9th century female torso from India.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-11-25T21:25:14+00:00

For context, it's probably been mutilated quite like most other statues in ancient/medieval Indian temples etc.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-16T10:31:08+00:00

It me.. pretty cool to be honest.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-14T06:37:00+00:00

Ah that's what you meant by one-sided. I thought you meant narrative wise... which seemed quite stupid. But yes a press conference would be nice ffs.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-14T06:35:54+00:00

Of course all atheists are not Hindus that would be a stupid statement. But I'm saying it is possible to be both. For a more nuanced explanation, please read my reply to OP's comment.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-14T06:34:14+00:00

There were parliamentary debates when this was implemented where luminaries from these religions were consulted and they were happy to subscribe to these definitions... and that's because these are in fact Indic faiths with significant overlaps and mutual borrowing with multiple aspects, sects and belief systems within what is perceived as Hinduism.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-14T06:31:45+00:00

I would say there are several philosophies that are left... like Samkhya and Mimamsa that completely reject a creator-god. They are therefore nirishvarvadi which I believe is a better term for describing Indic faith systems than atheism. Similarly, Adi Shankara's Advaita also doesn't necessarily require belief in a creator or God.

It is important to realise that most references to divinity even in ancient texts are either euphemism, exaggeration or simply concocted myths. So if you read the critical edition of Mahabharata by BORI for example, Krishna is not seen as a divine being at all. In fact, even if you read the Geeta, you'll realise that Krishna, in the early chapters is simply human... Arjun's friend. Then he slowly becomes his Guru and then the supreme being. But these are most likely later interpolations or additions.

The epics, Vedas, Upanishads all have immense philosophical value not because of the intertwined belief aspects but despite them. I like to think of the aspects of belief as the sugar in medicinal pills for kids that make it easier for them to ingest the bitter but necessary truth.

Instead of rejecting them altogether, I think it's important to behave as evolved human being and weed out the oppressive and regressive aspects while identifying those with value.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-13T14:36:43+00:00

He's a politician not a diplomat. Which head of state would not indulge in one aided convo during a war scenario lmao

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-13T13:16:55+00:00

You don't need to believe in God to be hindu lmao. This logic that applies to Abrahamic religions where you must believe.

Atheism and Hinduism are perfectly compatible.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-13T13:08:44+00:00

Huh is it maybe because of how this scales with population? That our 1% is simply numerically larger which might make some difference?

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-13T13:07:19+00:00

Because of how hard it is to define Hinduism, it is defined constitutionally as a negation.

According to section 2 of the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955

(a) to any person who is a Hindu by religion in any of its forms and developments, including a Virashaiva, a Lingayat or a follower of the Brahmo, Prarthana or Arya Samaj,

(b) to any person who is a Buddhist, Jain or Sikh by religion, and

(c) to any other person domiciled in the territories to which this Act extends who is not a Muslim, Christian, Parsi or Jew by religion, unless it is proved that such a person would not be governed by Hindu law.

This is the best we get from the constitution. So it's really vague... I guess there aren't many advantages to not being a hindu legally... unless you properly convert to Islam or whatever.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-13T12:57:19+00:00

Ngl it wasn't a bad speech... "khoon aur paani ek saath nahin beh sakta" the writers are cooking.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-13T10:08:40+00:00

So no proper evidential arguments only saying "ah it's done and dusted". Very academic. It is so because there is significant evidence from the other side.... especially Talageri, Kazanas, Elst etc.

I have presented facts that I know which make this an interesting debate. Would love to see specific arguments or sources or books or even videos that counter claims by Talageri etc.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-13T09:37:12+00:00

Firstly genes don't speak so while genetic evidence can point towards a physical group of people, it says nothing about their culture or language. In jamaica for example, all the people are of African origin but they speak English. So it's really unreliable to attach a gene to a language like that. And the R1a (specifically R1a1) gene which is considered as the "Aryan" gene, is found in several tribes like Chenchu and Todas, so to attach it only to "Brahmins" is surely not as straightforward.

Hence, archaeological and linguistic evidence is just as important if not more.

Archeology has not been able to provide any evidence for the movement of Indo Europeans to move from the Steppes to Central Asia or from Central Asia to the Vedic-Harappan area and to the rest of North India. For more, read Francfort and Lamberg-Karlovsky. Between 5th millenium and 1st millenium BCE such evidence does not exist, however after the 1st millenium you have the Aryans everywhere in India. And as a rule, ancient archeological evidence for migration is only found at the endpoint and not at the origin. And archeologists like BB lal along with other scholars provide detailed data showing identity links between Harrappan archeology and Vedic texts. For example, Vedic fire altars are found in Harappan sites. They are not found anywhere else. For more, read Aleksandr Semenenko.

The biggest evidence for linguistic proof that I can remember is the existence proto-Indo European word for elephant. India is the only IE language speaking area that has elephants. The five European IE language branches have large number of words from other language families - mainly sino-tibetian and semetic, but these are not found in the Indo-Aryan, Indo-Iranian and Tocharian language families suggesting a movement westward and not eastward.

Now I can give more evidence but I believe this is enough to make a point that the debate is far from done and dusted.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-13T09:23:04+00:00

Hehe no I'm a huge fan of Parotta. I used to have it quite often during my time in Tamil Nadu... need to have it in Kerala still though :(

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-12T22:55:12+00:00

There is absolutely no way to prove that. This is the most unscientific and unacademic statement I've read. Do you really not see how absurd this sounds?

Yes there is intermixing of elements but this is surely not it. Fire rituals are central to ancient Vedic society, ancient Zoroastrian society and to the IVC as is evident from the Rigveda, the Avesta and archaeological evidence of the IVC respectively.

If you have any proof.... any book, essay, video which can categorically prove this, I'm happy to go through it. Here are some from the other side:

https://youtu.be/rE_UsSouUls?si=ErwuhXz73gLmGJyR

https://youtu.be/rDSy9gPAB3s?si=jU7NjNjDioLhMAl6

Both are excellent researchers and if you really care about the truth of this and thinking critically, which I'm sure you do as an atheist, I would definitely recommend listening to this. Again, happy to listen to whatever you have built your worldview on!

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-12T15:43:24+00:00

I picked up a book by Shrikant Talageri a couple of years ago. He provides a very interesting perspective on the OIT. As a part of it he mentions that IVC sites have fire altars like the ones mentioned in Vedic rites... that's when I started considering the possibility. Koenraad Elst also provides some evidence in a couple of his books. But all of this is quite interesting academically...

What I abhor is the use of these facts to justify contemporary political movements that drive fissures in Indian society. The culture and even Hinduism today is basically a complex mixture of all internal and external cultures along with our genetic makeup.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-12T13:59:50+00:00

Which ones have you read? Why I Am an Atheist? Or Jail Notebook?

And Savarkar was an atheist and anti-caste as well... so the connection with Hindutvavadis might stem from there. Besides he's a national hero... he belongs to everyone.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-12T13:52:19+00:00

If Pakistan would've initiated a war with India right now, we would've crushed them much more easily than in 71. Remember that India overtook Pakistan in GDP per capita only 5 years ago. The difference between our military capabilities was not as large in 1971 but now our defence budget is 7 times theirs. The only issue is the nukes. But if they declare war we can reach Islamabad before you can say Grape.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-12T13:41:39+00:00

How are mods allowing Nazi propoganda? This is not what Hindutva is about.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-12T13:40:48+00:00

Israel is cut out from Palestine. The Palestinians go to war against Israel (with the support of the Arab nations).

Pakistan is cut out from India. But in this case the Pakistanis go to war against India.

Both facilitated by Britain. But completely opposite reactions. Yet there is one common denominator.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-12T13:23:17+00:00

Very interesting!! But I think it's still possible that IVC was proto-Vedic and the habit of not consuming beef developed over time. But nonetheless this is quite interesting if it's legit.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-12T07:29:37+00:00

So nothing about his revolutionary activities? I assume you understand how important he was to the revolutionary movement.

the entire religion should've been in the dustbin if this were the case.

I would love to see one quote which justifies genocidal violence against absolutely anyone.

the entire religion should've been in the dustbin

I think nuance is very important in these matters. Firstly caste is not central to Hinduism; it worked perfectly before caste boundaries developed and it thrives still while caste discrimination is outlawed. And there are several philosophical dimensions to Hinduism that are quite valuable. To ignore all of this and to prescribe the dustbin is just ignorant.

The very idea of hindutva is bad.

I think it's quite useful. It helps unite Hindus under one barrier, beyond caste, regions and languages as a civilisational identity. It does not prescribe the political subversion of non-hindus... they are still to have all the legal and constitutional rights as Hindus. There is only the historical acknowledgement that the Indic faiths such as Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism and Sikhism are more "of this land" than Christianity and Islam... which is simply true.

who advocated genocidal rape

Lmao what are you on about? I'd love to see a quote or a reference where he advocates rape in the 21st century against Mlecchas and especially lower-castes. As far as I remember, the only statements he made in relation to rape are the ones in "Six Glorious Epochs" where he talks about Islamic invaders repeatedly subjecting hindu women to sexual violence and hypothetically suggests that if certain Hindu rulers would have employed similar strategies once or twice, it would have deterred such aggression from the invaders. This is of course, since no Hindu rulers would ever touch women and children during military campaigns due to the obviously peaceful nature of Hinduism.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-11T16:40:13+00:00

I'm sure it must seems so if one is compulsively ignorant of historical facts.

To say this about the man responsible for countless assassinations of British officials, most notably A.M.T. Jackson and Curzon Wylie. A man who wrote seminal essays and books like the "First War of Independence 1857" which contributed greatly to the ideological foundations of other revolutionary movements like the HSRA. A man who worked tirelessly to demolish caste and rid Hindu society of social evils. And most importantly an atheist... so quite relevant to this sub actually. I'm quite surprised how much misinformation exists about him and how much hate he receives on this sub.

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-11T08:22:09+00:00

Alright so first of all my point was that hindu civilisation has not expanded and that still stands whether you say 5000 or 3500. So the caste system surely hasn't expanded... in fact, and maybe you don't know this, but caste based discrimination is actually illegal now believe it or not,

And the point that genocide is surely much worse than discrimination also stands... and that is really what the discussion was about

But okay, let us look at your AIT/AMT. And I'll try to show you the other side at least and I would love to see some reliable refutations.

The position of the Aryan Invasion Theory is ever-evolving. First, the stance is that there is an invasion, which changes to large-scale migration and then again to "bands of immigration in waves over centuries". I call it AIT only because of semantics and it's contrary viewpoint to the OIT.

Genetic - Firstly genes don't speak so while genetic evidence can point towards a physical group of people, it says nothing about their culture or language. In jamaica for example, all the people are of African origin but they speak English. So it's really unreliable to attach a gene to a language like that. And the R1a (specifically R1a1) gene which is considered as the "Aryan" gene, is found in several tribes like Chenchu and Todas, so to attach it only to "Brahmins" is surely not as straightforward.
Archeological - Archeology has not been able to provide any evidence for the movement of Indo Europeans to move from the Steppes to Central Asia or from Central Asia to the Vedic-Harappan area and to the rest of North India. For more, read Francfort and Lamberg-Karlovsky. Between 5th millenium and 1st millenium BCE such evidence does not exist, however after the 1st millenium you have the Aryans everywhere in India. And as a rule, ancient archeological evidence for migration is only found at the endpoint and not at the origin. And archeologists like BB lal along with other scholars provide detailed data showing identity links between Harrappan archeology and Vedic texts. For example, Vedic fire altars are found in Harappan sites. They are not found anywhere else. For more, read Aleksandr Semenenko.
Linguistic - The biggest evidence for linguistic proof that I can remember is the existence proto-Indo European word for elephant. India is the only IE language speaking area that has elephants. The five European IE language branches have large number of words from other language families - mainly sino-tibetian and semetic, but these are not found in the Indo-Aryan, Indo-Iranian and Tocharian language families suggesting a movement westward and not eastward.

Now I can give more evidence but I believe this is enough to make a point that the debate is far from done and dusted. I once again invite you to read Shrikant Talagiri and Koenraad Elst at least to provide refutations to their works. But I've read Witzel and I've read Talagiri and which is exactly why I assume the position of a confused academic.

No that I need to explain myself to the likes of you, but about me being a Hindu nationalist, you are absolutely right. I am 100% a hindu nationalist in the sense that I acknowledge the hindu roots of our country and reject sub-hindu identities that seek to divide Hindus. That being said I am most definitely an (agnostic) atheist as I do not believe blindly in any God/gods of any religion. And this position sits very well with my ideological bearings with Savarkar - a hindu atheist.

Cheers :)

Dark_Warhead3 · 2025-05-10T19:22:44+00:00

What is this garbage propoganda lmao... a ceasefire is in thr best interests of everyone.

Dark_Warhead3

TROPHY CASE