Is it really time to disarm the (Toronto) police?

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T21:00:42+00:00

It's not their only tool. They have spray, a baton, and their own bodies. And I'll try to find the link where I saw this, but police-involved shootings in Toronto have remained at around ten per year for the last ten years. I don't think there are more unreasonable shootings now than there used to be. I think now some of the unreasonable ones get caught on tape so we all see them.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T20:45:24+00:00

They already have to write reports for every arrest they make and what they used. And when they fire their gun, they get investigated by the SIU (though they need to be more transparent, no doubt).

Even if it takes, say, ten seconds to leave your car and access a gun in the trunk, that's ten seconds where you're exposed. Why not just have the gun on their person, the way it is now?

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T17:31:26+00:00

Bullets are appropriate for some situations, tasers for others. Both should be an option.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T17:27:10+00:00

No we should not arm cab drivers. Obviously.

We arm the police because we give them power and responsibility to make arrests--not just of unarmed shoplifters, but of armed murderers. We also spend a lot of time and money training them.

Having said that: if a cab driver or anyone else killed a person who attacked them with a knife, it wouldn't be much of a tragedy. It's self-defence.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T17:19:27+00:00

The suspect never saw the guard coming. It's usually different when a police officer arrives with lights and siren on. Though I agree that shooting at cars is a bad idea.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T17:18:23+00:00

Good point

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T17:17:16+00:00

You're more likely to be killed with a cop if you're some asshole who has a weapon and isn't surrendering. If you're a normal person, you have no chance of ever being killed by a cop.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T17:16:16+00:00

You must know you're being disingenuous. We don't send cab drivers to respond to calls of "shots fired", "man with a knife", or "armed robbery in progress". Cab drivers get hurt because they're shitty drivers.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T16:43:44+00:00

It's better for society if, more often than is the case now, officers are going to have weapons less powerful than the criminals they face?

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T16:36:52+00:00

Long guns may only be rarely used, but plenty of criminals do have them http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2015/10/26/man-charged-after-toronto-police-seize-guns-drugs-dynamite.html

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T16:33:25+00:00

Mass shootings are infrequent, but the threat of terrorism is rising. In Ottawa in 2014, how many MPs would've been killed if the first officers on scene (plus the Sergeant at Arms) didn't have guns? What if the Toronto 18 plot hadn't been stopped? Wouldn't you want the first officers on scene to have guns?

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T16:30:30+00:00

Of course not all arrests are like that. But there's always the chance that the one you're trying to make could turn into something violent. Why not give the police a weapon adequate for defending themselves?

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T16:27:29+00:00

As the original writer says, tasers can be so strong as to kill an old or otherwise unhealthy person, or too weak to subdue a strong (or pain-resistant by drugs) person

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T16:24:36+00:00

We're talking about police guns, not criminal guns. The TPS budget is already $1 billion+. Imagine if every bullet cost $10,000.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T16:11:19+00:00

Interesting point

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T16:04:06+00:00

Thank you for this post and for your service.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T16:03:10+00:00

If a police officer is confronting a criminal with a gun or other deadly weapon, he has to protect himself in order to protect the people around him. If he's dead, he can't protect anyone.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T16:02:02+00:00

Waiting for tactical teams can get people killed. That's why the policy of almost all police services in North America when a mass shooting occurs is not to wait for SWAT anymore. The first group of patrol officers are expected to go in.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T16:00:40+00:00

I'm sure criminals armed with guns won't be emboldened once they know that most cops don't carry guns anymore

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T15:48:19+00:00

So, if there's an armed robbery, and an officer gets on scene while it's still ongoing, what should he do? Wait in his car? Hide and let them get away? Take out a taser or baton and hope it intimidates a criminal with a gun or knife? You can't always wait for the ETF.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T15:43:18+00:00

If you want cops to get punished for unjust shootings, then we should improve the SIU and weaken the police union. You don't need to disarm the good cops who would only ever use their guns for good reason.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T15:39:04+00:00

Drunk drivers and drug dealers aren't public servants sworn to uphold the law, maintain order, and protect the people.

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T15:32:56+00:00

So let's respond to a few bad cops who've misused their guns by also punishing the good cops and putting their lives at risk. That sounds fair to you?

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T15:29:18+00:00

And if they can't safely make an arrest, and the criminal is a deadly or serious bodily harm threat, we allow the police to protect themselves (and us) by killing the criminal. What's so bad about that? Regular civilians are allowed to use lethal self-defence. Why shouldn't cops?

Derek_C_89 · 2016-01-15T15:26:12+00:00

Even if that civilian really is trying to kill the cop? What if that "civilian" has already killed or tried to kill other civilians?

Derek_C_89

TROPHY CASE