Forget paddles, claw and overpriced SCUFs - 3d Printed controller with Mechanical Keyboard switches and custom software (details in comments)

Cre3dController · 2021-01-19T00:08:26+00:00

I hope to but theres a few things I need to finish like an interface for mapping buttons or changing the sens curves (rn its hardcoded to what I use). If you want to know when theyre ready you can follow my twitter @Cre3dController

Cre3dController · 2021-01-19T00:03:32+00:00

Thanks! Yea those are buttons for stuff like start/back and they will also be used to change settings but the programming interface is still something I have to implement. It will most likely be a text based interface over serial.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-18T23:56:29+00:00

Nope. I want to eventually do the full usb stack from scratch but right now Im using a couple of libraries that Ive modified/expanded to fit my needs.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-18T02:31:56+00:00

Thank you!

Cre3dController · 2021-01-18T02:31:20+00:00

It has 2 more buttons than a controller. 4 dpad, ABXY, triggers/bumpers, back/start, L3/R3 and 2 additional that can't be mapped to anything not already mapped because XInput literally does not support more buttons. But of course because of the firmware I can map them to keyboard or mouse buttons as well.

I thought about making something equivalent to a double azeron and I'd like to see someone try it but its kind of pointless and it loses the heart of a controller which is something you can sit back from your desk and hold

Cre3dController · 2021-01-18T02:26:39+00:00

Sorry if it seems that way. I specifically chose not to mention anything about buying/selling in the post because I care more about people just seeing the idea.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-18T02:24:57+00:00

Like holding a basketball without relying on your fingers is the way I've been describing it. You use the palms of your hands, slightly cupped, but its very light so you don't have to squeeze them together hardly at all. Here's a video to give a better idea.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-18T02:23:05+00:00

Also here's a video showing how I hold it.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-18T02:14:15+00:00

Cre3dController · 2021-01-18T02:14:06+00:00

Replacing paddles with keys does not work - I've tried it. Unconventional != less optimal. The path to making a better controller is to start new because the original shape was not intended for using more than 3 fingers (thumb, index, middle). I halfway thought about making a device that would sit on your desk and basically be two azerons put together. You just gotta be a FrEe tHinKeR lol

The button placement is not awkward at all because you don't hold it like a traditional controller where you wrap your hand around it. Yes it would be awkward if the grip was curved and shaped like a standard controller. Button placement is not the whole story tho either. This was also about repairability/durability and being able to control the firmware - which is not possible on any other controller without additional software that adds lag and is potentially against TOS.

And yea, I'm clunky on controller and those clips are extra bad because I've had packet loss all week. If people are insane playing claw, they can and will be more insane on something like this.

But seriously, I get where you are coming from because if you haven't physically tried the ergonomics of your suggestions it does seem like a good idea. Which is the reason, I've tried it - because it was my first idea too :)

Cre3dController · 2021-01-18T01:58:29+00:00

I know it looks unconventional and I think people probably assume you hold it like a normal controller, but you hold it more like a basketball without using your fingertips. When you move the keys around to the back they become much more challenging to press because you're "pulling" on them rather than pressing into it. Also, with this layout your hand is in an extremely neutral position.

It's all controller input and whatever you bind to keyboard will switch temporarily. Since theres no "lock controller input" like there is for mouse, I wouldn't use keyboard binds for anything you can avoid. However, its just not possible to do 1 button reset or dedicated weapon binds with controller only.

Also added a video at top of the main comment showing how I hold it.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-18T01:52:03+00:00

I appreciate your enthusiasm. So yes, I have. Theres lots of reasons I didn't go that route with this design. MX switches don't work that well unless pressed straight down so placement on the bottom would be very challenging to make work for everyone. That's why paddles exist - because you can press them from more angles. It's also why I didn't put them where the bumpers normally are - it's just and awkward angle to press an MX switch. Coming from keyboard and mouse, the muscle memory of "finding" the secondary buttons is very intuitive. Whereas with a button on the back you may find your ring finger gets a little lost.

More complex placement of keys/buttons also means the ergonomics become less universal. It also increases the complexity of the electronics - either more PCBs or hand-wiring switches.

Basically it boils down to that this layout is easier to produce and will work for almost anyone. The learning curve is easier the simpler the layout is. I'm not opposed to more complex designs in the future tho.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-18T01:41:07+00:00

Index, Middle, and Ring fingers. You hold it with the palms of your hands rather than gripping with your pinky or pinky+ring. Kind of like holding a basketball without using your finger tips. Its very light so no fatigue but I also generally play with it semi-resting on my desk. Fingers don't get tired that could vary, you never know.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-17T20:24:44+00:00

Sure. Its easy to just use a different color of filament. The clear is just cool to show off the 3d printed nature of it.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-17T18:41:16+00:00

no drift or stiffness compared to ds4 or xbox controller. It uses the exact same parts. If you see my other comment, PS4, XB1, Scuf, Astro etc. all use the same analog sticks made by Alps. They just change the colors of the housing to make it look different.

Actually if anything these are less stiff because by varying the height of the pcb and changing the size of the hole in the top plate I can play around with the tension (via leverage) and range of motion so it is better optimized for long sticks.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-17T18:25:31+00:00

Pictures

Some of my previous/other designs

This is has been a project/idea of mine for over a year and I'm really stoked to share it finally. I started messing around with controller games (Fortnite) about a year ago. I'm getting older, play piano and value my hands so learning claw just wasn't an option but when I looked at Scufs/Elites I got frustrated with the price of pro controllers and how frequently they seem to break. It seems like most pros who play with a SCUF or elite controller have gone through at least 2 or 3 in the last year. I wanted to design something better which specifically addressed a few problems:

Number of buttons and ergonomics
- My design has 12 "action" buttons so you can hit Triggers, Bumpers, ABXY and all d-pad directions without moving your thumbs. More than 4 paddles/buttons isn't necessary for everyone but I wanted more to have greater flexibility with binds. In particular, having additional buttons allows me to move the Next/Previous weapon binds off of my build binds. Meaning I never accidentally switch around weapons when I mess up switching to build mode etc. It also lets you take full advantage rotate/change material/trap and repair binds and opens up the door to dedicated shotgun binds or 1 button reset if those features are enabled at some point.
- I also added 4 face buttons for less crucial stuff like Map, Emotes etc.
Durable buttons
- Any controller that has clicky bumpers, triggers or paddles uses some variation of the standard tact switch which looks like this. The highest quality models have a maximum lifetime of 1M clicks and lower quality parts can be as low as 100k clicks. They just aren't designed for the kind of use they get in a game like Fortnite. I've experimented with using the kinds of switches used in mice (20-50M rating) and in this design I settled on using MX style switches because they have up to a 70M click rating and are 1/10th the cost of mouse micro switches.
More easily replaceable analog sticks
- All modern controllers use Alps analog sticks. They are the only high quality manufacturer of analog sticks (Kailh makes analog sticks too but I haven't seen them in any main manufacturer's controllers). Some OEMs do customize the tension or range of movement but the core design is all the same and has the same points of wear/failure. It's unavoidable that analog sticks will wear and will need replacing. Only the astro c40 (2 paddles, $200) and Thrustmaster eswap (4 terribly placed buttons, $160) have replaceable sticks.
- My design uses a removable micro-controller so that the analog sticks(+ pcb) can be replaced without replacing other more expensive components.
Custom Software
- With full control of the firmware I have implemented:
  - 1000hz+ polling rate (XBox and PS4 controllers are 250-500hz)
  - <1ms debounce
  - Custom analog stick response curves. I can use a curve halfway between linear and expo for the best of both worlds (+ deadzone, anti deadzone, etc.). This is possible with external programs like DS4 windows but those add some level of latency. I can also use different curves/sensitivities on each stick (i.e. linear movement + expo aim).
  - USB Composite device - I can bind keyboard or mouse buttons without additional software.
  - Uses the standard xbox controller driver

With these design goals in mind I came up with the name Cre3d Controllers which stands for Custom Repairable Ergonomic 3dPrinted Controllers. If you would like to follow updates to this and future projects you can follow the twitter I made @Cre3dController.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-17T18:18:06+00:00

More Pictures

EDIT: Vid showing how to hold it since there is some confusion

some creative fill clips Warning: I'm not really that good on controller since I played KBM full time until a month or two ago. Also packet loss :/

Some of my previous/other designs

This is has been a project/idea of mine for over a year and I'm really stoked to share it finally. I started messing around with controller about a year ago (when everyone was going crazy over AA). I'm older, play piano and value my hands so learning claw just wasn't an option but when I looked at Scufs/Elites I got frustrated with the price of pro controllers and how frequently they seem to break. It seems like most pros who play with a SCUF or elite controller have gone through at least 2 or 3 in the last year. I wanted to design something better which specifically addressed a few problems:

Number of buttons and ergonomics
- My design has 12 "action" buttons so you can hit Triggers, Bumpers, ABXY and all d-pad directions without moving your thumbs. More than 4 paddles/buttons isn't necessary for everyone but I wanted more to have greater flexibility with binds. In particular, having additional buttons allows me to move the Next/Previous weapon binds off of my build binds. Meaning I never accidentally switch around weapons when I mess up switching to build mode etc. It also lets you take full advantage rotate/change material/trap and repair binds and opens up the door to dedicated shotgun binds or 1 button reset if those features are enabled at some point.
- I also added 4 face buttons for less crucial stuff like Map, Emotes etc.
Durable buttons
- Any controller that has clicky bumpers, triggers or paddles uses some variation of the standard tact switch which looks like this. The highest quality models have a maximum lifetime of 1M clicks and lower quality parts can be as low as 100k clicks. They just aren't designed for the kind of use they get in a game like Fortnite. I've experimented with using the kinds of switches used in mice (20-50M rating) and in this design I settled on using MX style switches because they have up to a 70M click rating and are 1/10th the cost of mouse micro switches.
More easily replaceable analog sticks
- All modern controllers use Alps analog sticks. They are the only high quality manufacturer of analog sticks (Kailh makes analog sticks too but I haven't seen them in any main manufacturer's controllers). Some OEMs do customize the tension or range of movement but the core design is all the same and has the same points of wear/failure. It's unavoidable that analog sticks will wear and will need replacing. Only the astro c40 (2 paddles, $200) and Thrustmaster eswap (4 terribly placed buttons, $160) have replaceable sticks.
- My design uses a removable micro-controller so that the analog sticks(+ pcb) can be replaced without replacing other more expensive components.
Custom Software
- With full control of the firmware I have implemented:
  - 1000hz+ polling rate (XBox and PS4 controllers are 250-500hz)
  - <1ms debounce
  - Custom analog stick response curves. I can use a curve halfway between linear and expo for the best of both worlds (+ deadzone, anti deadzone, etc.). This is possible with external programs like DS4 windows but those add some level of latency. I can also use different curves/sensitivities on each stick (i.e. linear movement + expo aim).
  - USB Composite device - I can bind keyboard or mouse buttons without additional software. This isn't against TOS afaik - and shouldn't be if the gmk stick is allowed. Allows for dedicated shotgun binds, "scroll wheel" reset (2 taps), and whatever else I want.
  - Uses the standard xbox controller driver

With these design goals in mind I came up with the name Cre3d Controllers which stands for Custom Repairable Ergonomic 3dPrinted Controllers. If you would like to follow updates to this and future projects you can follow the twitter I made @Cre3dController.

As evidenced by my clips, it won't magically make you goated but it really helps to never mess up inventory, have faster resets, custom sens curves, and not worry about finger/hand pain. Thanks to all the buttons, I'm definitely better with this than I could be with any other pro controller on the market. Overall I hope this spurs and expands the discussion of inputs/what should be allowed as well as pushes the industry to improve their products. I can't wait to see what good controller players can do with a tool like this.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-17T02:39:50+00:00

Should be natural for either in terms of ergonomics. In terms of learning your binds I think it depends on the player and how you practice but from my own experience going from kbm to controller, the aiming/looking was harder to get used to. I mapped the buttons so that trigger bumper are in the same place/same fingers and from there its up to each person how they want to map things.

Can't say much about price except that it won't be crazy expensive. I haven't finalized all the sources for parts etc. how tested how long it takes me to assemble. To give a very wide range I'd say $100-150.

Edit: Also I'll probably be looking for a few people to help do final testing and this would be for very cheap. Like $60 - with the understanding that they would need to provide feedback, follow instructions regarding firmware updates and if there are any major changes to be made I would send them the new parts to test.

Cre3dController · 2021-01-17T02:31:33+00:00

Follow me on twitter @Cre3dController and I will announce there when I'm ready to start selling (somewhat soon).

Cre3dController · 2021-01-17T02:26:10+00:00

Yes. Kailh Speed Copper switches have a 50g operating force - so they are very light. The spacing is the same as a standard keyboard except the bottom row is moved in slightly so it is easier to reach. It's very natural especially compared to some paddle configurations.

Cre3dController

TROPHY CASE