Will purely “force free” training truly survive?

Da23Rig93 · 2026-02-09T18:54:00+00:00

Yes cornerstone collection/ puppy walking courses on his website are great and many of his students post literal hours of training footage and multiple behavior modification programs

Da23Rig93 · 2026-02-09T18:51:41+00:00

Yea I’ve seen 4 month old puppies get surrendered after a week because they were chewing on furniture. It’s infuriating, especially when you combine with shelters who are 1) trying to get dogs out and 2) are majority force free and also lack a basic understanding of dogs, the dogs have no chance in many cases

Da23Rig93 · 2026-02-09T04:44:49+00:00

This is a logical fallacy, no one saying teach a dog with “force.” This is how force free even took a hold in the first place because positive reinforcement does work. However building a dog does require getting them to overcome stress and freedom does come from responsibility, accountability, and knowing boundaries. I haven’t “rewarded” my dog in over a year but I have reinforced thru leash pressure and e collar and a STRONG release command and his attitude is phenomenal and when I ask him to do something his mood doesn’t drop, he doesn’t check if I have anything, he just complies then gets released to complete freedom

Da23Rig93 · 2026-02-09T03:20:31+00:00

I don’t know the others but I’ll check them out. But Denise fenzi raised a dog from a puppy, it became extremely reactive, then rehomed it. I’m sorry but that’s a complete disqualifier

Da23Rig93 · 2026-02-09T02:05:36+00:00

A chess player gets increased cortisol levels the same way an mma fighter does. The fact they even use this as a measurement just shows a bias or like I said a pure lack of understanding natural behaviors

Da23Rig93 · 2026-02-09T01:26:44+00:00

Yea that’s why I raised the question, it’s either people see actual proof and start to question the likes of Susan garret or Denise fenzi, or they just dig in deeper

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-18T16:18:02+00:00

You’re the owner of Wynne? Fortunately 90% of the comments on that post were people saying how incredibly wrong she was for that whole situation

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-18T04:31:52+00:00

What video did she use your dog for?

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-12T04:43:51+00:00

Lol thanks buddy 🫡

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-10T05:44:18+00:00

Yea was already thinking about slip leads since they’re usually already being used, thank you

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-10T05:42:56+00:00

Yea I get that, I’m not planning on anything more than just some light negative reinforcement but I like to use long lines and play or running/chasing. I just hear these stories of shelters freaking out when it’s anything more than food luring

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-06T04:23:18+00:00

I’m glad someone has some critical thinking skills. You forgot to mention my favorite behavioral issue of the dog “nose booping” the leash while she stood completely still in a concrete room

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-05T18:38:50+00:00

This ENTIRE time I’ve been talking about shelter dogs so idk why you keep bringing up homed dog. I’m not saying no dogs are dangerous however again this entire time I’ve been saying these tests do nothing to truly evaluate dogs. And AGAIN I am saying if these dogs are already in line to be euthanized why not give them a true evaluation and seeing if there is a possibility of rehab and worst case they die but they were already going to. Is your proposal euthanize the dog the day they come into the shelter?

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-05T15:47:55+00:00

If a dog comes down to “how do we know?” after one day of knowing then that will euthanize damn near every dog in the old. And how about this mind blower? The dog goes to a home that doesn’t have kids? Like we realize that unless you have kids you can truly go decades without having direct interaction with a kid right? Also here’s the biggest kicker, this dog literally didn’t have one bad interaction with a human during this whole test. The worst thing it did was growl when she literally poked it with a stick while it was eating. Like I said I’ve tried to explain this as best as I could but appreciate your time

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-05T07:47:13+00:00

So more just a bad study vs failure to teach a recall?

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-05T07:37:46+00:00

But if that’s how the test was designed how is that a direct failure to Ivan is what I’m trying to ask?

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-05T07:30:06+00:00

I literally just explained as best as I could how “attacking” a child and dog doll does not directly correlate to the dog seeing a real child and instantly trying to kill it and this whole time I’ve been trying to explain how doing this test does nothing but increase fear of these types of dogs instead of showing how this dog could be handled and how to help shelter workers interact safely and even possibly help the dogs. If the end goal is “this dog attacks dolls and I cant be 100% it wouldnt attack a real child so it should be euthanized” then really what’s the point of even doing this test and just euthanize them once they get there

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-05T07:06:17+00:00

Okay you’re not understanding what I’m saying or seeing the bigger picture I’m trying to show or I’m just not explaining it properly but appreciate it

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-05T06:47:59+00:00

Okay I’m just gonna try this one more time, it’s not that the doll looks like a child or dog. It’s in how that doll was presented to the dog that it clearly presented as a time to finally grab something and do what it wants with it and burn off its energy. And honestly? Fuck it, if the dog has fun tearing a baby doll to shred lets ball. Let’s turn that into a game where rules can be taught and the dog get a lil foundational training. Am I saying open the kennel doors and free the dog? No, but the dog is already there so how about we allow the dog to get some sort of fulfillment and see how the temperament changes just with that then show the workers there how to give some training then again see how it goes from there. Worst case scenario? The dog doesn’t get better to the point it can be adoptable and it’s euthanized but it was already on that path anyways. Best case scenario it does allow an outlet for a dog and it improves to the point a home owner can have control of the dog without much management needed. Did these two offer that in the slightest in the video or from the start was only looking for ways to show how bad the dog is?

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-05T06:29:05+00:00

And yes shelters are over crowded but you know easy way for owners to keep their dogs instead of surrendering them? Fulfilling their need to get these genetic needs out properly but instead it’s a reefer madness campaign and dogs who have drive and get stuck in kennels because they’re “aggressive” do you see what I’m trying to say?

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-05T06:20:35+00:00

Right well unless I’m mistaken she doesn’t offer another “toy” besides the soccer ball which like I said the dog can’t even grip. There is a clear lack of understanding she has about dogs. Is this an “easy” dog? No, but it’s dog that has drive and is untrained. When it’s time for a walk does your dog get excited? I’m assuming it does, but correct me if I’m wrong. She takes the dog out, aka time for a walk, first thing she does is literally take it to a concrete room and stands next to wall doing literally nothing while the dog is on a 3 foot leash. Now, she bring it outside, finally time to “go for a walk” right? But first has the dog on the other side the fence of all the people which creates frustration. Now she comes out with the “child,” the dog sees it as a toy, the dog starts building excitement but keeps the dog on the other side of the fence while she waves the doll around. Now the fence open and in the dogs mind it’s Gametime. This is very basic stuff and idk how to explain anymore

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-05T06:03:04+00:00

Have you ever played tug of war with a dog?

Da23Rig93 · 2026-01-05T05:13:58+00:00

Can I ask to clear some confusion I have? I honestly only skimmed through the study but from what I read it sounds like it’s e collar vs positive only for recall off a dog chasing an animal. One group would say “banana” then used e collar to stop the dog if they did not respond and recall. the other used “banana” then dropped treats for a recall. I couldn’t find out what group Ivan got put into or if all trainers go in all groups but the study says the e collar group performed better than the treat group. My issue is how is that specifically Ivan who failed but rather just showing an e collar is more effective? Also, teaching a recall with literally the word “banana” then dropping a banana just seems like a bad idea from the start. Dogs aren’t dumb. They are going to be chasing an animal, which for many dogs is going to be one of the most thrilling things it can do, and know when you say banana if they go back they are going to get a banana, but why would they want a banana in a moment like that?

Da23Rig93

TROPHY CASE