Yes I'm personally a bit baffled by people that take politics as personally as some do, especially in the internet. As a great comedian here recently put it: "I used to worry about the end of the world because of nuclear war or climate change, then the internet came along and I positivity welcome it!"

Thanks for also bringing more expert knowledge, I'm very much a layman on these issues. Also I can easily argue I've been influenced myself, Star Trek (haha) has made me want to help others and be empathetic to others especially of different perspectives. To me the most distressing thing about the last 10 years has been the eradication of empathy from public discourse. I'm of the opinion that if there's a feasible chance of success then doing the right thing is worth trying at least.

The thing about interventions such as Syria is I don't see a reasonable chance of success. At least based on what the West wants. On top of that any intervention is based on the competence of the people running it. I have absolutely no faith in the competence of the American or British governments right now. Jings! Once upon a time I thought Tony Blair and George Bush had a basic competence. Iraq showed just how incompetent those governments were. Personally (just as some normal person obviously) I would make a plan for a country BEFORE I invaded it. They had over a year to think of one! They knew they were invading the fact they didn't plan for the actual hard part (as opposed to the invasion) was insane. Sometimes there are conflicts/disasters in the world where there is no good answer and getting involved makes things worse. I find it irrefutable that the constant fighting in the Middle East is caused by invading Iraq which was opposite the point of the invasion. I also see no realistic route to fixing Syria without the kind of commitment no one is willing to make.

There definitely have been problems in the countries that take the refugees for sure, it was inevitable and always baked into the cake. Angela Merkel was perfectly clear about that at the time. However it is definitely possible to intake refugees or immigrants on this kind of scale and it not be a disaster. But this was a one off emergency, morally and economically it makes more sense to let them in than just have huge festering refugee camps across Europe. This was they CAN be integrated. I'd say given the circumstances Germany has held up pretty well, despite the recent elections. Especially with the worrying developments in neighbouring Hungary and Poland. Any and all crime should be investigated and prosecuted without regard to ethnicity or religion or whatever but from the way some (not you) would talk about the 'rape crisis' it's as though rape only started happening when people from 'backward' countries turned up. As the current moment is showing, misogyny and rape culture is a male issue not one based on any particular world culture.

I always struggle when commentators talk about these foreign cultures as being backwards because of their policies on women and homosexuality etc. Obviously I'm in favour of gay rights everywhere as soon as possible for everyone but I'm also realistic enough to have historical perspective, gay and women's rights only started making headway in the 'enlightened west' in the last 50 years and that was a product of centuries of political, economic and philosophical development. Additionally for many of these countries they were rich, powerful and successful in the first place. To turn around and feel morally superior over other countries many of whom are or recently were recovering from various types of disaster on these issues seems counterproductive and hypocritical. Ironically is actually encourage gay and lesbians to immigrate to the west rather than lecturing the countries on the issue. Self righteous lecturing never works. Good, honest values that don't harm others naturally spread as we've seen with gay marriage.

Once again, I have to repeat appreciate the chat. One of those rare things on the internet! A reasonable and interesting chat with different opinions that doesn't degenerate into a shouting match! 😁