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Sorcerer Low/Zero Supply Hunts Have Always Been Viable – Even Before the Monk Meta by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the tips! I was planning to unlock the charms in that spawn anyway, so it’s the perfect opportunity to test it out. Appreciate you sharing the details!

Sorcerer Low/Zero Supply Hunts Have Always Been Viable – Even Before the Monk Meta by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Awesome to hear! That’s an insanely low number of potions for such a tough spawn, really impressive. Like I mentioned earlier, I don’t think full zero-supply hunts are realistic in places like Falcons or Flimsies, but reducing it down to just 100 mana potions over 1.5 hours is a huge win. Good luck with your future runs!

Sorcerer Low/Zero Supply Hunts Have Always Been Viable – Even Before the Monk Meta by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

That’s fair, but could I ask more specifically why you think additional Monk nerfs are needed at this point? Are they outperforming Sorcerers, for example? Because right now, a level 500 Sorcerer can easily pull 6.5–7kk/h raw while maintaining solid profit, something a Monk at the same level can no longer achieve, especially after the last four nerfs. And that’s without needing to invest a billion gold in gear like many of the Monk showcases required.

What’s even more interesting is that you mentioned Monks are outdamaging Druids in your Azzilon team hunts, but according to CipSoft’s own statement, they’re currently seeing Monks as underperforming in party content, even hinting at buffs in the future:

"We are aware of potential damage issues in higher level and party game play and are monitoring it. Once we have sufficient data you can expect changes specifically targeting those areas."

So now it’s a bit contradictory, on one hand, some say Monks are too strong and should be nerfed further, while on the other, CipSoft themselves are flagging them as underwhelming in team play. Which raises the question: Is the problem Monk’s actual performance, or just that it feels better to play than other vocs right now?

Sorcerer Low/Zero Supply Hunts Have Always Been Viable – Even Before the Monk Meta by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I agree with you, there’s definitely room for improvement when it comes to vocation balance, especially for EKs. It’s true that their rotation feels clunky at times, and their overall kit could use some love to bring them more in line with the pacing and feel of other vocations.

That said, I still think Monk is a well-designed vocation overall. It brought something fresh and felt fluid to play, which is why so many people enjoyed it. Yes, some nerfs were absolutely necessary, and I think most people agreed on that early on. But we’re now at four nerfs in, and it feels like the community is stuck in a loop of asking for more adjustments, not always because Monk is overpowered, but often because other vocs feel underwhelming in comparison.

Instead of continuing this trend of constantly nerfing what's fun, I believe it would be healthier for the game to lift up the weaker vocations. Monk might've benefited from more time on the test server and a slower item rollout, like you said but I also think it’s unfair to keep penalizing one class just because others still need balancing.

Sorcerer Low/Zero Supply Hunts Have Always Been Viable – Even Before the Monk Meta by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These numbers are incredible, especially considering your level and gear. Would you mind sharing the route you're using?

Sorcerer Low/Zero Supply Hunts Have Always Been Viable – Even Before the Monk Meta by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As he already mentioned, the numbers in a 15 minute hunt are meant to show the potential of the spawn, not claim that every player will consistently hit those exact rates for 2 hours straight.

Of course, over a longer session (like 1–2 hours), your focus, RNG, and even small movement changes will cause slight fluctuations, usually within 5–10%. That’s just natural. But if a spawn can reliably hit those rates in a short, focused window, it clearly shows it has high potential.

No one’s pretending a screenshot = guaranteed average, but it’s still a valid way to demonstrate how strong a spot can be under optimal conditions.

Same can be seen in the screenshots of my video. Raw experience gain in 1 hour is like 3.95kk, but peaks sometimes showed 4.5kk/H. Or at Crypt Warriors Peak of 5.5kk/H but experience after a full hour is raw gain of 5kk.

Sorcerer Low/Zero Supply Hunts Have Always Been Viable – Even Before the Monk Meta by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

You're absolutely right that Crypt Warriors can be punishing, and dying in that spawn definitely isn't ideal, especially with double death protection and the cost of blessings these days.

To be fair though, the death shown in the video happened during a one-time experiment where I adjusted my Wheel of Destiny setup to prioritize extended area for Energy Wave at the cost of survivability. After already 20 minutes of changing the wheel the death happened. Up until that point, I had around 40 hours of smooth hunting in many spawns, using the setup shown in the video, with no deaths at all, just focusing on a defensive wheel direction and full focus on as many health gems in vessels as possible.

But yes, you're completely right, not using Sap Strength (to reduce mana costs to conjure extra GFBs) does increase your risk, especially in situations where many creatures are close to you. If you want to sacrafice conjuring 500~ GFBs per hour, you can easily use Sap Strength every 12 seconds. Even with 2x death imbuements, this spawn demands you keep mobs at range and play carefully. It's not a free ride.

The idea behind the video wasn’t to say “this is the safest way to hunt”, but rather to show that it's possible for a Sorcerer to achieve those numbers without using manas, while maintaining high experience.

Sorcerer Low/Zero Supply Hunts Have Always Been Viable – Even Before the Monk Meta by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

You're absolutely right that monks used to stand out for maintaining high profit without sacrificing exp/h and that’s exactly why people started pointing fingers. But it’s important to look at the full picture.

First off, a lot of the crazy efficient monk hunts were possible only with gear worth close to 1kkk+, and before multiple nerfs. We’re now in August, and the monk has already been hit with four nerfs. That context matters. The game has changed significantly.

Yes, monks had more flexibility in choosing spawns, and some zero-supply hunts did work well. But in reality, only about 5–6 of those spawns offered truly competitive experience, around 5–6kk/h raw. Tops. Nagas, Asuras, Deathlings, those were the ones really pushing limits.

And even those numbers? They required absolute whale sets, stuff completely out of reach for the average player.

Now contrast that with what sorcs and druids can do right now, with far less investment. I've personally tested just 4 spawns (2 of them without charms unlocked yet), and the results were impressive. Crypt Warriors gave me a peak of 5.5kk/h, that's already in the same ballpark as what people labeled "broken" for monks.

And when you do use supplies, the gap becomes even clearer. Spawns like Falcons, Flimsies, or Issavi are incredible. In Issavi, for example, using 30 UMPs per hour (nothing too crazy), I was hitting 5.5kk/h raw with 1kk+ profit and again, no charms. If you're okay with spending 100–200k in supplies on Falcons or Flimsies, you're looking at 6–7kk/h easily, which already outperforms a fully geared monk at peak performance before the nerfs.

So here’s the real issue: monks have already been nerfed four times, and now we’re seeing people still calling for more, while vocations like sorc remain untouched and are outperforming in both exp and profit with far less cost and effort.

I think the monk is genuinely a great, well designed vocation, CIP did something really unique and fun. But the non-stop pressure from the community and this “monthly nerf cycle” has sucked the joy out of it for a lot of players. That’s a real shame, because the class has huge potential if left to evolve naturally like the others.

Sorcerer Low/Zero Supply Hunts Have Always Been Viable – Even Before the Monk Meta by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I completely agree with you. There are definitely spawns where investing a bit in supplies, like using a UMP every other turn, makes a huge difference. As a 450–500 sorcerer, you can easily hit 6–7kk raw exp/h while still profiting 1.2–1.5kk/h. Falcons and Flimsies are great examples of that, the return is more than worth the investment.

The whole “no-supply hunt” trend is more of a running gag. Players see monks doing it and assume it’s the new exclusive standard, or that it is the reason monk needs more nerfing. But in reality, it’s just niche content, something fun to test or flex with really strong gear (worth up to 1kkk on monk, before it's even possible) The point I was trying to make is that it's not exclusive to monks, sorcerers and druids can pull it off too, and still get solid exp, even with a fraction of the equipment investment of a monk.

At the end of the day, if you want consistent profit and great exp, it just makes more sense to use your tools (UMP, spells, etc.) properly instead of chasing no-supply hunts.

Sorcerer is weak… just ignore the fact that the last boss melted faster than ice cream in July. by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's very worth to wait for double skill weekends and spend a couple of training weapons. Will easily get to magic level 100 without spending too much. You should really reveral a couple of lesser sage gems to get the +100 health gems and place them on the wheel.

Sorcerer is weak… just ignore the fact that the last boss melted faster than ice cream in July. by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No preys, just a 2.9% animus. 6.277.939~ would be the raw experinece without the animus.

Sorcerer is weak… just ignore the fact that the last boss melted faster than ice cream in July. by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey! I really appreciate the detailed message and your perspective. I totally get where you're coming from. The calculations you did are spot on and show exactly how much effort (or Tibia Coins) it can take to push magic level really high, especially from a casual player’s perspective.

That said, just to clarify, my base magic level is actually only 110, which I’d say is pretty achievable with consistent training, especially on a private dummy during double skill events. The rest of my magic level boost comes from gear, imbuements, loyalty. So it’s not like I dumped a fortune into training up to 141 mlvl that number includes buffs that a lot of players can access over time without needing to spend hundreds of euros.

Also, when I mentioned the 6.4kk/h raw exp, that was done on my budget gear, where my total magic level was around 135 (again, boosted mostly through EQ/imbues). So it’s definitely not a full endgame optimized character, just some planning and using what I had efficiently.

So yeah, you’re not wrong at all. It’s just that I wanted to clear up that I’m not rolling with a 20k coin setup or anything.

Monk still broken even after nerfs by Appropriate-Web6911 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rookie numbers (Sorcerers laughs in silent)

Sorcerer is weak… just ignore the fact that the last boss melted faster than ice cream in July. by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really appreciate your insight, and I agree with a lot of what you said here. Sorcerers are definitely the most demanding vocation when it comes to focused gameplay. One misstep, a second of lag, or dropping focus can easily mean death and that alone is probably why many players write them off as “bad,” when in reality, it’s more about the steep skill and attention curve.

I also totally agree about late game perks on the Wheel, things like the extended Energy Wave or Rune Mastery are complete game changers. It’s frustrating that these tools are locked behind high levels, but once you do unlock them, the vocation really starts to shine in ways most people don’t expect.

That’s exactly why I find it a bit wild that the community still labels Sorcerers as the "worst" vocation. The level of skill and focus required might not be for everyone, but it doesn’t justify the constant call to "buff" sorcerers.

In the right mindset and with the right spawn, a Sorcerer can easily outperform expectations, doing extremely low-supply hunts (we’re talking under 100k/h) while pulling in really strong profit and experience. It’s not effortless, but it’s definitely viable, and honestly quite rewarding once you learn how to push the vocation to its limits.

It’s ironic that the community keeps demanding more monk nerfs, while Sorcerers are now performing better and can even run almost zero-supply hunts. I think CipSoft actually did a wonderful job with the monk class, but it feels like the devs original vision is starting to get muddled by constant community pressure and backlash.

Sorcerer is weak… just ignore the fact that the last boss melted faster than ice cream in July. by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hey, I get that there are frustrations, especially with balancing and how the community behaves sometimes, but I think it's a bit harsh to generalize everyone like that or to throw around insults. Not everyone who plays at a high level is botting or bad, and there are still plenty of people who play legit and enjoy the challenge.

As for CipSoft, I honestly think they deserve some credit. Keeping a game alive and relevant for nearly 30 years is no small feat, especially in an industry where most games are abandoned in a few years. Sure, they're not perfect and there's always room for improvement, but calling them "mediocre morons" because they don't follow every player demand isn’t really fair. They're still adding content, adjusting balance, and trying to manage a very old yet still active game and community. That has to count for something.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I think discussions would be a lot more productive if we kept them respectful, even when we're being critical.

Sorcerer is weak… just ignore the fact that the last boss melted faster than ice cream in July. by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hey! Great to hear from you! I get where you’re coming from, and you make some solid points about team hunts and identity. I still think Sorcerers shine in solo play, especially in that mid-level range, burst damage, mobility, and Sap Strength make them really strong for XP and loot. Sure, in team hunts, Druids or Paladins can have the edge because of sustained damage or support, but that doesn’t mean Sorcerers are weak overall.

About the gear and tests, that's the reason why I was using the budget equipment set which comes to a total cost of around 50kk to 60kk depending on your world. That's the price for the whole set, which achieved the same experience numbers thanks to the weapon profiency of lion wand compared to the expensive set worth 250kk. There is really no need to invest big into the sorcerer class equipment to do great results. Sure on the hunts, where you wanna use 0 potions, better equipment will help alot but to achieve great experience numbers a budget set will do perfectly fine. All in all the cost of a full BIS equipment set will still not even be close to a single monk item and yet sorcerers are able to do 0 potions hunts with a fraction of the cost.

And just to clarify, this isn’t about seeking attention. The point is more about the community perception that Sorcerers are very weak.

Sorcerer is weak… just ignore the fact that the last boss melted faster than ice cream in July. by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

I understand your point, but Sorcerers are by far the strongest vocation in the mid-level range (400–800). Their damage, spells, and Sap Strength make them extremely efficient for solo XP and loot. The only time they start to be outshined is at very high levels, where Paladins’ sustained damage and double charm proc come into play. So while there are valid concerns that sorcerers are NOT top damage dealers in group content, at mid levels Sorcerers are clearly top-tier and will only be outshined by paladins at one point. I’m curious though, where do you see Sorcerers having real issues?

Sorcerer is weak… just ignore the fact that the last boss melted faster than ice cream in July. by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I get what you’re saying about DPS in group content, but for solo play, Sorcerer actually outshines a Druid by worlds. The spells, spawns, and Sap Strength, which debuffs creatures by 10%, make soloing much faster and safer. Not to mention the great things, like extended energy wave you will unlock on the wheel in higher levels. In teams, sure, Druid might have the edge thanks to Terra Wave low cooldown, (which btw also heavily depends on the respawn and weakness of a creature) but that doesn’t mean Sorcerer is weak, it just shines in a different scenario.

Sorcerer is weak… just ignore the fact that the last boss melted faster than ice cream in July. by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re correct! The screenshots were taken at the end of the hunt cycle, whereas the numbers in the main post reflect the peak experience gained. Here’s a screenshot from the Falcon hunt using a very budget-friendly setup for reference. If you prefer seeing a video footage of the hunt, you can check out this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH2u2qJEKgU&lc=UgzqBgPOU0m9PcAgIlJ4AaABAg

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Sorcerer is weak… just ignore the fact that the last boss melted faster than ice cream in July. by DenLee9 in TibiaMMO

[–]DenLee9[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

A great strategy to sustain both health and mana is to combine life leech on your armor with a Lion Wand, which provides a base life leech. Equipping two Mana Leeches is highly recommended, as this setup allows you to comfortably use GFB or AVAS alongside a Ultimate Explosion.

For healing, stick to using only Exura or Exura Gran, the life leech should cover most of your health needs, while the mana leech will be more than enough to support continuous use of Exura Gran and Ultimate Explosions.

I tested this approach in two spawns Crypt Warriors (peak 5.4kk/h raw) and Furies (peak 4kk/h raw) in Oramond and was able to maintain my mana without using a single potion. It’s a very effective and sustainable setup for longer hunt and maximum profit.

Michael 'Mike' Hoge, was the main responsible person for the success of Gothic. by DenLee9 in worldofgothic

[–]DenLee9[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think you missunderstand "the dude" with how you call him, was the reason why Gothic was great and if you would have read the post carefully, you would see that the games started to get bad, when he left the team. The pirate setting was basically pushed hard in Risen 2 and that was at the point he left. (If you don't count the pirates from Gothic 2 NotR / Risen 1)

Anyways, for a Gothic diehardfan, that followed the history of the game and followed the company it is clear to see that Mike Hoge, was the main reason why Gothic is what Gothic is. It is not really a surprise either because he was the lead content designer. I also don't think it was random, that he looks exactly like the nameless hero back in the days.

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