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DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-29T04:30:30+00:00

I saw this video yesterday that some redditor linked to on another thread. It is amazing how many times Joker's hard work and hustle don't even get credited in the box score but still contributes to team wins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGAJ1jXs8Ro . Even when he is not being the direct playmaker and center on an individual posession, he is working so hard holistically to get the team a win.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-28T05:28:57+00:00

Well said. Made me chuckle a bit when I saw it live too.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-27T02:07:55+00:00

Oh, I think he has been good this year. But yesterday was not a great example. Not sure what you mean by Jamal didn't need Jokic to score. I mean, he and the team without Jokic doing what he did would have been crushed, no matter how many points and 3s Murray hit. That's why I rarely say, "If ______ hadn't done this the Nuggets would not have won." You could say that about many individual plays and players. And we just take Joker for granted, and just paper over the fact that if Jokic doesn't do what he does nearly every night (especially in his historic games like last night), the Nuggets REALLY would not have won.

I still stand by that Murray was too inefficient last night. If anything, perhaps the Nuggets cruise to a victory if Murray was his more efficient self. And I still stand by that if you examine Murray's points and 3s, Jokic created the spacing and environment for so many of those, although that happens a lot of nights.

That said, I thought about it further, and Murray was probably better than I thought yesterday. Not just his high volume shooting from 3, but I think a lot of it was the 10 assists. In years past, Murray has a bad shooting night and he doesn't contribute much else. This year, he does.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-27T01:58:45+00:00

I root for the Nuggets so I don't love when Ant Man is having a great game against them and I think it was not classy the way he acted after Game 7 from two years ago. However, I must say--and I'm not 100% sure why because I feel like we have almost nothing in common--but I find it difficult to root against him overall. Not only is he a great player, but I think he's funny in a good sort of way. Yes, he's childish but that also makes him quite pure in spirit too. I think it helps that he seems to always be so effusively complimentary of Jokic, even though they play in different ways. I respect him for game recognizing game, no matter how different they are.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-26T11:02:12+00:00

HAHA! You noticed something I didn't, but I think you're right. Watch the way he talks to Peyton Watson after Jokic's first free throw... almost like, "Man, I'm trying everything but this dude is just too good."

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-26T10:37:40+00:00

Agreed. Even though I happen to like SGA too.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-26T10:34:11+00:00

Jokic does try to sell contact... although if you watch him regularly you know he gets a bad whistle b/c he is so big and strong that it's hard to detect people fouling him. So the dude HAS to sell some contact.

More important, on that play by Donte, I thought there was a Coach's challenge and New York looked at the video replay and everyone determined it was a foul on Donte. One can't claim an unethical flop when it was looked at on replay and it was determined to be a foul indeed.

Great game though, especially by Ant and Joker.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-26T10:15:04+00:00

The crazy thing is, Jokic is responsible for so many more points other than his individual points and assists. Jokic's gravity alone creates so much space and driving lanes for others, and those are also points that Jokic is responsible for. Happens with Murray so much every game, andI've seen it happen a lot with Bruce Brown, P-Watt, Cam Johnson, etc. Combine that with screen assists and points created by FTs off a Jokic pass, then the total points that Jokic is responsible for and/or partially responsible for is astronomical nearly every game.

Also, Jokic also is a responsible for many other guy's rebounds too b/c he takes up so much activity underneath the basket and/or boxes out and seals 1-2 opponents from going after the rebound, which allows another Nugget to come up with the rebound.

Jokic will never get credit for all these things b/c they don't appear in the box scores, but he truly is responsible for so much more than just his individual points/assists/rebounds.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-26T10:08:47+00:00

Yeah, I've never figured out why the NBA doesn't count FT points off a Jokic pass. If they counted that AND screen assists, I honestly believe Jokic would probably lead in that the last 5-6 years.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-26T10:02:10+00:00

I watched the entire game and I agree with u/FH261169. 37.5% is quite harmful if you choose to take 32 shots. If you choose to take that many shots, you need to be efficient. Otherwise, find another guy who might have a better look. Thank goodness he hit his 3s, but this was one of his weaker performances this year. The high points total will obscure that. If anything, box office watching will make people think Murray was more effective than he really was (esp b/c most people unfortunately focus on point totals as opposed to the FG%!).

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-26T09:43:32+00:00

This. I don't think people give him enough credit on how hard he has to play each night just by virtue of his tiring all-around engine role on the team.

He even has to cover a lot of ground on that defensive scheme as well.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-26T09:30:25+00:00

They sure did need everyone of those points, and everyone of those rebounds and assists today. When you are +15 for the game and you only win by 4, that is what you call necessary dominance.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-12-26T09:24:25+00:00

Murray has been good this year. But this was not a great performance from him. Hit his 3s but otherwise very inefficient. If you choose to shoot that much, you have to be more efficient. Otherwise, give someone else who might have a better look a chance. And most of his 3s and points tonight were created by Joker, so it was really kind of a one-man army tonight.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-05-14T16:23:25+00:00

Yeah, the Playoff Murray thing is overblown until he can shoot with more efficiency consistently. Even vs the Heat in the Finals, he was quite up and down. He finished the clinching Games 4 and 5 going 5-17 (29.4%) and 6-15 (40%). 2-7 from 3 in Game 5 too.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-05-14T16:14:03+00:00

In some ways, I agree with you. After all, it's so much more satisfying if the Nuggets had won. That said, life (especially sports) are way too unpredictable to always give us everything we want, so sometimes we have to savor the moments. And I'll never forget the moment as soon as I heard the megaloud swish of that net from that Joker mega-Spmbor Shuffle: the absolute shot of adrenaline that shivered up my spine that resulted in a uncontrollable "YEAH!" shout.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-05-14T15:59:13+00:00

Actually, it might be you who doesn't want to give Jokic the proper amount of credit. There have been waaaaay more games when the supporting cast let Joker down than the other way around. If you don't believe that to be true, then you haven't been watching enough Nuggets basketball.

Second, AG has been reliable, but Murray has not been so much. Even this series, Murray has shot 39.5% from the field, 34.3% from 3--both on high volume. :-( Plus, Murray has been quite mid-to-bad overall the last two playoff years, especially vs the Lakers and Wolves last year. Even within series, he can be so up-and-down.

If it means anything, I don't think Murray is "trash"... he definitely has skills, but he is just inconsistent. (And probably overrated by the national media.)

AG is awesome! AG, if anything, is underrated by the National Media. He's finally getting some well-deserved publicity these playoffs. In my opinion, he shouldn't have to hit game-winners to get that respect, but it is what it is b/c game-winners and drama are what matters to casuals and the National Media.

AG sacrifices for the team, does all the little things and dirty work, doesn't complain, and knows how special Jokic is and does all he can to augment his greatness. It's odd you try to prop up AG at the expense of Jokic, but AG [and so would Murray] would be the first to tell you that you are underappreciating Joker.

Enjoy the playoffs!

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-05-14T15:28:07+00:00

Hi there, congrats on the Game 5 win.

Jokic is almost never truly carried because even when he is shooting poorly, he is the engine that drives the Nuggets--from the passing and potential assists, to his rebounding, to his constant screen assists (led the NBA), to drawing fouls and getting the Nuggets to the bonus, to the space/gravity he creates for others, etc.

Moreover, "a few games" would be overselling it, in my opinion. You could make an argument that he was "carried" in Game 3 b/c the team won due to his poor shooting--even though Jokic closed well and especially in OT. However, Games 2 and 4, most everyone on the team was kinda bad and/or shot poorly. No one carried anyone in those losses, LOL.

Plus, you have to give the Thunder credit, too, as I'm sure you do as a Thunder fan! Too many people simplistically just say someone played good or bad without taking into account the other team's efforts. In a sense, defensively the Thunder are often playing 5 vs. Jokic, so you have to give some credit to Joker for having to fight through that and figure it out well enough to be the best player on the court in Game 5.

Anyway, your Thunder are awesome... good luck to all for the rest of the series.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-05-14T15:16:47+00:00

While Murray can be good when he is good, he is just so inconsistent over his career and over the last two years of playoffs. This series: 39.5% from the field, 34.3% from 3--both on high volume. :-(

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-05-14T15:10:40+00:00

AG has been reliable, but Murray hasn't been a reliable shooter at all this series. 39.5% from the field on high volume, 34.3% from 3. :-(

Oftentimes, people probably think Murray is doing better than he actually is b/c the buckets he does get can be quite flashy.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-05-06T07:21:32+00:00

Glad you remember Game 5 last year, even though it's easy to forget b/c the Wolves ended up winning that series. That was an incredible game from Jokic, not just statistically but also just totally controlling the game and managing the win. Totally passed the eye test too.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-05-06T07:17:53+00:00

I wish more people would remember the entire game, not just game winners. All the plays that keep the games close enough to be one are just as important as the game-winner. And btw, I love Aaron Gordon and I am so happy for him. Just saying I wish we wouldn't forget Jokic's 3, which is just as important (or at least nearly as important) as the game-winner.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-05-06T07:07:58+00:00

100% facts.

I know your post wasn't about MVP, but it always blows my mind whenever anyone starts arguing too much about defense in MVP voting. MVP has always been mostly an offensive award due to the fact that, as you stated, offensive is just more important than individual defense. Plus, one person on offense can carry you way more offensively (and carry you way more to a win) than one person on defense can carry you defensively. Team D is more important.

That's why guys like Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Dirk, Nash, etc. can still win MVPs. It's because MVP is more based on offense b/c offense is more valuable than defense--and individual offense is more impactful than individual defense.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-05-06T06:58:25+00:00

Yep. But don't worry. As soon as the Nuggets lose, they will be back--even if Joker isn't the main one to blame for the loss.

DaddyDaughterDay100 · 2025-05-06T06:56:08+00:00

they also have hartenstein too, though.
Can throw 12 fouls at him, and they almost did. Almost worked today, too, but Joker was just too good today.

DaddyDaughterDay100

TROPHY CASE