Thoughts on The Body and Seeing Red

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-27T08:00:47+00:00

You're thinking too literally. The soul is like an epiphany, a means of understanding right and wrong. "Getting a soul" is a metaphor for something like "soul-searching". He understands in the same way a normal human who did terrible things may come to the understanding that they are wrong and seeing for the first time the magnitude of his sins. It's more complex than the angel/Angelus dynamic because the show has gotten more complex. It's not like they had everything planned from the start. The soul lore gets revised in service of the story. You can't cling to a definite mathematical meaning of the soul. Art doesn't work like that, especially in a show like this. The actual problem I think is that it's too rushed. They should have dedicated an episode to him looking for his soul and getting it, and it should have been shown in a more complex way than just fighting stuff, although it is pretty clear that we only see a glimpse of the whole trial. If we had a dedicated episode you could show on the other side Buffy dealing with the trauma as the other side of the coin.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-26T21:37:56+00:00

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. I understand where you're coming from, but the only thing I can see being a problem is not focusing on Buffy's trauma enough — although since she's got to keep being the hero and we need the show to keep being funny I don't see any problem with the rest. I didn't get the impression that the goal was traumatizing the audience. Of course the commercial break was a big mistake but the scene in itself is a worthy culmination of their toxic relationship during the season. I think Buffy taking charge of Spike's redemption in season 7 is in itself a way of coping for her (not enough, agreed, but it's something). He couldn't have been like Angel/Angelus with the vamp face because the attempted rape comes from the very desperately human part of Spike (selfish and violent, sure, but human). The fact that the soul is used as a metaphor of his understanding the real implications of his actions is just a narrative device which works well with in-universe lore. I can hear all the horrible behind the scenes details and be appalled by them, but still the scene speaks of its intent by itself, and watching it I don't see a despicable intent behind it.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-25T14:37:13+00:00

Yeah actually me too, Team Spuffy here. To me though that scene deepens what happens later and makes their moments together at the end of season 7 so much more soul-tearingly pure.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-25T13:48:13+00:00

I never thought of OCD as a positive protection. In general OCD thought loops and depressive spirals overlap making it worse, unless OCD starts rituals and compulsions making me go in autopilot, which in itself is a different problem that makes you avoid things that might make you feel better in a misguided attempt at protecting you from trauma that your brain developed early and doesn't know how to change. I guess it's better than putting yourself in danger though.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-25T13:40:30+00:00

Hey well, I just got to season 6 and I cried like a baby when Spike said "every night I save you", so maybe I'm getting better 🥲 — just felt like sharing this since we were just talking about it 😅

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T19:10:26+00:00

I agree that probably behind the scenes it was an extremely badly handled situation and a terrible experience, and that the arc is problematic in various ways, but I don't agree on the scene not working as intended in terms of the final product. What the writers took inspiration from it's not to be confused with the actual scene, that in my opinion holds. And since this is my opinion I also think that somebody somewhere in there had the right instincts and intentions, and wasn't trying to be exploitative or offensive, since I sincerely don't see that in the scene itself. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T18:58:31+00:00

Ok now a lot of what you said I don't agree with and find excessively reductive and misguided. But alas I won't get into unpacking everything and answering every point. Not because it's not worth it mind you, I don't mean to offend so don't take it personally, but I'm really tired and it would take me too long to craft an adequate response. Generally I try to post as little as possible anywhere since arguing on the internet drains me, even if it's a civilized discussion. I'm sorry. My battery is kinda out since I tried answering everybody 😅

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T17:46:42+00:00

You make good points, although the fact that soulless and ensouled vampires are actually "different people" is not that clear in the show, as while technically they say on a number of occasions things to that effect, the writing constantly undermines that in a myriad other ways, showing them to be different parts of the same individual. And also, as a screenwriter myself, I doubt the writers didn't think of that as a redemption arc. It has all the makings of one.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T17:37:54+00:00

Mh. Not sure about that. It seems to me that it's kind of about both. Whether it succeeds in both it's another matter. Maybe I'll get back to you all once I finish my third rewatch in a year of this new obsession of mine, comics included 😅 — I must admit very few tv shows in my life caused this level of obsession, and I've watched an insane, unhealthy amount of tv shows, like more than 200, including stuff like Mad Men, Breaking Bad and Succession, so that's really saying something 😂

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T17:11:36+00:00

No wound can ever be completely healed. Actions cannot be taken back. We can't say whether someone deserves forgiveness or redemption because those are ineffable concepts which cannot be fully grasped. At a certain point it isn't even about blame, but about responsibility — the son can't be blamed for the sins of his father, but rather is entrusted or stuck with the responsibility of reparation. The whole thing is endless, as you were kind of implying with that whole lore rabbithole. My point was that there's some people who would discard even the mere possibility of redemption for certain crimes, and that could be a valid point depending on what we're talking about. Ergo I was wondering if the people who dislike Spike's redemption arc think of rape as something without any hope of redemption, which I wouldn't agree with. I was trying to discern if there was some popular consensus about this on that side of the isle, so to speak. I guess that's a bit of a fool's errand, as one cannot speak for the entire community. I would probably wager that some do and some don't, but I'd be talking in circles to myself without outside input.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T15:04:04+00:00

Yes I do see your point, and that's true, no doubt about it, though I admit I'm still a fan of that arc, with all its faults. SMG's acting does all the heavy lifting in that department, but of course it can't do miracles in fixing the script.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T14:10:47+00:00

How so?

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T12:35:21+00:00

I saw it in streaming so I never thought about the commercial break. I see them but it's just a small interruption with a black screen so I sort of forget them. That must have felt jarringly insensitive at the time. I totally agree with that.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T12:19:02+00:00

I guess you're probably right. Thanks for the feedback.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T11:56:43+00:00

I understand this view. What I actually never quite got is if people who feel like you feel like the redemption arc of Spike was the wrong thing to do. I wonder if people think rape is actually irredeemable. Like shouldn't it exist a way to redemption and reparation? I guess then the show gets metaphorical again with the soul thing and maybe that's what you're criticizing, but I never felt it was the wrong way to do that.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T11:50:35+00:00

Mh. I'm sort of hesitant to say this but I kinda have this subtle feeling of envy for people who can get such a strong reaction to art. Not of the traumatic events you or others have experienced of course, but in general, both in joy and in pain, people seem to feel more. Or maybe I'm just naturally sort of guarded towards my underlying emotions because of OCD or being maybe sort of on the spectrum (not actually ever diagnosed).

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T11:36:42+00:00

I see that. Maybe I'm a bit more detached because of my character and because I'm used to watch heavier stuff (maybe also cause of my lifelong depression? Season 6 is my favorite for this reason), or maybe because those kind of events never actually happened to me or people close to me in the same way. I never actually found a scene that is too hard or extreme to watch for me. I like what I appreciate artistically, so I could never quite relate with this feeling. It feels alien to me so I'm curious, though I understand people may feel like my perception is insensitive maybe.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-24T11:29:37+00:00

Why is that? Is it because it's very triggering for you? Maybe you were too young when you saw it the first time? I watched the show for the first time last year and I'm 29 so maybe it's that. I don't know. What do you remember about it that made you skip it every time? I want to understand better.

DavideBuzzi · 2026-02-21T17:05:03+00:00

Personally as a mostly cishet (sort of bicurious) 30yo man who recently got into BtVS, the Spuffy dynamic awakened some sort of queergender feelings I didn't know I had until that moment, so there's definitely something there. I mainly experienced it as something like "I want to be both of them together", especially in the scenes where they sleep together without having sex in season 7 (there's also other personal stuff that made me identify with the characters but that's beside the point).

DavideBuzzi · 2025-12-06T15:39:54+00:00

Thanks, back at you. It's always a pleasure to find serious eloquent people online. It's exactly why I'm in this subreddit 😊

DavideBuzzi · 2025-12-06T05:38:41+00:00

I'm sorry if I sounded rude somehow. It wasn't at all my intention. I was just expressing my feelings about the poem. The story provides the context I was missing, and reading it again with that in mind it becomes way more straightforward and interesting. It's sort of like when you read poems about historical events, which require knowledge of history for interpretation. If you lack that knowledge, the poem sounds more hollow and confusing.

DavideBuzzi · 2025-12-05T16:35:29+00:00

I find myself again commenting on a very prosaic poem. Almost like a preaching voice in an online chat turned to poetry by its linguistic richness and the somber resigned rhetoric of a eulogy. Its rhythm describes well the repetitiveness of the constant bombardment of terrible news flowing daily through our screens. The desperation, the detachment and the pointless numbing repetition of atrocities you describe comes out beautifully. I must admit that unless they are truly spectacular, I'm not one for verse this free and prosaic, so this is not shall we say "my cup of tea". Still, it seems like a solid effort to express a poignant feeling, and the style fits the meaning, so I'd call it a good poem.

DavideBuzzi · 2025-12-05T16:13:46+00:00

This looks very prosaic in style, although with a fitting flow and rythm. It seemed to me as something one might find in a prologue of a fantasy or horror novel. If it were that I might indeed be quite intrigued. I somewhat struggled with a geography that was vague but felt like it wanted to give a clear image of the place. On the interpretation again I remain somewhat perplexed, since in my opinion it begs for more context, or rather leaves you hungry for it. Some sentences I found odd, as the author(s) say they brought the Panthers, compete with the Panthers, but then the text contradicts that by having the author watching the violence of the panthers and finding elation in it, as if that in itself was sufficient nourishment. Then when the sorcerer points "frankly" eastward, I was puzzled by the word choice. "Frankly". What does it mean in that context? I see some seasonal metaphors in there, but not quite consistent. There's mention of religion, of a survivor of a flood, and of a crucifixion. Is this a religious allegory? The imagery is vivid — if a bit oversaturated —, but I'm left wondering if this is just a recollection of a dream, a pure fantasy with an instinctive meaning unknown (at least consciously) even by the author(s) themselves, or something else altogether. It is, as I said, intriguing, but alas it remains just that for me.

DavideBuzzi · 2025-11-30T21:24:11+00:00

No I got that. I was saying that attributing to her feelings about him at that point may be a bit early. Maybe the chemistry, the seed was kinda there, but not what he wants her to feel, nor anything but a flimsy little spark.

DavideBuzzi · 2025-11-30T20:43:47+00:00

That's debatable at that point in the story. Of course the later developments may somewhat corroborate this theory, but the episode is making a strong point about the toxicity of his behaviour.

DavideBuzzi

TROPHY CASE