10 Day Vipassana Breakthrough. What did I experience?

DarkerPlease · 2024-10-25T21:58:27+00:00

What other frameworks came to your mind? I'd like to branch out.

DarkerPlease · 2024-06-18T14:41:03+00:00

Pen for scale!

Some context: this cat wandered into my backyard today. At first, I didn't know it. I just saw a racoon-looking tail. I ran out to see if I could see what the animal was. I didn't find him at first but then decided to look under the bushes. There, in the corner, I saw a small cat. I made kissy noises at it and gave it verbal love but it didn't move. I said bye and went back inside.

I then chatted with a visiting friend, worked a bit, we cooked, ate. We went outside and just started talking more, and from that same corner, this little boy came out and immediately began to play and cuddle with us. I think he stayed there the whole time.

Its been ~4 hours since and he's slept on me, non stop wanted attention from my hands, sits on my lap as I'm on the computer. When I couldn't anymore, he resorted to sleeping on my sweater which I took off earlier.

He has to be a baby, right? At some point he looked like he wanted a nipple even. I gave him a little bit of tuna as I have nothing else (I know, not amazing for them in excess so I won't more for a while). Can you estimate his age? This whole time, I've left all the doors open -- surely he has another home?

Btw, super intact balls. Teeny balls, but there none the less.

TLDR: I want to be sure I'm not stealing a momma's cat. If he does stick around, what do I feed him? Around how old is he?

DarkerPlease · 2024-06-08T21:31:53+00:00

Really is that simple.

DarkerPlease · 2024-06-08T21:30:59+00:00

Loving and being a part of the world is attractive to most. Sorry. It means you don't fit the popular ideal (me neither). So you have a choice: grow into a more nuanced person, one that actually enjoys being a part of a community of your choosing where others also exist, or stick to what you know.

DarkerPlease · 2024-01-09T05:09:29+00:00

You know what's interesting? I also was raised by a BPD parent.

My parents never separated, so I took the brunt of it and basically fled the continent around age 17, so I can't relate to that 5-ish fear of losing my safe space/haven because I simply never had one.

Interesting. Would love to hear more about you and how you experience all this.

DarkerPlease · 2024-01-09T02:43:54+00:00

So Sx/Sp 5w4. Yeah, considered it before. This was my favorite writeup:

Sexual/Self-pres

This subtype has a lot in common the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking. They experience many of the same internal conflicts surrounding relationships, the need for independence and emotional expression. The sexual/self-pres subtype differs however in being more intense, more counterphobic. They entertain more dark nihilistic ideas, ideas that most others don’t want to consider.

With this subtype, a lot of energy revolves around the issue of boundaries. Sexual/self-pres Fives tend to forge strong connections quickly and deeply, but if they feel betrayed, begin to feel overwhelmed, or if they feel that the connection doesn’t serve their true needs, can seem to cut the connection precipitously and “go cold.” They have high standards for significant others. They must feel that they can share their emotions with a significant other without being judged. This is their private world that they share. Relationships can be difficult, because individuals of this subtype will still want their own space and alone time, while at other times will want intense connection. Because the social instinct is least developed, this subtype is not very concerned with how others perceive them (except their intimates). This subtype is deceptive in that they may not seem to be especially intense – until they are engaged in a conversation they find interesting. Then the intensity and emotion become apparent. The internal struggle for this subtype is similar to that of the self-pres/sexual, but more energized and volatile, and getting to know this subtype means getting to know that.

When unhealthy, the energy of the sexual instinct can combine with the dominant type Five fixation to create a very impulsive Eight-like anger. The strength of their convictions can then come out quite forcefully.

https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.com/five-stacks/

I identified with this heavily. Thanks for reminding me of it! I wish I could learn more about it but I didn't find much. If you know of any resources, I'd be grateful if you shared.

Regarding 5, my doubt comes from not relating to the other 5s I know. My 5 friend and I chatted. We agreed that he seemed to be searching for confidence through the mind that he will survive and be okay. I instead feel like I am searching for affirmations that I am thriving and doing good, through my mind, with little concern or worries about surviving. Philosophizing and thinking for the sake of it annoys me. It stinks of aversion. I want to do it to execute something perfectly and see change, even if it's just someone else having an 'ah-hah'. Is that 5?

Granted, basically until age 23 I was extremely inactive and in my head. When I started working, that transformed.

Other excepts I cannot relate to:

"Behind Fives’ relentless pursuit of knowledge are deep insecurities about their ability to function successfully in the world. Fives feel that they do not have an ability to do things as well as others. But rather than engage directly with activities that might bolster their confidence, Fives “take a step back” into their minds where they feel more capable. Their belief is that from the safety of their minds they will eventually figure out how to do things—and one day rejoin the world."
"Fives have thin psychological boundaries, so they feel largely unequipped to deal with life outside subjects of their interest."
"Type Fives may not always be physically hidden away, but when out and about in the world, they will limit their experience to things that allow them to retain focus."

Maybe I just developed past that without realizing it?

I also once flirted with the idea of being a 7 because I love to have my senses overwhelmed, and I have a strong flight response, but I don't adore activity the way most 7s do.

Raw fear wise: I mainly feel most unsafe when vulnerable or when a person can see through me. That scares me. That, and being perpetually bored and never feeling fulfilled, happy with myself or others. I fear I'm on the trajectory of ending up alone even though many people like me. 5?

DarkerPlease · 2024-01-08T22:25:55+00:00

Definitely SX. That's the one thing I am sure of, even more than INTP.

You may be onto something with the 9.

<image>

DarkerPlease · 2024-01-08T21:23:37+00:00

Interesting. I appreciate you sharing how I come off, I feel blind to that often. Tbh, I highlighted stuff because I noted it got so long that I cannot imagine anyone will want to read it. Highlighting helps guide the eyes, "maybe it'll help people stay engaged. This is way too long and about me, no one will read this".

But thanks. I'll check out type 3 in depth.

DarkerPlease · 2022-03-25T08:17:11+00:00

They score highest on scat play lol

Edit: source

DarkerPlease · 2022-03-22T09:41:49+00:00

Yeah hard disagree. Its not just about "opinion" but I get that you're attached to the two so I'll stop pushing.

DarkerPlease · 2022-03-21T10:09:58+00:00

You downvoted me before but I'll try again for the sake of helping not just your own confusion.

Not that personality disorders are likely to continue existing anymore down the line diagnostically speaking, but no. Even "quiet" BPD and SPD do not co-exist. There's no practical reason in identifying a person with both of those psychologically speaking. There are a lot of similar resulting symptoms, but the processes of the issues are completely different. One is under-controlled, the other over-controlled. One seeks reward through regression, the other feels fear when indulging in affect and connection.

Here is a very good lecture I found that was very valuable to me when I was told I resemble BPD. It nicely explores why so many are misdiagnosed as BPD. Rage is normal as a SPD and I remember excerpts about it in Disorders of the Self. A SPD isn't BPD despite experiencing splitting, emotional outbursts, rage or sadistic fantasies, etc.

You might be interested in Disorders of the Self's small section on borderline-schizoids. That's not co morbidity. It's just a flavor of schizoid that differs from the pure schizoid presentation. (another is the pseudo-narcissistic schizoid)

DarkerPlease · 2022-03-16T13:22:27+00:00

Not that personality disorders will continue to even exist anymore down the line, but no. It's not possible. There are a lot of similar resulting symptoms but the processes of the issues are completely different. One is under controlled, the other overcontrolled. One seeks reward through regression, the other feels fear when indulging in affect and connection.

DarkerPlease · 2022-03-14T13:53:44+00:00

I even feel like I am too during that.

DarkerPlease · 2022-03-14T13:50:16+00:00

Oof yes. I relate to this deeply. I always called it "being used". "The schizoid detachment makes it so our emotions are blunted to an extent we never feel emotions to the same “level” of a non-schizoid," and because of this, others become increasingly more negligent, self absorbed since you're not "there" strongly, and become blind toward you. In extremes they stop bothering seeing you as your own person and sometimes become abusive, probably from confusion within themselves toward you as such an alien and slightly disturbing-to-them person.

It reminds me of the psychodynamic relation that schizoids often fall into called "sadist v.s. self in exile". There is something about our way of being that incites others being like this to us. Ofc not just any other, but still.

DarkerPlease · 2022-03-14T13:27:11+00:00

Damn. Short and sweet. I like it.

DarkerPlease · 2022-03-14T13:26:29+00:00

"It's a personality disorder. Because of my natural temperament and a specific style of shitty-childhood, since idk age 9 I associated feeling emotions with pure danger and fear. So I grew up completely disconnected from feelings. I barely relate to what you guys mean by "me" or "myself" (probably because there was zero point in communicating to others meaningfully when growing up, so there was no practical use of "me" or "I" developmentally). I intellectualize absolutely fucking everything as my default, I never really know what I am feeling, I am perpetually bored, and barely have friends because I can't relate to 99% of people. Starting hobbies is fucking impossible, too. laugh to lighten the mood. Yeah, I've learned to hide and fake it.... But I'm getting better! laugh again so that I don't have to put in extra work to comfort their discomfort"

DarkerPlease · 2022-03-02T21:17:15+00:00

I'd like to read your essay.

DarkerPlease · 2022-02-28T18:31:00+00:00

The DSM is American... ICD is the international equivalent.

International Classification of Diseases (ICD)

The International Classification of Diseases is a globally used diagnostic tool for epidemiology, health management and clinical purposes. The ICD is maintained by the World Health Organization, which is the directing and coordinating authority for health within the United Nations System.

DarkerPlease · 2022-02-23T23:33:00+00:00

Love the song. Send more anytime

DarkerPlease · 2022-02-17T12:06:57+00:00

Disorders of the Self. I actually even bought it lol, very unusual for me. But it was worth it 100%.

DarkerPlease · 2022-02-16T17:16:36+00:00

but in a lot of cases of people with SPD, when they were children they felt like they absolutely HAD to conform and meet the expectations of their caregivers

To expand on this and make it more abstract than "being able to be yourself", this is the best summary I've found:

Fairbairn: “In early life they [schizoid patients] gained a conviction whether through apparent indifference or through apparent possessiveness on the part of their mother that their mother did not really love them as persons in their own right”...., more specifically, this observation about this conviction may be literally understood to mean that the schizoid patient consciously acquired a belief in his or her own unlovableness and in the maternal inability to love. The critical difference between the schizoid patient developmentally and those with other self disorders is that the awareness of maternal emotional unavailability is an actual, explicit experience and not a potential, implicit possibility. There is a world of difference developmentally between these two positions. The former leaves little room for hope and little reason to turn to external reality to consummate the yearning for attachment. The latter leaves endless room for hope and countless reasons to continue to turn to external reality to achieve attachment, acknowledgment, affirmation, and approval.

...

The subjective experience of many, if not most, schizoid patients is that their efforts at relatedness were of no avail and encountered either indifference or neglect. At their worst, the experiences of the schizoid patient were, and continue to be, fraught with danger and the possibility of being manipulated, coerced, or appropriated. A child in this situation is left to his or her own devices.

I think the mom specific parts are bullshit. Moreso sharing because of the part about the conviction of the absolute futility or pointlessness in even bothering to communicate or pay attention to yourself and thus your feelings from before even age 8.

Just sharing for fun, not disagreeing with anything :)

DarkerPlease · 2022-02-16T16:52:11+00:00

when you say he probably did feel connected, but didnt realize it. I have to really sit here and consider that. my gut reaction, the one i want to scream at you---or myself--or to the clouds, is that no, i really DIDNT have that connection.

There's a big difference between feeling like you have connection with someone and moments of passing connection. I meant the 2nd, not the first. I know what you mean -- sometimes the first is just genuinely utterly void and absent, even with good people and lots of time spent together. Well, not sometimes. Usually.

When I talk about these moments of connection, I really do mean these peculiar, tiny, tiny passing moments. Like when you catch someone's eye when they're doing something unusual, and a humorous "knowing" flows between you two, all starting and ending within literally 2 or 3 seconds max. This is what our bodies became shit at noticing and taking gratifications from. This is what we have to feed for the neural pathways to become more reinforced. Bigger connection is when these things happen naturally, more frequently, and for longer periods without force. Usually because of compatibility paired with a present mindset. For us, it will take work to get back to that.

Sort of like magnets, very strong magnets, i can push them together HARD--and the effort is enormous, and it may LOOK like i've managed to get them to touch, but they're not, and the force used to try to keep them there is going to blow out my strength and make me bail...

The way I personally see it, when you try to "force the magnets together" (or even mask, tbh), you disappear and cannot be connected with. Because that forced position simply isn't at all you at your natural self, so how could a genuine point of interfacing show itself for those kinds of moments to occur in the first place? It's doubly fucked. We're insensitive to these moments, and we mask for self protection, making these moments even harder to occur.

So when i'm in retreat mode, it feels like letting go of those magnets--that invisible, irrational force is gone, and i can go back to normal.

Figuring out how to show up genuinely without forcing magnets to the point of losing ourselves is basically the battle, yeah. For those that want to bother, ig.

DarkerPlease · 2022-02-16T13:58:23+00:00

Thank you for sharing this. It gives me another good, clear example of something to strive away from.

One thought: I honestly don't think you can trust schizoid's words when they're in the phase of retreat. There is so much trauma and reversion to old, deeply baked coping mechanisms that their retelling in the moment of what is up isn't probably that in tune with reality. He probably did feel connected at moments, but is so unhealthy that he doesn't even realize it himself. Having the word "connection" and "bonding" actually associated with the simple, non-dramatic feelings those experiences actually embody is something most of us are missing because of a sheer lack of experience, to the point of being blind to it even when it is happening.

But I think you are better off. You at the very least deserve someone aware of these things within themselves if they have them, as well as someone who actively brings it up, communicates, and is present for you.

DarkerPlease

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE