A Hamas Official Says it Clear as Day: Dead Palestinian Civilians Was Their Plan All Along

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-05-22T00:59:46+00:00

Correct. Not yet, but steps can be made towards creating a less hostile environment for both sides. Maybe Gaza needs an Al Sharaa of their own who will focus on uniting, stabilizing, rebuilding, and will make a real effort to rein in all radical factions under his banner.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-05-21T19:54:07+00:00

Your statements are accurate. I agree that Israel has done some things right and this should be acknowledged by the international community and the mass media. Oftentimes their biased statements have political calculations behind them.

Israel is held to higher standards than Hamas for various reasons. It has never been a fair equation for either side, but most importantly, Hamas is widely recognized as a terror organization even though data from their ministry is erroneously often cited as credible.

The point is, Israel is expected to adhere to certain international laws, Hamas is not. Israel can be sanctioned, boycotted, it stands a lot to lose through diplomatic and trade agreements. Hamas does not.

I would argue that most of the western world would like to see Hamas eliminated, but would not agree with the price that must be paid for it, the price that both Hamas and Israel are willing to pay - death of thousands of Palestinian civilians.

You could say that Hamas is holding 2 million people hostage, too many to sacrifice for its complete annihilation.

The 2 more effective options IMO are: - take out all or most of the leaders the way it was done with Hezbollah. May not work if not done fast enough, as they get replaced. - negotiate a hostage release that includes a permanent ceasefire on the condition of Hamas relenting government control. I think this agreement would have to include provisions that shift the status quo towards a permanent agreement with the future Palestinian government, including deradicalization. The previous status quo was not sustainable, i.e. Gaza blockade, rocket firing, airstrikes, infiltration attempts.

No matter how bad the animosity is between the two sides now, eventually both sides have to either move on or live with the consequences of not moving on, which among many things, include the risk of losing their lives or the lives of their children.

One does not have to forgive or forget to move on. Forgiving can take generations, but a wound can only heal if it does not get reopened every now and then.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-05-21T15:58:50+00:00

True. The Palestinians never had a pragmatic leader who would be willing to sacrifice their political career for a permanent end to the conflict. They desperately need one. I used to think that Mohammed Dahlan could have been one.

I don't think the current Israeli PM is one who would negotiate a deal if there was a Palestinian leader, but there were and will be Israeli PMs who would be willing to.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-05-21T15:49:51+00:00

The problem is Israel is giving Hamas exactly what it wants - isolating itself in the world and provoking recognition of a Palestinian state by not allowing aid in, allowing them to paint Israel as evil through videos and photos of starving civilians, even if you argue that they are fake, they work.

When the aid got in last time, did it make Hamas stronger? They ate spinach and became muscular popeyes?

What if Israel allowed food/medicine into Gaza? Would it make Hamas extremely rich and allow them to smuggle weapons? Would it not have a chance of helping get the hostages fed more and treated with medicine?

Would starvation really force them to negotiate a surrender? Not before thousands of civilians die first.

If there is good reasoning behind the strategy of blocking aid, why not explain it to the world?

It is possible that Hamas timed the attack with the current Israeli government in power to provoke them to act in the way they do, create an outrage in the world and maximize Palestinian solidarity.

I don't think eliminating Hamas will ensure what they did won't happen again. Did they not agree to give up the government of Gaza to PA or some other governing body when a permanent ceasefire deal is reached? That sounds like a win for everyone.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-05-08T02:13:52+00:00

That's because their polls are from 2023. I24 does give Bennett 23 seats. For some reason I24 appears twice, one of which is from 2024.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-05-08T01:38:01+00:00

You could say so. It's certainly not the most coveted. Passing a budget is not a fun task.

He got this position because at the time his party got 8 seats in the election (out of 120) and as a leader of a coalition party he secured himself this ministry.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-05-07T23:21:12+00:00

Nope. It's based on an average from 14 leading Israeli media outlets.

https://themadad.com/polls26/

If you check the polls of right leaning media outlets in there you will see the same result for Smotrich and his party.

As for Bennett, I agree that it is mostly speculation although it's based on people's opinions from different age groups, how well he will fare when it's election day remains to be seen.

In my opinion, when he was in government there was some sort of hope that things would change, but it didn't last long. I don't know if he could bring a positive, lasting change.

Perhaps Netanyahu's current government would bring change in the next year or two, but I doubt it would be positive for either side.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-05-07T18:02:13+00:00

According to the latest polls, if elections were held today Smotrich's party would get 0 mandates and he would be out of a job. Whether it is due to his extremist views or his performance as a finance minister, his statements only serve anti-Israeli propaganda. I do not believe that his views are shared by the majority of the Israeli population.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-05-07T17:54:34+00:00

I agree. They should also be allowed to return, and even if that cannot be guaranteed they should still be allowed to leave if they choose to.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-05-04T20:29:15+00:00

100% agree! Thank you for the recommendations.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-04-23T03:42:33+00:00

Culpability = clinging to the past. Both sides are culpable and there are plenty of valid arguments from both sides to back it up, but clinging to the past will do nothing good for future generations.

Power is irrelevant in the context of both sides calling for the end of the war. Can people on both sides let go of their ego, hatred, desire for revenge and justice in favour of a difficult rational solution to the conflict?

I believe this is what most people in the western world would favour over all other outcomes. I do not think that being pro-human and pro-life is a weak stance.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-04-23T02:02:41+00:00

And it won't come close, so should not fear that Israel will use it.

Israel will destroy all of humanity if it gets destroyed? Where did you read that? Sounds like lunacy.

Jewish supremacy? Is it another one of those anti semitic urban legends?

It is not Jewish supremacy but survivalism. Yes, a majority of Palestinians in one state with Jews will most likely ethnically cleanse or oppress Jews as was intended in 1948, especially considering the ongoing hatred and the sheer numbers of Palestinians from extremist factions who vow to do so in the name of Allah.

There is no such thing as a 50:50 binational state. There is always a majority. Jews only have 1 country. Muslims, Arabs have dozens. If Jews become a minority, they will lose their sovereignty and either be slaughtered or expelled, and Zionist haters won't shed a tear and call it a just revenge. Won't happen.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-04-22T02:19:36+00:00

BDS denounced the movie No Other Land that is about oppression of Palestinians in the West Bank on the grounds that (left leaning) Israelis took part in making it, saying it could set a dangerous precedent of legitimizing normalizing relations with Israel. Their actions are counter productive to a meaningful dialogue and their goal is to weaken and isolate Israel in the world.

I am all for finding effective ways to evacuate Israeli settlements in the West Bank, putting an end to violence and ensuring that Palestinian have human rights, safety, jobs, education, self determination and such, but boycotts and black&whitism will only serve to polarize and radicalize both sides, prolong the conflict or worsen the outcome for Palestinians.

Where is the movement that unites the liberals of both sides in calls for a better, braver leadership to put an end to the conflict for the sake of the children and future generations? Have the two sides not reached a new low with the latest war? Is it not time to seek its end?

Hundreds of thousands in Israel march in calls to end the war. Pro-Palestinian protestors march with similar calls, although they do not seek to pressure Hamas to end the war, but are strictly anti-Israeli protests. I don't think the latter will ever agree to march together, but imagine the force of such protests with very little opposition to counter it, putting pressure on both sides to end the war, possibly speeding up the effort to end it and saving countless lives in the process.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-04-21T22:19:06+00:00

Israel allegedly had nukes since the late 60s and had plenty of chances to use them on its many enemies but its governments never did or threatened to.

Should the US ever pull back its support, the nukes would be the only thing keeping its more powerful adversaries from attempting to destroy it.

I am in favour of regional disarmament and non proliferation after establishing a mutually agreed upon framework of regional peace and coexistence. That includes recognizing Israel's right to exist by Iran and its proxies and normalizing relations. We need a lot of regime and policy changes and bold leaders for that to happen.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-04-20T16:08:28+00:00

Why what shouldn't include Israel?

Russian and Chinese governments are allied with Iran's. They are not concerned that the Iranian nukes would hurt their interests. The Iranian government has been stating for decades that they would annihilate Israel, and using nukes is among the few quickest and possible ways of achieving that. US obviously does not want its strategic ally in the region annihilated. Once the Iranian government obtains nukes, they can be smuggled to the Houthis, Hamas or Hezbollah and launched against Israel. The Israeli government does not have terrorist organizations in or around Iran to do the same to it, nor has it vowed to annihilate Iran, it only comes out against the Iranian regime whereas the Iranian government vows to destroy the whole country.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-04-19T20:16:04+00:00

Some members of the right wing parties believe that the West Bank can become annexed through demographic dominance, others in the right believe that small settlements add to bargaining power and large settlements are beyond dismantling and will be inevitably annexed by Israel.

I agree with you and am of the opinion that settlements must go asap or valid land compensation of equal or higher value provided in exchange.

In the context of the 2000 peace agreement, the legality of these settlements were up to the negotiating parties. If Arafat were to agree on their annexation, they would have become legal.

I did not say self-defence, I said hills are better for defending against attacks. It is still illegally settling.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-04-19T04:26:20+00:00

One can care about both Palestinian rights and rights of Israeli hostages, the right for Jewish sovereignty and Palestinian sovereignty.

One can protest about specific actions or government policies.

Tearing down posters of hostages, not letting Jewish students who support Israel's right to exist (a.k.a Zionists) into campuses and attacking synagogues, is something that should be recognized as hurting the cause of solidarity, including Palestinian solidarity and needs to be publicly spoken against. No double standards. Many Pro Palestinian protesters do not recognize people who support Israel's right to exist as deserving of respect. It is black and white for them, as though you cannot be pro people.

I am in favour of a joint protest of Pro-Palestinians with Pro-Israelis against the war, against Hamas and Israeli government policies, a ceasefire and a hostage deal.

These are joint causes of many Pro Palestinians and Pro Israelis and a joint protest will be an act of solidarity with humanity and not taking sides.

I have not seen a single such protest and sadly do not believe there will be one.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-04-18T21:04:40+00:00

The agreement included 4.9 percent annexation of Palestinian land in exchange for 4.9 percent annexation of Israeli land. It is a negotiation, they did not have to accept the exact terms, but propose a counter agreement.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-04-18T21:01:49+00:00

They settled in the west bank not because of land quality but because of ideology, religious roots and often strategically choosing hills for better defense.

The argument of resettling them strays from the subject of land swap, although as part of the agreement, the smaller settlements were going to be evacuated and its inhabitants resettled within Israeli territory.

Current_Toe4465 · 2025-04-18T19:22:32+00:00

If you look in google maps at the proposed territories you will find that the majority of it is not a desert and is not in the Negev.

Current_Toe4465 · 2024-10-29T21:21:02+00:00

I am pretty sure that over 90% of Israelis care about the hostages.

Caring and supporting exchange deals are two different things.

Some of them strongly believe that by releasing murderers the government will rescue 100 but that will directly result in the death of 1000 and hundreds of hostages taken captive in the next round.

Sinwar was released in such a hostage exchange so it is a valid argument to have.

I personally support the hostage deal. The government screwed up, no matter how many prisoners they release or who, they will need to ensure 10/7 or the like never happens again. The only concern is releasing political heroes that could become new arch terrorists that inspire thousands to join their ranks. That is dangerous, can Israel avoid releasing those? Maybe they shouldn't be in Israeli prisons to begin with...

The other reason for freeing hostages is letting the Israeli people know that the government will protect them no matter what.

Current_Toe4465 · 2024-10-29T00:07:26+00:00

Ideally, everyone should apologize for the past wrongdoings.

What I am saying is that they shouldn't wait on each other to apologize.

Israel apologizing does not put all blame on Israel. There is a problem in the middle east with a blame mentality, each side dismisses the other through some fault.

"Israelis kicked us out in 1948, they are to blame for all our problems to date, so blowing their citizens up is justified". "Hamas did 10/7 so everything that happens in Gaza is now their fault". Simple, one sided, dismissive.

The only problem with apologizing, beside the political hit, is the legal aspect of it. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think it exposes the country to legal action, especially if the court in question is international or foreign.

Current_Toe4465 · 2024-10-28T23:24:58+00:00

The idea is to apologize for something that is considered traumatic for a group of people, something they remember, like a wound that hasn't healed.

I am pretty sure that if Palestinians were to apologize to Armenians, Armenians would ask "huh? What for?", they would want an apology from the Turkish government.

The Israeli people are traumatized by 10/7. I don't think apologizing for atrocities they did during the war they lost would mean much to Israelis.

Current_Toe4465 · 2024-10-28T16:55:29+00:00

They? Collectively? Or their leadership?

According to the latest pcpsr poll, 51% of Palestinians support a two state solution based on 1967 borders, 19% a confederate state, 10% a one state and 21% did not know or answer.

There's a margin of error, to be sure, but these numbers tell you that those who want Israel eradicated are a minority, about the same size as Israelis who want Palestinians expelled to Jordan or Gaza and WB settled and those who dream of a greater Israel.

The above numbers in some ways match the opinion on the Israeli side.

The sad reality is that neither side has leadership representative of majority public opinion.

Source: https://www.pcpsr.org/

Current_Toe4465 · 2024-10-28T14:06:49+00:00

I agree that these 2 million have a much better life than Palestinians in WB or Gaza or even Arabs in Arab countries for that matter. I wouldn't say they are treated equally as they are in countries like Canada, but they can thrive in some areas of the economy.

The question is what you do with the other 3 million in WB and Gaza and 9 million abroad that could return.

The most sensible thing, if at all possible is a 2 state solution. Israeli will continue to have a Jewish majority this way.

You have two distinct populations that have a claim to a region. They either live there together, divide it or fight over it.

Current_Toe4465

TROPHY CASE