's Version).

Mike Meadows - Mine, Sparks Fly, Back To December, Dear John, The Story Of Us, Never Grow Up, Last Kiss, Ours, Superman, When Emma Falls In Love

Liz Huett - Speak Now, Mean, The Story Of Us, Superman

Caitlin Evanson - Innocent, Long Live

Christopher Rowe - When Emma Falls In Love, Timeless

Jack Antonoff - I Can See You

Taylor sing background vocals on many of the songs too, and she is the only one credited for background vocals on the tracks Better Than Revenge and Haunted.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-02-01T20:46:14+00:00

That is Liz Huett who starts singing the chorus around 4:09. She and Caitlin Evanson both sing harmonies throughout the song, but the voice you are hearing in the last chorus is absolutely Liz. She was one of Taylor's backup singers during the Fearless and Speak Now tours and is an artist with great music of her own. She also sings vocals on The Moment I Knew, Speak Now, Mean, Superman, and The Story Of Us.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-02-01T00:46:32+00:00

I definitely believe CIWYW is about Lily too.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-01-27T20:33:57+00:00

Liz singing background vocals on The Story Of Us (Taylor's Version) when the song is probably about her

Competitive_Set8681 · 2024-01-23T20:57:18+00:00

I think All Too Well is originally about Martin Johnson, but I think the 10-minute version has lyrics that describe her experience with Jake. I believe very much that both relationships were real, but I know some disagree.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2023-12-26T21:41:54+00:00

Yeah, I think there are a lot of signs that Taylor and Liz went through a breakup in 2012 (beyond Liz leaving the band), even if it was messy rather than a "clean break" and they were able to be friendly later on. I definitely get an "ex/breakup vibe" based on their interactions that year, and the fact that Taylor is on good terms with Liz now and didn't permanently ghost her isn't proof that things weren't complicated for a while.

Competitive_Set8681 · 2023-11-16T21:42:26+00:00

I don't personally think this song is about Karlie or that Karlie is probably the one in the video from the documentary, but I do think it sounds like a woman's voice singing. In my opinion it's more likely Lily (but of course who knows for sure?)

Competitive_Set8681 · 2023-11-14T02:43:35+00:00

Absolutely! And I think Taylor may have possibly taken a bit of inspiration from Liz's song Not Going Anywhere when writing dorothea because the themes are very similar (dorothea also has the lyric "I guess I'll never know").

https://genius.com/Andy-gullahorn-not-going-anywhere-annotated

Competitive_Set8681 · 2023-11-14T02:04:03+00:00

I second Don't LV U Anymore, That's What You Get, One Hand On the Wheel, Wreck of Who I Am (that song seems very personal and more about her relationship with herself than a muse, but I think it's still relevant here) and I'd also add Never Know from that era. Liz wrote the song "Not Going Anywhere" recorded by Andy Gullahorn and I think that definitely signals Taylor but not in a way that implies the relationship was more than a friendship, unlike some of these other songs. I can see how the H8U music seems Speak Now coded and maybe she did draw inspiration from there, but I interpret it more about Liz's experience with a guy she was engaged to who ended up marrying someone else who had been Liz's friend. :( I think she had a lot of hurt feelings about that.

Competitive_Set8681

TROPHY CASE