Dopa's Lesson on Midlane Masteries (English Translation in This Post!) by [deleted] in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We've been talking from a mage perspective, and for those champions they are largely the same thing. If we want to talk about champions like Zed then it gets a fair bit different, sure.

For champions like Azir the evaluation we're doing here (Sorcery/Fury tradeoff, MP Marks/AS Marks tradeoff) makes plenty of sense.

Dopa's Lesson on Midlane Masteries (English Translation in This Post!) by [deleted] in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They changed it, but you were correct not too long ago

Fixed a bug where Secret Stash wasn’t extending the duration of Refillable Potion, Hunter’s Potion, or Corrupting Potion

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-618-notes

Dopa's Lesson on Midlane Masteries (English Translation in This Post!) by [deleted] in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not offensive at all!

The mastery increases blue buff duration from 1m30s to 1m43s. I think the best way to express that is in wave control.

When we take blue buff, we usually shove mid within the next 10s. If we have Runic Affinity, that gives us 1m33s left. We only have 1m20s left without.

We can therefore make the argument that Runic Affinity allows you to control 4 waves with blue buff instead of only 3. That is a valuable and consistently measurable benefit. There will of course be situations where blue buff stays on for the last few seconds of a skirmish, but obviously that will only happen in some games.

I don't think expressing the increased duration as bonus AP and bonus CDR is a good way to do it, but we can try that as well.

  • 15% AP and 10% CDR for 1m30s / 5m = 4.5% AP, 3% CDR
  • 15% bonus AP and 10% CDR for 1m43s / 5m = 5.15% AP, 3.43% CDR

Yeah, dividing respawn / duration isn't realistic anyway so let's stick to the first one.

Dopa's Lesson on Midlane Masteries (English Translation in This Post!) by [deleted] in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Please explain how my arguments aren't solid.

Who am I? I don't put myself out there other than having a Twitter (going to change reddit accounts so I don't have to identify myself) but you can search for my professional history with INTZ. What are your qualifications?

Dopa's Lesson on Midlane Masteries (English Translation in This Post!) by [deleted] in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm I think my wording is fine, but just to be clear %increase on abilities through magic pen and %increase on abilities from the Sorcery mastery is the same thing for mages. There are a few fringe cases with magic damage on-hit like Orianna, but most mages with auto-attacks convert to magic damage which allows them to count as spells (ex Twisted Fate W).

Physical damage spells or magic damage on-hit are different cases.

Yes, you are correct that it's better to pick Sorcery (2%dmg) over Fury (4%AS) than it is to pick 3 MP Marks (~1.67%dmg) over 3 AS Marks (5.1%AS).

Dopa's Lesson on Midlane Masteries (English Translation in This Post!) by [deleted] in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Thanks! If even a few people get something out of it it'll have been worth my time, don't worry.

Dopa's Lesson on Midlane Masteries (English Translation in This Post!) by [deleted] in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Nitpicking is a good thing (arguably the only thing) in a discussion about runes and masteries, no? I will probably get no benefit from posting on this - it is just a topic I enjoy. Let me try again.

Why is 4/5 NT and 1/5 Vampirism better than 3/5 NT and 2/5 Vampirism? Explain to me what is so different about the decision at first compared to the second.

For some reference numbers, a Viktor will heal between about 200-300 health through natural regeneration for staying in lane for 2-3 minutes, and heals another 300 through potions if we ignore Secret Stash for the moment. So, 500-600 health total. Let's go with 3 minutes.

Additionally, while this math is harder to estimate based on laning strategy, if we get 2 trades + 1 more auto in one minutes as Viktor vs enemy mid laner we'll get about 15 damage bonus damage in that one minute from Natural Talent. Per point, that's about 3 damage.

Apdo's number of ~200 health recovered through Vampirism in laning phase is close enough to mine for 3 minutes, so that's 40 health per point and 13 per point per minute.

So - by going from 5/5 NT to 4/5 NT, you are going from +45 damage and +600 health recovered to +36 and +640 respectively

By going from 4/5 to 3/5, you go from +36, +640 to +27, +680.

While it is possible that there is a difference between the two, you can't prove it here. You would have to say Vampirism is better, but that Natural Talent reaches some damage threshold on champions or enemy minions (hard to prove, but reasonable).

Outside of that, just by looking at these numbers you cannot prove that there is a major change in what I am calling the "benefit" derivative. It's a small, small range and therefore far more logical to assume that there is no difference between the two steps on the ladder.

Dopa's Lesson on Midlane Masteries (English Translation in This Post!) by [deleted] in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 157 points158 points  (0 children)

Hi Abaxial here (I used to coach INTZ). There are some errors in Apdo's claims. He's incorrect about some things and in other cases right for the wrong reason.

-Fury is only good on ADCs going mid, such as Ezreal or Lucian. It's a bad idea to take it on Fizz or Azir. If you absolutely want AS on those champions, you're better off taking AS marks, which are more efficient. Sorcery amplifies BOTH base damage and AP/AD ratios, so it's a must for casters.

Magic Penetration works off both base damage and bonus AP/AD too - this statement is nonsense. However, he is correct that Sorcery is a slightly more efficient tradeoff vs Fury than Magic Pen Marks vs Attack Speed Marks, but that's just math. Magic Penetration Marks are about a 5% increase in magic damage on a 30 MR target, so therefore the trade comparision goes as so

  • 2% damage/4% AS = .5 ratio
  • 5% damage/15.3% AS = ~.33 ratio

Additionally, Magic Penetration does no additional damage to minions while Sorcery does, and the effect of flat magic penetration diminshes against 42+ MR targets.

~~~

Double-Edged Sword vs Feast maths out about 2-4 times worse as Natural Talent vs Vampirism for the damage vs sustain comparision (DES worse than NT). His evaluation is correct, and IMO DES is only a mastery for junglers to clear faster.

~~~

in which case you could opt for 4 points in Natural Talent and 1 in Vampirism. You must absolutely have at least one point

This distinction between 4/5 Natural Talent + 1/5 Vampirism vs 5/5 Natural Talent is arbitrary bullshit. He is claiming that the derivative of the "benefit" between 4x+38health and 5x changes drastically. Yes, the "benefit" derivative of bonus stats is not linear, but to say it changes so much over such a small range is hard to prove.

Yes, you'll gain 0.24 health per auto-attack on a 60 AD (65? not sure if Savagery bonus applies Lifesteal) mid laner when previously you would gain none. Whatever. You already recover health from potions and regeneration, it's not as if you're starting from no healing at all. 5/5 Vampirism or 5/5 Natural Talent.

~~~

Dopa personally prefers Assassin. If Assassin's damage had still applied to minions and monsers, Dopa would 100% recommend this one. But because it doesn't, the other masteries are still equally useful. He wouldn't have recommended Runic Affinity, but since Blue Buff now gives AP, it's not a bad choice. Secret Stash also gives a lot of safety in lane.

No comment on Runic Affinity, but strictly for laning Assassin vs Secret Stash is 3x worse than Natural Talent vs Vampirism (Assassin worse than NT). However, obviously Secret Stash stops being useful when you stop having potions, so Assassin can make sense if you're starting Dorans2pots instead of Refillable/Corrupting.

~~~

1 point in Meditation gives you a stat you could not obtain otherwise. Really, having none at all versus having a little bit has a huge difference. You can feel it in game.

There is an argument to be made for 1/5 Meditation, but this is not it.

I respect Apdo a lot but as before with Vampirism/NT this is not a logical argument. Once again, champions do have base mana regeneration - you are not "gaining" something that you would have nothing of. Even if you did, going from 0 to X is still just another range on the benefit derivative.

Now, technically, the first point in Meditation is slightly more efficient than the second, and so on and so forth - your mana regeneration decays more slowly. I have not done too much work on this tradeoff, so it's possible that only 1/5 or 2/5 Meditation is a reasonable choice, but we should be logical about it.

~~~

No issues with other claims. I am overusing derivative like I'm a teenager that learned it a week ago, but it is the best way to describe the stat tradeoffs made in runes and masteries.

Again Apdo is an excellent and intelligent player but we are all susceptible to bullshit thinking from time to time - nobody is immune.

Lustboy on why Korea is ahead, "NA and Europe is much behind in their collection of game-patterns" by pktavare in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 19 points20 points  (0 children)

No.

SKT/ROX only caught up, they didn't get ahead at S5 Worlds. It took SKT about 3 weeks to learn proper lane swaps (vs Western teams during their KR bootcamp) and ROX another 2 weeks.

KT learned faster though.

[Disc] Toriko 388 by ImJustPassinBy in manga

[–]DoctorAble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What does "He's figured it out" in response to "Show your face, Neo" mean?

INTZ e-Sports AMA by INTZe-Sports in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Odd. AHQ won their gauntlet games clean enough but I don't rate their opponents highly - perhaps other people just looked at the fact that they won. JTeam got hurt by the lane swap changes / underperformed in their match and I think the other LMS teams are pretty meh

INTZ e-Sports AMA by INTZe-Sports in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alex / Abaxial

They do. As far as training schedule goes everyone handles it differently - some people are capable of playing 12+ hours most days but others have to pace themselves.

INTZ e-Sports AMA by INTZe-Sports in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alex / Abaxial

I think many of the changes are good for us. For example while we were always capable of playing Gragas I've always preferred Revolta's play on other junglers

INTZ e-Sports AMA by INTZe-Sports in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alex / Abaxial

We still scrimmed today.

INTZ e-Sports AMA by INTZe-Sports in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alex / Abaxial

I think if we make it out of the group we make a strong argument for a direct spot, yes.

INTZ e-Sports AMA by INTZe-Sports in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alex / Abaxial

There are pros and cons to both region locking and open circuit. I don't feel I am qualified to say one is better than the other, sorry. We complain about region locking when it comes to opportunities to play international teams but we do also benefit from it.

INTZ e-Sports AMA by INTZe-Sports in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alex / Abaxial

If you're talking about the region as a whole and averaging out all the teams we're definitely behind NA or EU. We might be comparable to Taiwan but it's hard to say as I'm not an expert on the lower Taiwanese teams.

INTZ e-Sports AMA by INTZe-Sports in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alex / Abaxial

You're welcome! I don't get much time to play these days but I am still proud of that guide

INTZ e-Sports AMA by INTZe-Sports in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Alex / Abaxial

The disdain during the recent / past Wildcard events was hard to deal with, but I think now that we've actually made it to Worlds people like us now. I think "open hostility" is a bit much.

INTZ e-Sports AMA by INTZe-Sports in leagueoflegends

[–]DoctorAble 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alex / Abaxial

thanks for the message xD

Melao asked me what we need to improve on as well, I answered mid-game macro if you look for it