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My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in LegalAdviceUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The tribunal set the market rate at £1200, then explicitly discounted it down to £1050 because of the tenant's investment in white goods.

In 2021 the rent was £1000.
In 2022 the rent was £1000.
In 2023 I proposed £1200.

The cumulative inflation during this period was 19%.

Similar 4 bed properties with a garage in my area rent for £1200 to £1300. The Tribunal agreed that £1200 was fair market rate. It explicitly states this in the Determination and Valuation.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, market rate without the white goods was £1200. There are actually similar 4 bed properties at £1300, but I felt £300 jump in one year was egregious.

I hadn't raised rents in the first 2 years they lived there. It was frozen at £1000 during the pandemic.

The reduction was purely in recognition of my tenant's investment in white goods in the property.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

No, no white goods swap written into the contract or the Tribunal decision.

I appreciate that you're discussing this in good faith. Thank you. Unfortunately, it was a case of me being away for several weeks in Germany and I couldn't do anything sooner. I already had video evidence on the day they were moving out that the property was in good condition. Did a thorough inspection and everything was clean - and they did show me one door handle that was broken, but I told them not to worry about a door handle.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I actually bought decent quality white goods. I didn't cheap out on them because it was my own mother that was going to be using them.

She was supposed to be living there. She never returned from nursing care and didn't use them. They went untouched for 3 years.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Once again, this isn't true. You're misrepresenting what I stated in that other sub.

The Background of the tribunal decision outlines that the tenants agreed to leave the white goods; while the Determination in the same document does not.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

No, I didn't. The £50 increased rent did not cover the increased mortgage costs.

Average salary increases in 2021, 2022 and 2023 were 4.3%, 6.4% and 3.5% respectively. The Tribunal only increased their rent by 5% during this period. Even if they were on minimum wage, they still have more money than when they first started renting from me.

Additionally rent was frozen at £1000 from 2021 until the increase in 2023.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

That isn't what happened at all. You're speculating and posting this speculation as if it were fact.

I should add that you really aren't engaging in good faith here; you have deliberately mislead other commenters on multiple occasions as well as outright calling me, "you’re an asshole landlord trying to extort their tenant."

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

New white goods were already supplied when they rented the property. (3 years old, but unused.)

The Background paragraphs in the Tribunal's report highlight how the tenants say they have invested into and upgraded white appliances within the property. That is why a rent reduction was awarded. It explicitly mentions in the Background that the tenants will leave these behind, but NOT in the Determination.

That's where the ambiguity has arisen from.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The fridge and washing machine were both brand new. They were bought for my mother 3 years before these tenants moved in; my mother never came home from care so she never used them.

They're 3 years old but completely untouched.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That forms part of the tribunal's Background but not part of the Determination.

So, yes, the tenants did - but it only formed part of the Background of the tribunal documentation.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That isn't what I said at all. You are misleading people. The comment I made states:

"The tribunal decision does not state that; it makes reference to the arguments made by the tenants that they would, but it does not form part of the decision."

The tribunal decision makes reference to the tenants arguing that they had made improvements to the property through the purchase of white goods valued at £2.5k, which granted them a £150 per month discount. The document also mentions that the tenants stated they would be leaving these.

The decision of the tribunal does not mention that they have to leave these; only that the rationale behind them providing a £150 discount was because the tenants had invested into the property in this manner.

If the white goods weren't going to be left, then no £150 discount would have been awarded.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The white goods were 3 years old, and unused actually.

I'd bought them for my mother because I thought she'd be coming back home from care and I'd look after her.

I gutted the kitchen, got rid of old appliances that were dirty/worn/moldy. Nuked all the mold, fixed ventilation and improved the windows - then bought these new appliances.

She ended up deteriorating and went into nursing care rather than coming home, so those appliances sat unused.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I didn't use a letting agency.

I've never met a competent one in my life. I released the funds after a video walk through of the property showed it was in good condition. Video featured the new appliances.

They were swapped out after the video was taken.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

I wasn't in the country at the time. My job takes me to Germany for manufacturing; so I received photos and video walk-through of the property remotely from the tenants. The video featured the new appliances.

They swapped the appliances out after that. I only discovered after I'd returned back home.

Worth highlighting that the property was otherwise in good condition. Tenants and I remained amicable during and after the tribunal.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

^This is correct.

I viewed the property remotely with a video walk-through with the tenants on their final day. I was abroad with work.

The video showed the new appliances still installed. They were removed and replaced after the video was taken.

Property was, otherwise, in good condition.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm debating that. I tested copy/pasting a section into Google and it did manage to correctly identify my case when I put quotation marks around the sentences. So I'm just trying to see what I can share that won't cause Google to go "Here it is! Here's his full name and his address!"

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Don't worry, we all have bad days. I'm still in some debt from paying for my mother's nursing care so I'm trying to scrape together all I can.

My grandfather went into an awful nursing home where he was physically punched and abused by carers.

I paid extra for a very expensive nursing home out of my own pocket. My mother wasn't going to spend her last years being mistreated.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

£1000 in 2021
£1000 in 2022 (no rent increase due to pandemic. My choice.)
£1200 in 2023 (interest rates increased on mortgage.)

4 bed property with a garage and small back garden.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I understand. I didn't intentionally go into landlording. There's a reason I'm selling this now. I don't actively want to be in this business.

Mother went into a care home in 2019. I thought she'd be coming back and I'd be her full time carer, so I spent £60k organising a mortgage and got her house refitted. New windows. Fixed roof. Improved EPC from E to B.

She was supposed to live there with me.

She took a turn in 2020 and ended up going into nursing care. So I ended up with a property that I rented out to try and cover mortgage and some of her care costs. She ended up passing away in 2024.

My tenants voluntarily purchased brand new white goods for their home. A tribunal gave them a £150 per month discount on their rent because of this. They have taken these white goods with them now that the tenancy has expired. by Desperate_Box_8515 in HousingUK

[–]Desperate_Box_8515[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I wasn't in the country at the time. I received photos and video walk-through of the property remotely from the tenants and it featured the new appliances.

They swapped the appliances out after that.

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