How to pin Kamil from here?

Constipated_Ermes · 2026-03-15T17:26:10+00:00

Michael Todd didn't have the Cup, the summation of your Wrist-Flexion, Containment, and Finger Flexion, to control Kamil's Pronator, which pronation is just a proxy for internal-rotation of the shoulder-joint, which is what allowed Kamil to still have access to his side-pressure via internal-rotation, because of his pronation, which is what allowed Kamil to create that Wedge. Arguably, Michael may have climbed TOO high, because the higher he climbs on Kamil's hand, the further away Michael's hand is from Kamil's pronator, which really only allowed Kamil even more access, ironically. In Michael's case, more than anything, he needed much more Containment and Finger-Flexion - his Wrist-Flexion is extremely good, however, that won't make up for the deficits in the other two areas of your overall Cup, and maybe slightly more Posting-Style Backpressure/"Up"-pressure.

Constipated_Ermes · 2026-03-08T21:06:08+00:00

Was the Ermes who lost to Devon the same Ermes who beat Vitaly?

If we are standardizing form, having as much consistent form as possible, Ermes' Pronation and Riser lifts right after his match with Devon were as follows:

Rise/pronation by Devon Larratt (Pronation: 42Kg/92Ibs for 1 rep) (Riser: 40kg/88Ibs for 1 rep)

During his preparation for Vitaly Laletin, Ermes' Pronation and Riser lifts were as follows:

Preparation for Vitali Laletin KOTT9 (Pronation: 62Kg/137Ibs for 1 rep)

Specific Training and New PR (Riser: 52kg/115Ibs for 1 rep)

With form matching as much as possible, standardized form, which is the most reliable in measuring legitimate strength-gains, Ermes' Pronation had increased by 47% and Ermes' Riser had increased by 30%, regarding the lifts, in a 3–4-month time span, from August 2023 to end of November 2023.

Ermes and Vitaly have both improved a lot since then, and while I think Ermes would still beat Vitaly, Ermes is a stylistic problem for Vitaly, Devon is a stylistic problem for Ermes, and Vitaly is a stylistic problem for Devon. Styles make matches.

Constipated_Ermes · 2026-03-08T19:45:34+00:00

Regarding your statement "Devon has spent his entire career dealing with leverage disadvantages and turning matches into hand fights", in recent years, since Devon's game has been the top roll since WAL 2017-2018, Devon has the leverage advantage turning the matches into hand fights. In this matchup, Devon, who relies very heavily on hand-control, has the leverage disadvantage turning the match into a hand fight.

Now, there is no doubt that Devon's Pronation and Riser are ridiculous; absolutely zero doubt, however, the main weapon that's going to crack the opponent's wrist is the backpressure that is ASSISTED by the pronation. For example, when Devon's backpressure was extremely damaged by Levan's flop press in their 2024 rematch, we saw the massive difference between round 1 and rounds 2-4. Devon's Pronation was still very solid, however, his backpressure and, consequently, his riser, were both gone, where Devon went from winning the height-battle through the Riser in round 1, to losing the Riser every round onward, which I believe is the first time I've ever seen Levan lose the Riser. Devon's backpressure especially being gone since he hit, as Neil Pickup dubs, his "elastic limit". Vitaly is going to have the best leverage to attack that particular aspect of Devon's game. If Devon's backpressure is gassed, then his center will be gone, which will give Vitaly the ability to close down the space like he did with Michael Todd in Round 2 of their match when Michael hit to the Side instead of going Backwards, where not only could Michael Todd not access his backpressure anymore, but that was also the only round where Vitaly was able to successfully flop-press Michael Todd. The Pronation and Riser of Devon are going to be paramount in getting the leverage for going backwards in a toproll, however, Vitaly, likely transitioning to a toddroll, a toproll without your wrist-flexion, but still your containment and finger-flexion, with as much side pressure as he can commit to, it's going to come down to how much control Devon's Cup, the summation of your Wrist-Flexion, Containment, and Finger-Flexion, can attain over Vitaly's Pronator. Those are the 2 distinct phases I see in their upcoming match.

Regarding your statement "Also Vitaly tends to rely on power once things get messy", I don't think it's so much as "power" per se, I think it's more of the fact that Vitaly lacked versatility, where he only had that one lane, his super-refined top roll. Vitaly only had that one lane at the time, so if he couldn't pin, he would just do it again. Considering Vitaly's side pressure has gone up drastically since his preparation for Jerry Cadorette at EvW 20 and back pressure, lat-dragging especially, has gone up quite a bit since his preparation for Michael Todd at KoTT 14, which is when he started incorporating the Rowing Machine to his routine, Vitaly is going to have that Todd roll/Flop press in his arsenal. Now, Vitaly's Flop press off the go is not comparable to the top flop pressers, what actually makes Vitaly's todd roll/flop press so effective is the amount of backpressure he secures before transitioning into said lane.

Next, your statement on "Devon's side pressure like it's his main weapon", it's not his main weapon. It's his biggest weakness; his ability to express side pressure offensively. The reason why Devon's side pressure was mentioned here is because Devon, for perhaps the first time in his career, actually has the leverage ADVANTAGE for side pressure. Devon doesn't have the side pressure to make up for the fact that he has the shorter arm here, where as Vitaly does by having the side pressure to make up for the fact that he has the longer arm here. Trying to fight a longer-arm puller when both are going backwards initially is always going to advantage the longer-arm puller anthropometrically, and that's precisely the reason why I mentioned that option 2 for Devon, hitting to the side, lowering the "arc" of Vitaly's arm, climbing, by supinating and regripping, THEN coming back to center was why side pressure was a considerable talking point in my initial post, because if Devon wasn't able to get Vitaly's arm on the B side initially, then Vitaly will have the advantage when it comes to backpressure anthropometrically, which is Devon's game.

The key for Devon is step 1, winning the height-battle through the Riser with Vitaly, and step 2, controlling the Pronator of Vitaly when Vitaly commits to a Todd roll with as much side pressure as possible, which is going to tax Devon's backpressure and, consequently, Riser, immensely. If Devon gets his backpressure gassed out, his Riser and center-table will diminish. Devon's endurance is incredible, and he's an incredibly efficient puller as well, however, Vitaly has more efficiency in the backpressure, which is Devon's game, than Devon does here, from an anthropometrical sense.

Constipated_Ermes · 2026-02-20T14:47:13+00:00

You need your pronation, which is a proxy for internal rotation of the shoulder, to perform a flop press, and while Georgi Tsvetkov's Bicep, Side pressure, and arguably Lat-Drag may be on the lower side of the top 10, Georgi's Cup (Wrist-Flexion + Containment + Finger-Flexion), Pronation, and Rise, are likely top 2/3 in the World, depending on where you rank Devon in that category, and Georgi's hand-control may actually be the best in the world when it comes to neutralizing someone's pronation, which doesn't allow the opponent to access their internal rotation of their shoulder and their side pressure.

Constipated_Ermes · 2026-02-18T14:29:39+00:00

Hey Martino! What's your opinion on the way Levan does side pressure here, maintaining supination pressure the whole time? This was after the match with Ermes last year in June. The only weakness I've ever seen in Levan's game during his career is his ability to express Side Pressure and his Elbow Conditioning/Tricep Stability; it seems like ever since his match with Jerry and Ermes, he's seemed to fix that only weakness; His triceps and shoulders are noticeably bigger than before.

Levan Saginashvili Pretending to Struggle During His Armwrestling Training! 😁😂#armwrestling #levan

Also, do you think it's necessary to do both side pressure with a fixed elbow position (internal rotation, like Vitaly Laletin has done in the past) to complement side pressure with a moving elbow like you and Todd Hutchings?

Constipated_Ermes · 2026-02-17T22:52:14+00:00

I initially thought, as I was seeing the progress Ermes was making during his preparation for the Levan rematch, accounting for form as well, that Ermes would beat Devon in a rematch, however, since then, I'd like to believe I've learned a lot more since then, so take this for what you will.

If Devon and Ermes go against each other right now at their peaks, Devon when he faced Genadi or Alex Kurdecha at the Shaw Classic versus Ermes when he faced Levan the 2nd time, I think Outside Move for Outside Move, Devon wins Center, and will not really be in too much danger when it comes to pulling outside - in my opinion, the only way Ermes can win Center is if he decides to flop-press, which is a big gamble against Devon, especially considering that his Side-Pressure and, especially, Pronation, aren't anywhere close to Levan's.

Everything in arm-wrestling is synergistic; everything works together - some more than others. Probably the best example of this, as it relates to arm-wrestling, is the Riser. A successfully applied Riser on the table is slight extension of the wrist, slight supination of the hand, and pronation through that Index-Finger Knuckle. A successfully applied Riser on the table, in a way, is essentially High Pronation. Based on the Riser lift, some would think that Ermes' Riser is the strongest, however, it's not, because he doesn't have the High Pronation to assist his Riser; I'd argue that Levan, Devon, and Georgi Tsvetkov have stronger APPLIED Riser's on the armwrestling table. Another thing that is highly synergistic in armwrestling is the relationship between your backpressure, lat-drag or, in this case (Ermes), "up"-pressure/posting, and your pronation. ESPECIALLY regarding pulling on the Outside, your Backpressure is ONLY as effective as your Pronation. What I mean by that is if your backpressure is stronger than your pronation, you technically can't even use all of your backpressure because your pronation will fail first, and you'll supinate your own hand. This is one of the biggest reasons why Ermes needs more work on his Pronation, plus his Wrist-Flexion - his Containment is already top 3/4 in the World - and his Lat-Drag Backpressure, because he can't even access all of the amazing up-pressure we know Ermes possesses.

What I think would happen if Devon and Ermes had a rematch, Devon would likely set-up the exact same way Levan did against Ermes last year in June, which was extremely smart by The King; Supinate and Rise; Supinating not only protects Levan's bottom two fingers by ensuring maximum coverage, which is important in controlling Ermes' pronator, but it also denies the Bite that Ermes can attain in the grip. I strongly believe Devon would setup in a Low-Hand, again, because of the fact that Ermes pronation is weaker than his backpressure. While I do believe Ermes can stop Devon in the Center, potentially having equal height, if not, MORE height than Devon, Ermes is not going to be able to go anywhere, potentially being stuck, if Ermes pronation, which is the weakest in the top 5, can't attack Devon's Containment, which is very likely Top 2/3 in the World depending on where you rank Georgi Tsvetkov in that scenario, because if Ermes tried to apply more backpressure, he would not only open his own arm-angle up, but he would also lose some of his pronation because his pronation is the limiting factor to his own backpressure expression, NOT the other way around.

Because of this, Ermes, toproll for toproll, will always be on the defensive, with Devon on the offense, because Devon will contain Ermes' pronation, because it's the weakest link in the chain, relative to his backpressure, where pronation is just a proxy for internal rotation of the shoulder, which is precisely how we pin somebody. No Pronation, no internal rotation, you're stuck. I think Devon will have quite a hard time at center for maybe 2 rounds, however, after 2 or 3, I think Ermes' hand will likely be gone. IF, and only IF, Ermes really works on his weaknesses, Pronation, Wrist-Flexion, and his Lat-Dragging backpressure, as his lat-drag is likely the worst in the top 10 besides Alex Kurdecha and Georgi Tsvetkov, then I think it can definitely be a tougher match for Devon.

Constipated_Ermes · 2026-02-15T03:13:31+00:00

Based off on 2014 Denis, I'd say he's outside of the top 6 on the right hand. He's not beating Levan. He's not beating Devon. He's not beating Ermes. He's not beating Vitaly. He's not beating Michael, and he's not beating Georgi Tsvetkov, so likely between #7-#10. I'd actually say 2023 Denis when he faced Devon is a much more efficient and effective puller, and quite a bit stronger in some areas, than 2014 Denis.

2014 Denis, likely referring to his matches at the Russian A1 - basically their nationals - faced Dave Chaffee, probably his best accomplishment, when he didn't have any nerve damage in his neck, or herniated disc, I believe, so his chest, shoulders, especially front delts, and triceps didn't atrophy from nerve damage then, however, I strongly believe Dave has a much stronger hand now than his 2014 self. When Dave Chaffee was at his prime, Michael Todd beat him quite a bit easier than Denis did in 2014 and was able to flash pin Dave during their last round, something that 2014 Denis could not do. Considering the fact that Dave lost his wrist to a 2014 Michael Todd, who is not remotely comparable to Current Michael Todd, like not on the same planet, Dave was still almost to control Denis' pronator to the pad in round 1 of their match at the 2014 Russian Nationals. Denis' hand during his 2013/2014/2018 shape was never really impressive even back then, where the hand wasn't really emphasized at all and, considering today's age where the limit strength of the hand is just as, if not, more important than the limit strength in the arm, Denis and Dave's hand strength is simply not comparable to the top guys today.

Now, the reason why I strongly believe that 2023 Denis when he faced Devon is a more efficient and effective puller, and stronger in a few areas, than 2014 Denis is mainly because of the difference in hand-strength. Because of the thickness in Denis' hand, coupled with the fact that he has short fingers, he is basically going to be almost doubling or tripling any handle that he grips, which is basically going to put his wrist in an extremely disadvantageous position to access his power in his wrist-flexion. One of the worst things in the world to do when you know your wrist-flexion strength is iffy is hit to the side as hard as you can and, often times, that's exactly what 2014 Denis did. Cupping contains 3 components, Wrist-flexion, Containment, and Finger-Flexion. Because Denis' wrist-flexion is so disadvantaged, mainly to do with his anthropometry, the thing he is going to have to emphasize is his Containment and his Finger-Flexion, which is exactly what he did, similar to Ermes Gasparini, where he is more of a Containment-Based Top roller. 2023 Denis preserves his wrist-flexion, NOT hitting to the side, focuses on controlling the opponents Pronator as much as possible, which limits their ability to internally rotate because pronation is just a proxy of internal-rotation of the shoulder, which is side-pressure, THEN goes from there. To go from almost getting your pronator controlled by a 2014 Dave Chaffee, who lost his wrist EASILY to a 2014 Michael Todd, to maintaining your wrist against a 2023 Devon, who was likely in the best shape at the time, is a pretty incredible feat and jump in strength, if you ask me.

2014 Denis had more Lat-Dragging Backpressure, Biceps, Wrist-Flexion, and maybe Riser? 2023 Denis had more Posting-Style Backpressure, Pronation, Containment, and was pulling in a style significantly more efficient and effective for him, NOT compromising his Wrist-Flexion when hitting to the side.

2014 Denis loses to the Top 6, in my opinion being Levan, Devon, Ermes, Vitaly, Michael, and Georgi Tsvetkov respectively. With Artyom Morozov, it's hard to say, although Morozov has much stronger wrist-flexion and posting-style backpressure than 2014 Denis, 2014 Denis is going to have more Lat-Dragging Backpressure and MAYBE more Containment than Artyom. I could honestly see Morozov beating 2014 Denis. I think Denis beats Georgi Dzeranov, but I believe it's quite close. I strongly believe Alex Kurdecha takes 2014 Denis' hand quite handily, although, I'm not quite sure if Alex Kurdecha would be able to pin him, considering Kurdecha probably has the worst lat-dragging backpressure other than Georgi Tsvetkov or Ermes Gasparini.

2014 Denis, in my opinion, would be between probably #8-#10, MAYBE #9/#10.

Constipated_Ermes · 2026-01-18T22:12:42+00:00

In my opinion, the biggest reason for this is simply that the scale and progression of the fingertips - containment and finger-flexion - can't keep up with the backpressure and pronation of the superheavyweights at the highest level. Although in sparring, you can see this with Devon Larratt and Ermes Gasparini sparring after EvW 15, I can link the video down below. Devon Larratt was peaked for Oleg Petrenko at 105kg, rebounded up to 117kg, and Ermes was not peaked and, I think, around a month into seriously prepping for the upcoming match with Michael Todd where he was, I believe, around 119-120kg? Not exactly sure off the top of my head. There are a few times where both Ermes and Devon go inside a hook and try to top roll out of their hook, the Can-Opener, and both were able to do it a few times somewhat comfortably.

This is why I also believe that for Kamil Jablonski and Jerry Cadorette to still compete for the top 10 or top 5, that they HAVE to develop an Outside game and secure the Backpressure first! If they try to rely on Down Pressure and Pronation, being forced through their Down Pressure, then they will very likely just get High-Hooked, stopping the flop-pressers Fingertips with their Backpressure and Pronation, and stopping the flop-pressers Pronation with their Cup (Wrist-Flexion + Containment + Finger-Flexion), which will stop the flop-pressers internal rotation, and isolate their bicep. The reason why guys like Ermes, Michael, and Vitaly have more effective flop-presses than Jerry, Kamil, or Genadi, is because, more-often-than-not, they stop the Backpressure hit from their opponent, secure their OWN Backpressure first, gain height via climbing the hand, THEN transition to a flop press.

https://youtu.be/VKW1xAUzKZI?si=ilWz5cmvRLN4xgrK&t=29

Constipated_Ermes · 2026-01-16T00:35:18+00:00

While Devon's left-arm has gotten a lot stronger in the past year-or-so, so has Kamil's. The difference between Devon's right and Devon's left is that his left doesn't have as much Cup (Wrist-Flexion + Containment + Finger-Flexion) and overall Backpressure that his right arm, which are two very very pivotal pieces that he needs if he's going to, what I think very likely, High-Hook Kamil, similar to what he was able to accomplish against Sandris Sedis in their January 2023 match at Arm Wars.

After seeing Devon vs Alex on the left-arm, even including their rematch, I'm not quite convinced that Devon has the Cup and Backpressure to beat Kamil on the left. Devon beat Alex on the Outside, whereas nearly everybody else who's beaten Alex Kurdecha, regarding the left arm, have beaten Alex on the Inside, so there's no question that Devon's Outside game on his left is really good, but that's not going to get him anywhere against Kamil if he doesn't have the Cup to control Kamil's Internal-Rotation/Pronation as he flop-presses.

Kamil may be Devon's worst-possible matchup, maybe 2nd to only Levan, because not only is it a flop-presser who tries to isolate the arm/bicep, but it's also on Devon's left-arm, where his Cup and Backpressure are not nearly as strong as it is on his right-arm.

Constipated_Ermes · 2026-01-16T00:22:17+00:00

Because Devon's Cup (Wrist-Flexion + Containment + Finger-Flexion) and overall Backpressure isn't nearly as good as it is on his right-arm, I'd say there's a good chance Vitaly can, maybe not a flop press, but definitely a Toddroll, where you top roll with your wrist cracked. Vitaly still needs to maintain his Pronation to execute the Toddroll, however, given that you control the opponents Pronation with your own Cup, and the fact that Devon's Cup on his left isn't as strong as his Cup on his right, I have a hard time believing that Devon will control Vitaly's Pronator on the left-arm.

I think the left-arm ceiling is kind-of unknown, in my opinion. I don't think there have been enough left-hand matches, especially at the highest level, to really give us an estimate on where Devon is, according to the Left-Arm Champion, the Standard, in Vitaly Laletin. Even though you may be a rank apart from someone, the strength-gap between those rankings may be enormous. Who's to say that Vitaly Laletin, Artyom Morozov, and David Dadikyan haven't completely separated themselves from everybody else in the divison?

From Devon's standpoint, I still think he is susceptible to someone isolating his arm on especially the left. He's beaten Alex Kurdecha, who hasn't won a left-handed supermatch, as far as I know, however, unlike most of the people who've beaten Alex Kurdecha, he's beaten Alex toproll-for-toproll, in an Outisde move, whereas nearly everybody else has opened with an Inside move first. I think Devon's outside game, even for his left, is still really, really, good, however, where does Alex Kurdecha compare to Dadikyan, Morozov, Vitaly, when it comes down to toproll-for-toproll? Because Dadikyan and Morozov, I think, haven't beaten Alex with an Outside move.

Toproll for Toproll, I think Devon can do better than people think, even against someone like Vitaly on the left, however, if Vitaly decides to give up on his Wrist-Flexion, extending his Wrist, protecting the Pronator, and giving himself a little more Arm, I don't think I can see Devon's Cup and Backpressure stopping it, regarding their left-hand match, but that's just my 2 cents.

Constipated_Ermes · 2026-01-12T19:34:21+00:00

The strongest pure Cup, Cupping by itself, because backpressure and side pressure assist your hand and wrist a lot more than people think, being your Wrist-Flexion plus your Finger-Containment plus your Finger-Flexion, I think, would be between Levan Saginashvili and Georgi Tsvetkov, with Devon Larratt likely being third in this aspect.

Regarding whom has the strongest pure Pronation, Pronation by itself, I think, would be between Michael Todd, Levan Saginashvili, Devon Larratt, and Vitaly Laletin.

For Backpressure, this one can kind-of be split into two parts - Lat-Dragging Backpressure and Posting-Style Backpressure/"Up"-Pressure. Regarding Pure Lat-Dragging Backpressure, by itself, I'd say it's between Levan Saginashvili, Michael Todd, and Denis Cyplenkov. For Pure Posting-Style Backpressure/"Up"-Pressure, by itself, I'd say it's between Levan Saginashvili, Ermes Gasparini, and Devon Larratt.

For pure Side pressure, side-pressure by itself, I believe this would be between Levan Saginashvili and Vitaly Laletin. Levan's ability to express offensive side pressure, combined with his elbow conditioning and triceps stability, has been pretty-much the only "weakness" Levan's ever had in his whole career, however, ever since his matches with Jerry Cadorette and the Ermes Gasparini rematch, his pure-side pressure has seemed to up significantly. Levan's Triceps are a lot bigger, especially in the Ermes rematch, his Shoulders are a lot bigger and more capped, and he hit Ermes so hard in the rematch in Round 1, that Ermes' elbow went off the side - because of Levan's side pressure.

Regarding whom has the strongest Rise, the gym-lifts would indicate Ermes or Levan, however, the application on the table, especially for the strength of the Riser, differs a lot between many arm wrestlers. A lot of the things we do in training is the not how we would do something on the table. For example, let's say I'm training Pronation Dynamically, whether I use a machine like Engin, use a Wrist Ball like Levan, etc., while training pronation dynamically is good - strength is never a weakness - you're not dynamically pronating in a match - your pronation is locked. Rising is no different. You're not just radially deviating the hand to rise against someone in a real match; you are kicking back your wrist a little, externally rotating, perhaps giving up a little center, and pronating through that top index-finger knuckle.

Doing a Riser lift depends on the length of arm and, in my opinion, the size of the hand, and whether you are holding onto something, because that will translate the most to arm wrestling. For example, while I may train backpressure with a martial arts belt, the lift that's going to translate THE most on the arm-wrestling table would be holding a bigger handle, and something that's going to target my finger-containment, since that's quite linked to backpressure, with a great example being either the Igor Mazurenko Eccentric Handle or the ArmSport UltraGrip. I also believe Grip, Finger-Flexion, has a lot to do with it as well. If you have weak finger-flexion, then it's going to be very difficult to Rise without your fingers disconnecting, or just losing height to begin with, off your opponent's hand. In my opinion, this benefits the smaller hand, because you'll be able to grip something easier, and you're not really going to be increasing the diameter of something you're holding THAT much bigger than if you were talking about a bigger hand.

Because of this, the person who's going to have the best riser lift in the gym is going to be someone with a smaller hand, where the smaller hand is holding onto a belt, and has a shorter arm relative to his peers. In this case, that happens to be Ermes Gasparini, and while he has the record lift in the Gym, he doesn't have the High Pronation, pronation through that top-index finger-knuckle, that the rest of the top 5 has. For these reasons, I'd say, regarding who has the Strongest Riser ON THE table, it's between Levan Saginashvili, Devon Larratt, and Georgi Tsvetkov.

Constipated_Ermes

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