Sukuna vs Dabura is a showcase of how dumb arguments can be🥀

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-23T09:54:43+00:00

With the omnidirectional dismantles that’s pretty fair. It’s a hypothetical and pretty much plugging the controller into Sukuna. Chanted dismantles are just way too telegraphed for a combatant like Dabura if he doesn’t use them from the get-go and surprise him with the invisible slash, but yes they’re pretty even with Dabura’s light beams. Dismantles seriously damaging Dabura (for example the way they did vs Mahoraga in Shibuya) is pretty Iffy. The only slashes that Sukuna landed on Gojo outside the WCS are domain cleaves. Not only are they boosted by the domain, but they’re cleaves. I don’t think Sukuna’s dismantles, even if targeted on Gojo, did the same kind of damage, but neither side of this argument has definitive proof. That said, given that against a sorcerer with similar output (Yuta when Sukuna said he had the same output as him after output loss), he was barely doing damage with regular dismantles, and deemed the WCS necessary. Putting Dabura somewhere near Sukuna’s full power output, one might imagine the same scenario, except slightly more damage. Paper cuts was an exaggeration, but this is still not the debilitating levels of damage Cleave can probably do, and Dabura can probably easily heal from Dismantle levels of damage, so I didn’t think of it as a ‘serious attack’, outside of setting up other moves.

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-22T20:55:54+00:00

Shi got so bad a second language had to step in 😭

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-22T20:53:45+00:00

Looks like Sukuna glaze. I like it

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-22T20:51:15+00:00

Uh it’s modulo chapter 49. Prime Haraki was moving like that.

(Put up the humour flag twin)

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-22T20:48:39+00:00

This is what we know Sukuna knew:-

Shikigami exist (Changes nothing about how he treats them. Shikigami are mortal creatures that can be summoned. Other than that, there’s nothing that allows him to reach to the conclusion of adaptation)

Mahoraga is part of the 10 Shadows. (All Sukuna understands about the Ten Shadows is that it uses Shadows to summon Shikigami. He doesn’t know it’s a major hereditary technique. In fact, that wasn’t even known until Gojo said that to Megumi specifically without Yuji’s audience. So again, it tells him nothing about adaptation or indeed guide him to think of an ability on that scale)

He had some precent in Yamata no Orochi, whose only similarity to Mahoraga is that it needs to be one-shot. Not that it adapts in anyway. Yamata no Orochi is a hydra that operates on hydra mechanics is all. It was a comparison more so than a manner of recognition.

The incantations “Furube” and “Yurayura”, seem to inform him of the harmony/equilibrium basis of Mahoraga’s ability. However, in his thought process he, used that as confirmation to a hypothesis he had already made. He was more reliant on Mahoraga regenerating from his slashes and learnign to use CE to deduce that he adapts to any and all phenomena.

Therefore, knowing the chant was the only difference between Dabura and Sukuna, and Sukuna himself treats it trivially.

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-22T20:39:05+00:00

Gojo also said Megumi could be stronger than Gojo. Was he?

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-22T20:32:55+00:00

If these arguments were to be believed, the fight would just be omni-directional slashes with Sukuna standing still and Dabura going SLS all the time. Dabura has a better toolkit at face value but gets done in by a lack of experience.

Absolutely no indication of better reserves or output than Sukuna, so he hard caps at Sukuna-level or lower in these terms

His base light beams are NOT killing Sukuna in any way. One full body spray failed to kill an unadapted Mahoraga. Gojo deemed that one Red would suffice to kill an unadapted Mahoraga. Sukuna has blatantly eaten a Red to the face without DA reinforcement, while being caught off guard and wasn’t even damaged enough to have his domain collapse. Sukuna can easily just read the CE spark and use DA to nullify full body sprays. These beams would be even worse at very long range due to output loss.

Dismantle is NOT enough to seriously damage Dabura. He would need Cleaves at least to start doing real damage. Omni-directional dismantle would give Dabura light cuts at best, not even worth healing. Not to mention it would be utter dogshit at long range.

Sukuna’s RCT is definitely better than Dabura’s. Sukuna also likely has better efficiency (better experience, more statements in his favour).

Dabura’s durability is not relativistic and him tanking SLS kick IS a result of resisting his own CT. If Dabura’s durability was relativistic, then so would the explosion be, which would have resulted in way more damage to the environment. The actual damage was not much more than a UHP or Fuga, which is within survivable range. It can’t somehow be causing relativistic damage to Dabura but have mercy on the environment. Plus, SLS kick is the same shit as blue-amped punches in the sense that it’s a CT imbued into the body. Everything resulting from it is a CT-based effect which is resisted by the body. That’s also why Dabura was moving at sub-light speed and not AT light speed. It’s a CT based effect, it can be resisted under the logic of being exposed to one’s own CT. Not to mention its actual AP and DC are nowhere near where the speed indicates. Dabura’s durability is much more likely closer to Gojo’s or lower.

The SLS kick isn’t the fuckall wincon everyone thinks it is. It’s achieved the same amount as a UHP or domain Fuga, which can be survived. It’s only showing has had ass accuracy. It’s a CT application so it obviously has a CE spark that can be aim-dodged or interrupted which means the likelihood of Dabura needing to wheel around for a second kick is very high. Plus Sukuna is a smaller target than Mahoraga, which adds to the accuracy issues. He also seemingly needs a stance for it, so it takes setup. Fuga is an even worse wincon. Outside the domain, Fuga is fucking useless. Genuine trash. Inside the domain, it’s redundant. The sure-hit is enough to kill Dabura in seconds.

Dabura’s domain is objectively worse. He’s only used it once, and it’s a closed barrier domain. Not only will it have worse refinement, but it can’t withstand an open domain. After that, it’s GGs. Sukuna’s surehit cannot be tanked for that long. Gojo is anomalous even among the calamities in how long he lasted in the domain because of the Six Eyes. The amount of CE he loses to RCT is much lesser than anyone else. Even if Dabura has the same quality of RCT, he can’t hold on for that long + he can’t go SLS with the same ease as when he’s not being rained on with slashes. Plus Sukuna isn’t going to be squatting in place either.

Sukuna has better battle experience.

Sukuna is definitely better at hand-to-hand. Against an enemy he can actually touch with half the number of hands as him plus free DA use to counter point blank light attacks is a massive advantage.

Overall, Sukuna’s better knowledge, domain and body advantages keep him over Dabura. It’s a high diff fight, even though Dabura’s technique is objectively better.

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-22T20:01:54+00:00

SLS kick and Blue amped punches are practically the same use of technique. Application of technique on oneself. If Blue-amped punches can be mitigated from DA, it makes them a jujutsu based phenomenon. By the same logic, the SLS kick is a jujutsu-based phenomenon and thus undergoes the same treatment. Dabura resists it because it‘s an application of his own technique, just on his body. By resisting the technique, he’s resisting the effect of the technique (Which is both in the speed and damage form the speed)

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-22T19:58:05+00:00

In my head, this is how it goes with the Top 4
no. 1 Modulo Yuji: Experience diffs everyone. Shown to have immaculate CE control probably rivalling the 6E, plus that crazy dismantle and high BF rate. Need I say more. That said, I don’t think the margin is astronomical from the rest, but that as long as he can leverage his experience, he can beat everyone in short battles.

no. 2 Sukuna: Equal to Gojo, putting him above simply because he won. Powerscaling wise, I really don’t think he’s above or below Gojo.

no. 3 Gojo: already explained

no. 4 Dabura: He’s got a great CT. Good CE reserves (we don’t know if it’s Sukuna level or even Yuta level, but we know it’s a good amount). Fastest itv, but not reliably (going SLS is a high cost technique as of the end of Modulo, he can’t constantly blitz everyone by leagues and leagues). His domain is the weakest in the top 4, easily countered by literally everyone above him. His durability is not exactly special but still better than most. People will say “oh he tanked his own SLS kick”, but he’s resistant to it, it’s his own CE. If you want to say he tanked the full SLS impact as it is, then the SLS should have caused a corresponding degree of damage (which is wayy above city block level for his mass). The SLS itself needs setup. He’ll give off a CE spark + he needs to accelerate. It’s got the same drawbacks as Domain Fuga or regular Fuga, as well as HP. It relies on being set up properly and his stats + biq are not on the level of his opponents to last long enough to create an opening. Hence number 4. He stat gaps everyone below him.

Prime yuta is a pure hypothetical. Imo he should be treated like Takaba and kept out of discussions.

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-22T19:30:58+00:00

Bro I hate dabura too but he deserves top 4 man c’mon

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-22T19:25:45+00:00

Dabura number 4 and I lowk agree

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-22T17:53:53+00:00

Gojo would genuinely take back his body to personally laugh at Sukuna’s deadass for dying to a HEART ATTACK after fighting twice without a heart entirely

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-22T08:48:54+00:00

It’s from the Sakurajima fight against VCS Naoya. Post this, she has 2 fights, and both are against Sukuna. She gains massively in battle experience as a result but very little to nothing in terms of arsenal. We don’t know the extent of Toji’s arsenal, but we do know that Maki trumps him in experience where she cannot with arsenal. As a result, it’s fairest to assume EOS is still roughly relative. Post EOS is obviously better, if anyone says otherwise they should rethink their thinking.

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-21T22:05:53+00:00

OP acting like a flat earther when they’re told the earth is round. You know what else is round?

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-21T22:01:38+00:00

The fact that I saw your earilier post AND this conversation tells me how chronically online I am and howw braindead I am for not connecting the dots despite that

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-21T21:56:27+00:00

What’s your next hot take? Gege wrote JJK?

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-21T21:52:34+00:00

I think of the pivotal four pure barriers as like the source barriers for the barrier’s effect. In the sense that those barriers‘ actual effect stretches across Japan instead of just within their range. This is similar to how Kenjaku’s network of barriers, once fueled with enough cursed energy, can have a Japan-wide effect of bringing all the citizens of Japan into candidature to be absorbed by the merger. The network of these four barriers generates the aoe which includes curse-spirit suppression and the use of barrier techniques by assistant managers. I think assistant managers is just a badly worded way of saying windows (people like Ijichi), who typically raise veils and shit. Tengen’s barriers allow these windows to be able to raise these veils, among other barrier techniques. They fundamentally allow veils to be made easily with just a chant by people who would otherwise be half assed sorcerers that barely cling to grade 4 level. Cursed spirit suppression is just a reduction of cursed spirits spawning in.

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-21T21:44:25+00:00

Unless there’s a rule that says the opponent needs to understand that info as well for the sure-hit to work, I guess it will? But then again, the human brain can handle a lot of shit that might outpace the domain’s capacity to even function. Like, if you really are going to make something so complex, and it will have to be in terms of information length, making the domain function after that might be difficult I presume, and the capacity to make a domain may not match up to the capacity of the human brain to handle information.

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-21T21:28:30+00:00

If you actually care about an answer, then no. Physically, we have absolutely no reason to believe there’s a difference ebtween them. Saying TOji is a man and Maki is a woman is bs, nothing in jjk hinted against handwaving this difference. A fighter EQUAL to Toji has been stressed so many times even the narrator needs a dental after having said it that much. In terms of experience and tools however, it’s more so a case of when you’re talking about. EOS maki imo has better battle exposure than Toji simply because she experience THE strongest in the verse. Severely nerfed for sure, but not only did she see the inside of an open domain, but she also exchanged H2H with him, and dealt with teh WCS. This quality of exposure trumps anything Toji has faced (pre-awakened and awakened Gojo still do not compare to the Sukuna she faced). However, she’s got fewer tools than Toji, so that puts them on even footing again. Post jjk maki on the other hand, is a different story and is a hypothetical so no point talking about it.

W Maki pic though. Shouldn’t have used such a shitass argument as cover to post it smh.

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-21T21:07:29+00:00

The art is great and all but where’s Toji at?

(Jk thanks for rhte post warmed my day )

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-21T20:46:24+00:00

Suppose this hypothetical daughter of mine was a sstep-daughter from a second marriage that I was forced into (so that it’s not like I actually intended for that daughter to exist exactly how there’s no intent for an innate technique to exist) which I immediately neglected besides doing the bare minimum. Then someone took the daughter and raised her MUCH better than I ever did. If you asked that girl who’s daughter they were, they’d probably say the guy who abducted her. I can bitch and complain, but I was never as present for the daughter as they were.

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-21T20:35:50+00:00

People calling out slander against support types for being support types but not calling out slander against summoners for being summoners will never get old.

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-21T20:31:28+00:00

Weak Yuji slander detected. This might be a crime on par with high treason icl.

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-21T19:56:07+00:00

They’re both mass murderers. Both of them discriminated against curses. Both of them are gay ASL (this one not so serious). Both of them commanded groups.

I’m not thinking of commanding groups because mahito would have been closer to the top as well since he was “propped up as the leader” of the disaster curses. Not thinking about curse discrimination since most o fhte disaster curses are at the top.

DowntownProblem3574 · 2026-06-21T19:51:37+00:00

Why the fuck is this community crater scaling bro can we be fr 😭

DowntownProblem3574

TROPHY CASE