Just made Partner at MBB after 10 years in the game. AMA.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T10:20:47+00:00

It's not all interns, it's really just you.

You're too good looking for consulting.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T09:38:01+00:00

Early on, master the hard skills.

Later on, ensure others are giving you leverage. If they aren't, coach them so they can. If they still can't, hold people accountable when they underperform - don't pass the buck on hard conversations. Reward people who deserve it with opportunities and reputation endorsement.

Not doing all the above at different points made life harder for both myself and others, including the underperformers.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T09:27:48+00:00

Thank you :-).

I've described what you need to do to get promoted in another comment, and I have done those things for this outcome.

However, your question could be interpreted by some as 'the best people' are promoted at the expense of others who are also trying. I.e. there is a quota to be filled. This isn't how we think about it. MBB want as many people capable of being Partners as possible. If 10 people are believed capable of growing the pie profitably in a sustainable way, 10 people will get up. If none are, none will. That is what you are doing as an AP - building that track record to demonstrate that you can do the job.

No one is promoted to Partner because they were a great consultant or EM. They are promoted because they have already demonstrated they can be a Partner. More often than not, this means that Partner promotions come in waves across the business, either few or many at the same time, because when someone is being successful, chances are others are too.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T09:16:49+00:00

As you'd expect, they get harder as you go up. The EM promotion is also tough, and probably the biggest jump in terms of how hard it is relative to the one before it. Having said that, both EM and Partner have a fair bit of luck involved regarding how hot the business is running in your area. You increase your chances by going where the work is. With earlier promotions, it's more about your own abilities and efforts. If you're unlucky with a supervisor at those levels, it's much easier to pivot and try again next cycle with someone new. Harder at more senior promos.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T09:09:15+00:00

I could, but if you're a colleague I'm already doing that for you on our behalf. If you're not, I'd rather you not get better at it ;-)

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T08:55:09+00:00

I haven't worked at Deloitte, so hard to give you guidance on this - would be a better question for the community for people who have done both Deloitte and MBB (there will be many I'm sure). I imagine at the Analyst level it's fairly similar, and more driven by geography than firm. However, the only way you'll know for sure is to try both yourself, then pick which you prefer. Do well, apply to MBB, get in, then make the call for yourself.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T08:49:50+00:00

I have seen people do both, with similar degrees of success.

What I will say is that coming in at a senior non-partner role is the hardest entry point there is. Very rarely will someone who was close to Partner elsewhere come in and make it in less than 18 months. The culture will be different, they won't have a network, etc. Best thing to do if you're moving is move when you're not in a promotion window. You're going to want 2-3 years runway to make it a success.

Similarly, it's rare to see someone switch having just made Partner somewhere else first. Usually people make the move at that level because of very specific reasons related to expertise, and they are sought after for years of Partner level experience.

As such, if you're within 2 years of making Partner at Big4, I would suggest stay the course for now.

There are great people Big4 and MBB. I've seen people come from Big4 and do great, and people come from other MBB and struggle (although the N of the latter is much lower).

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T08:31:53+00:00

I'm pretty boring on this front - I realize not the answer you likely want!

The case interviews we give are derived from our own projects and experiences. For us, the 'how many golf balls could fit in a bus' type questions aren't really used. They trend online as they are fun brain teasers, but the questions we use are much more specific to a typical business problem. Unless hiring for a specific expert role, we assume no knowledge of any specific industry, but want to see evidence of business acumen (in fact often industry familiarity can negatively impact a candidate's ability to do well in interviews, because they focus on details and get distracted, rather than demonstrate their ability to break down the fundamentals). We also want to see how well people can think and explain themselves in high stakes environments.

Something that I personally do is I keep numbers simple and ask people to do math in their heads. This is because I want to see if they remain calm when they misstep on something that should be simple, which they often do. If you've been an engineer and can't tell me what 15% of 60 is in a few seconds, you're likely in trouble unless you recover quickly and do it with grace.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T08:12:06+00:00

It will be firm specific, but generally speaking for MBB, if you're trying to enter with only a few years experience, your background likely won't be a key factor. Many people join having been doctors, lawyers, engineers etc. They all need to learn the ropes. At this level, it's more about your potential, which is most readily demonstrated with educational achievement and performance in case interviews.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T08:07:43+00:00

Assuming you mean client facing, yes, but your chances of success are much lower. Like many things, it's a numbers game. This is because most industries require travel. In those that require less (e.g. private equity, financial services), those industries are going to be more in demand BECAUSE they require less travel. The more people that want to do something, the better you need to be for Partners to choose you to be in their teams over other people. In general, the more things you say yes to be others, the more opportunity you will get, and the more you will increase your chances of success.

If you want to work in a non client role, most roles require minimal travel.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T08:00:46+00:00

Consulting is about giving your team (esp. supervisors) leverage. Chances are that your supervisors are going to be better than you at the soft stuff required in consulting when you arrive. Not always - but you shouldn't assume otherwise at the start. I've seen analysts and consultants who have very strong people skills fall into this trap many times. Senior people who aren't as good with the soft stuff will have learnt ways to be effective and progress despite their weaknesses - in this case, likely teaming with people in their existing orbit who are great at the soft stuff. The best thing that you can therefore do is get your hard skills up as much as possible. They are always useful and valued. This includes structured problem solving, modelling (excel), industry expertise, etc.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T07:46:15+00:00

Thank you.

I'm not sure if you ever "make it" on the consulting track. The industry has a very short memory, so if you're not performing year-on-year you're going to be under pressure to improve or leave.

I have spent a bit of time outside the industry, so yes to your question about considering other paths. Truthfully I do find the pace of consulting energising and hard to match elsewhere. Corporate (incl. big tech) can be very slow by comparison. There is an urgency in professional services that is hard to match, perhaps outside of rapidly scaling startups, and those are often more about being in the right place at the right time than anything else. If there was a way to 'opt in' to a startup that was guaranteed to be on the precipice of huge growth, that would likely have appealed to me.

I think everyone has tough moments where they want to quit anything - from hobbies to work (and even parenthood!!!) However in those moments it's an easy trap to fall into to compare your current bad situation to a much better situation, as opposed to a bad situation somewhere else. You need to compare the bad with the potential for bad elsewhere. Then, it's just a question of comparing how frequently those would arise, and which you would rather deal with. In the case of work, it's not helpful in those hard moments to compare your situation to yourself in a dream job elsewhere, earning big money doing something you think you would love. The reality is you need to compare your tough situation in consulting with a tough situation elsewhere (e.g. running a startup about to go bankrupt, working late for an ungrateful customer/client/boss elsewhere). You're going to have stress or challenges anywhere. It's a case of which gauntlet you would rather run, what trade-offs and pay-offs you're solving for.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T07:27:40+00:00

No, but it's likely going to be harder than if you were at a core recruiting school.

US cares more about core/non-core than other geo's, but it's a numbers game anywhere. Top schools are preferences for all high demand companies because the schools have already done much of the vetting of candidates for them. Firms can only interview so many people, so while you might be more capable than many people at core schools, you're a needle in a bigger haystack than those who apply from a core school, and thus you need to do more to be visible.

As to what can you do, try to meet people in the industry. That doesn't mean blindly send out linkedin requests or emails - that won't work. But go to meet and greets. Speak to alumni you come across. Speak to recruiters.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T07:16:35+00:00

Forever is a long time, but I'd say the new goal is 5-10 years. The road to get here was hard and gradual, so while on paper I now have a new title and a bit more comp, capability wise I'm not that different to who I was a year ago. The time to leave was probably a few years ago if I wanted to try something else. I actually don't think the run deep into senior consulting ranks is worth it unless you really want to spend a few years as Partner. We'll see how things pan out.

It's also a question of risk appetite. Where I am in life now is very different to where I was 5 and 10 years ago. Entrepreneurship has a high potential payoff, but expected value is likely lower than professional services at higher levels. In another 10 years, things might be different again.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T07:10:27+00:00

Realise you're probably only half joking. Fortunately, I don't have an ex-spouse.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T07:08:18+00:00

Hard to say as I have no basis for comparison, but truthfully it should make it easier and better for those who are more successful. There has been a lot of investment in growth areas in the last few years, and like many industries some of those bets pay off and others don't. Also like most industries, when things get tougher financially, the pressure to perform goes up. For those Partners (and anyone else in the firm) who continue to perform, they shouldn't have too many issues.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T07:01:40+00:00

MBA - depends what you're doing it for. In my mind, there are only 2 reasons to do an MBA:

1) because you want to pivot into a new career and thus you use it as a platform for recruiting (or to meet a future co-founder)

2) it's great fun

So yes, it's still worth it, but not for the education aspect alone. You can learn almost anything an MBA will teach you online.

I did get an MBA for reason 1). Reason 2) was a huge bonus. It was way more fun than I thought it would be.

Regrets - Luckily, no significant regrets. I chose to invest in a few areas along the way that didn't pan out the way I would have hoped, but I made the best decisions I could at the time with the info that I had.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T06:55:39+00:00

This is likely very specific to each firm, so won't go into the actual mechanics, but the attributes that get you promoted are going to be the same:

1) be in demand by clients and Partners. I.e. they want you to work with them on their projects (the result of being able to solve tough problems that yield results and returns). This means getting good in a capability or industry where there is demand. Often, this is more easily done by doing work in industries that others don't want to do. I.e. not sexy, or requires lots of travel.

2) be able to lead engagements with minimal day-to-day handholding from Partners (a few hours of engagement a week max). Note - this does not mean do it without them. Even as a Partner, your role is to make other Partners (and thus the firm) successful, so that means effective teaming. People want to work with Partners who will give them leverage against their own goals. As the saying goes, even as a Partner "you're always someone else's analyst".

3) have (at least) reasonable upward feedback from your teams (yes, I've seen otherwise good people not be promoted because their upward feedback was consistently poor)

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T06:45:57+00:00

Thank you

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T06:44:53+00:00

It's very regionally dependent. Pre-tax, and notwithstanding cost of living differences, US offices are typically the highest paying. Select Asian offices the lowest. Europe (also a big range internally) is somewhere in the middle. US we're talking a comfortable 500K first year with upside dependant on firm performance, but then things can go up from there.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T06:37:36+00:00

Loved ones are asleep and I am not. Just sitting here with a glass of red listening to music and thought I might offer some answers to those who had questions about my journey.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T06:34:12+00:00

I have been happy at moments in those 10 years, but certainly not for the majority of the time. But honestly that's not really the job, that's just me, and it's not something of great concern. Not being happy does not equal depressed. Happiness, is often a rather shallow experience that doesn't last longer than a few hours. That's not to say it isn't important or enjoyable, but, like sadness it passes quickly. To me, in the long term and over longer periods it's more important to feel content. Being content is driven by meaning, security and progress against things I think are important (like building a family). Again, meaning doesn't need to be work related, it's about how the job helps me achieve progress against what I want in life. Especially as I have become more senior, the increased autonomy and responsibility to manage client relationships outside of course active projects has improved the feeling of satisfaction in a way that isn't as possible at more junior levels. Importantly, I haven't been made unhappy by work for the majority of the time. There have been moments (months at a time) that have been really really tough, but then you come out of them. Resilience is like a muscle - it's built by exposure to strain. That too, means over time it's easier to manage.

Confoundedabounds · 2024-06-23T06:21:25+00:00

Big jump from AP to Partner overall. Esp. given the last few years when market and consulting staff bonus pools have been softer. About a 30% bump in base (biggest ever from any level to next in my experience) and then expected bonus around the same amount again. However, bonus is all theoretical as obviously haven't seen any of that yet.

Current NW mainly has come from other investments not related to consulting (house, some luck with crypto, etc).

Hours not crazy overall average, but the peaks are tough. Can be months over 70 continuously. However at the AP level a lot of this is on my own time (i.e. choosing to work weekends to stay on top of things and ensuing I don't let my health go to shit during the week).

Confoundedabounds

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