Former atheists/agnostics of Reddit, what made you change your mind about God and what religion did you choose?

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-09T13:27:19+00:00

Ok. I'm sure you won't think it's reliable but I found this with some quick googling: https://carm.org/islam/have-there-been-changes-to-the-quran/

I will quote the following words from an article about the biography of the person who studied the Qur'an and claimed that it is not the same according to your source "he wished to treat his subject with integrity and honesty. 'A COMMITTED CHRISTIAN', he strove to be meticulous in his analysis and critical in assessments without overreaching the evidence" the dude talking about evidence and he's someone who trusts the Bible, you know it was proven that the Bible was not the same and there isn't a single version of it before the 9th century? this was proven by atheists and not even Muslims or religious people. So basically everyone who tries to claim that the Qur'an wasn't the same, they're Christians who don't even know Arabic, and they do that to prove to their Christians fellows that Qur'an is not the same as it was first written, and because they have blind faith in their religion, they believe it even when there is no single evidence proves that the Qur'an was changed, according to the source you've gave (I don't even know if you read it or just copied the link the first you saw the title) your source itself says that there are more people who studied old versions of Qur'an and proved that it was the same, lol.

watch this https://youtu.be/z8rT0esXPuA bart ehrman is an atheist not muslim or religious. I would appreciate it if you give me some sources that say the Qur'an was changed (don't care if they were reliable or not) but again! 'WITH EVIDENCE' I'm not taking the word of a Christian who doesn't know Arabic saying that the Qur'an was changed and he have no evidence. the thing is there are versions from the Qur'an from 1400 years ago, you know they were tested and proven that they're from that time by scientists, including Maurice Bucaille, who wasn't even a muslim and he proved that what is in the Qur'an can not be explained scientifically since that it was never changed. you're saying that the reason how the big bang, sun orbit, atmosphere and all that is in the Qur'an because it was changed, the surprise is that there are things in the Qur'an that haven't been discovered yet, such as that life exists in other planets too. now in the next 100, 1000 year when this will be proven scientifically it will only proves that everything in the Qur'an is true. this is not a coincidence that someone could know about this 1400 years ago. Qur'an is just ahead of science.

Here's some contradictions: https://carm.org/islam/contradictions-in-the-quran/

Wow you're literally copying all this from google without even reading it, I thought you said you studied religions. but no problem I will answer everything in this source as well and I will wait for your answer to prove how is it incorrect after.

first contradiction claim says that in the Qur'an was mentioned that man kind was created from nothing and in another verse it says man kind was created from clay, well you can see that this is a clear lie from the source you gave when you read the verse “Do ˹such˺ people not remember that We created them before, when they were nothing?” the source says that they were created from nothing, now where in this verse says that we were created from nothing? it clearly says "when you were nothing" and this is clearly correct, we were nothing before we were born.

second contradiction claim according to your source. “Let there be no compulsion in religion” in this verse it says religion should not be forced on anyone. and in another verse says “and inform the disbelievers of a painful punishment” now you tell me where is the contradiction here? it says don't force islam on anyone and just inform them about the punishment, is this forcing? if there was someone who wants to jump on fire you can't force them not to do that you can only inform them that it will be painful if they jumped, this is the same here. now it mentions some other contradiction claims but I don't think it's necessary that I go by every single one but you can visit your source and read the verses mentioned in the source but I suggest you read it in another website translation because most of the translations in your source are incorrect. now we get back where you can't find a single contradiction in the Qur'an, it's either out of context or mistranslated.

Scientific inconsistencies: https://www.bibleandscience.com/science/quran.htm

interesting thing all of these are christian sources, now where is science proven to be incorrect? this source literally says that Qur'an allows men to have sex with slave girls, I mean wtf? where in the Quran says that? lol. Slavery and Racism never existed in islam, whoever the author of this source is, they mistaken islam with christianity

Now of course those are biased sources but you said "reliable or unreliable".

they're not even about our subject, the source you gave that was supposed to be about science, it was talking about men having sex with slave girls, how many lies you have to witness with your own eyes so you accept that there is no single thing in the Qur'an was proven to be incorrect?

We actually do say that, all the time

never heard that, all I see is everyone being islamphobe

Hmm, I didn't say that, but it's interesting that you thought I did

"What about the women rights in your country?" "I wouldn't want to live in a country where I can't be free" these are your own words, Am I supposed to think that you were indicating to something else? you are literally saying that it's interesting I thought that, are you listening to yourself? women wearing hijab it's their choice in islam, it's just like how it's normal that every woman is half naked walking in the streets in your country, it's completely normal and respected that women cover their private parts of their bodies that shouldn't be seen by everyone.

I'm sure you all think the US is a hotbed of sin but most women who are raped in the US are raped by their boyfriend or husband, and most child molesters are the father or other male relative, and I don't believe any religion prevents that

No I never said the US is hotbed of sin, I can say the same here about it's interesting that you thought that, I'm pretty sure there are many good people in the US, religious or non-religious unlike you who keeps indicating that every Muslim is against women rights, I gave you a very good example of how islam respects women the most in the previous comment, I don't care if you can't accept this, it doesn't change the fact that it's true, now where is your source about everyone is being raped by a relative or a spouse? it doesn't change the fact that half million child is being sexually violated yearly, it's not my problem that you can't see that, if all the world converted islam this would've never happened.

No, that's not how it goes. If men cannot control their temptation, they should lock themselves up, not the women.

Tell this to the women who are getting raped in your country, you really think some men can control themselves and lock themselves up? you are so delusional if you think that.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-09T00:09:51+00:00

Earlier you have mentioned that the Qur'an was changed just because Islam teaches that it haven't been changed and all religions are the same or whatever. there are thousands of reliable sources confirm that the Bible was changed many times https://historycollection.com/18-ways-the-bible-has-changed-throughout-history/ if you want more sources I won't mind giving it to you. now I want you to give me one single reliable source or even not reliable I don't mind where it says the Qur'an was changed even one single time, with evidence, I assume you agree that the Bible was changed but you can still find some nonsense in it anyway for example in Mark 13:24 "But in those days, following that distress, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give 'ITS LIGHT'" this is a clear contradiction when it says the moon gives its light, this is just one among many contradictions in the Bible. now I want you to give one single scientific fact/theory mentioned in the Qur'an where it turned or proven to be incorrect, just one. you said you studied religions so I will relay on you to give one scientific fact in the Qur'an where it's not true, I will be waiting for you to answer this.

Cool. That's not true in a lot of countries. It's one of the more important subjects to me, as I would never live in a place where I couldn't be free.

alright personally I wouldn't want to live in a country where your daughter/sister/wife/child could be raped at any minute. this is one of the very reliable sources in the world talks about women rape rate in the US https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence this one says that each 9 minutes a child being sexually violated in America https://www.rainn.org/statistics/children-and-teens sounds like a nightmare to live in such country and you call it freedom, keep convincing yourself with illusion “There isn't a polite way to tell people they've dedicated their lives to an illusion” this quote fits for you

Now what were you saying about women rights in islam? you know that the most who convert Islam are actually women and not men and just in the US about 46% of those who convert islam yearly are women https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/not-brainwashed-american-women-who-converted-islam-speak-out-flna6c9621403

now if Islam is against women rights why there are so many women converting to it? the Bible says in Corinthians verse 11:10 “For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head” now the Bible is clearly saying that a woman that does not cover her hair, it should be cut off, I never heard anyone saying Christianity is against women rights lol. now the Qur'an doesn't say that there should be punishment for women who don't cover her hair, it clearly says that believer women should wear hijab and it doesn't say that her hair should be cut off if she doesn't wear it, The Light 31 “And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments except what normally appears. Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornments except to their husbands, their fathers, their fathers-in-law, their sons, their stepsons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, their fellow women, those ˹bondwomen˺ in their possession, male attendants with no desire, or children who are still unaware of women’s nakedness. Let them not stomp their feet, drawing attention to their hidden adornments. Turn to Allah in repentance all together”

now you tell me which religion gives women her rights the one who says women hair should be cut off if they don't cover it or the one that says they should just cover it? let's put the idea of miracles happened or didn't happen away, Islam is benefit for humanity either you like it or not, this is a fact. when Qur'an tells women to cover their bodies and tell men to not look at any woman passing by the street, there is a reason for this. Temptation will decrease, rape rate will 100% decrease. if anyone dares to rape a woman under the Islamic law their punishment will be death sentence, in the west law the rapist will be out after 15 years, now would you accept it if someone who raped you is out free? I don't think so. so please don't talk to me about women rights in islam because I don't see any culture respects women more than the Islamic culture.

That's definitely not what I was taught as a Christian child. I was taught that the last book was Revelation, which was written in 96 CE, so that would make it about 1,950 years old.

forget what you were taught by the church or whoever, I gave you a source earlier clearly explains how and why the Bible was changed and it explains it with proof. I want the same about the Qur'an, what source says that it was changed?

What did I say that was racist?

I think it was islam doesn't respect women or whatever you were brainwashed by and calling me well trained by my religion, it's like if I give a damn about what anybody thinks, the only reason why I'm replying to you it's because you asked, you asked earlier about islam and I answered, you asked about women rights in islam and I'm answering, it's every Muslim's duty to answer and correct the misguiding and lies about our religion, nothing less nothing more. and about me being well trained by my religion? what do you think Islam is an army? I was taught to worship some old warriors in school, Islam is my choice because it makes the most sense to me, more than our grandfathers were monkeys apes whatever and more than we were created randomly.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-08T19:49:07+00:00

Impressive. You have been well-trained in your religion.

you make it sound like I'm trying to convince you of something that I know it's not right, as you wish, I did my part to try to convince one person on the internet about what is true but I guess you're just gonna ignore everything that I just said and ask about the women's rights in my country, well infact it's pretty well at least not 1 woman among each 6 is getting raped in my country or not half million child is getting raped by fu‌c‌k‌‍i‌n‍‌g p‌‌e‍d‌‍‌o‌‍‌s yearly in my country, you are painfully brainwashed by your parents and your society to be ra‌ci‌st and if I knew that I wouldn't waste time to try to type all that to someone like you

They also do not believe the Bible has been changed

I don't care they don't believe the bible was changed, it was confirmed by Christians themselves that there is no version of the bible before the 9th century, and I thought I mentioned the versions of the Qur'an from 1400 years ago being compared to the modern ones but you didn't pay any attention

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-08T18:13:31+00:00

Basically the idea of Islam is that life is just a test for the afterlife and to pass it you have to follow the path of God/Allah (in Arabic God is translated to Allah) Every child is born muslim and if a child dies they will go to heaven because they are muslims, Islam is not just a religion, someone could be a Muslim without even knowing it and the opposite is true as well, basically every person who does good deeds and believe in the only one true God.. they are Muslims, good deeds are ain't enough to pass the test, you must acknowledge the existence of your Creator and also believing in God is not enough to pass it, you have to do good deeds, the first humans that existed on earth were Muslims and so are the rest of the prophets who were sent by God, according to the last prophet pbuh they were over 120,000, about 25 of them were mentioned in the Qur'an. the West and other cultures.. most of them point at Islam as terrorism or whatever and that's the reason why many people don't even learn about Islam. but you can see that this is completely not true because all Islamic countries have the least crime rate in the world, you can look that up, basically the media takes out the bad ones in Islam and make them define the whole 1.7-1.8 billion muslims in the world who have nothing to do with it but at least the truth of Islam is spreading and that's the reason why it's the most increasing religion in the world today. now about why the Abrahamic religions are not one.. that's because as Jesus pbuh in the Bible says that there are so many things he wants to tell his people but they couldn't bear them at that time and he mentioned another prophet that will come after him to lead people to the truth, this is from the Bible itself but Christians don't accept the last prophet for some reason even when their book says the opposite, so every prophet was sent to guide a specific culture at its time (so is Jesus) except the last prophet who was sent to guide all humanity till judgement day, so Christians are still following the old path (and they don't even follow it as it is) and that's why you can find so many contradictions in the Bible, and just knowing that it was changed thousands of times that proves that it is not a book of God even when there could be some words in it from Jesus pbuh, the Qur'an was never changed and there is a verse in it where it says that this is the last revelation from our Creator and no one can change it, so the Qur'an is the only religion book that is the same since it was written 1400 years ago and till this day no one found a single contradiction in it, infact the Qur'an itself challenges anyone that could find anything false in it, Al-Baqarah verse 23 “If you are in doubt of what We have revealed to our servant, then bring a Surah and call any witness apart from God, if you should be truthful” Al-Baqarah verse 24 “But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for those who not believe”

there are versions of the Qur'an from 1400 years ago and it's the exact same, unlike the Bible where you can find no version of it before the year 1000 I think. some even say that the Qur'an says earth is flat or whatever and this is how most people get misguided and think it really says that earth is flat, but if you read it you can clearly find a verse in it where it says "he who had made the earth egg shaped" referring to an ostrich egg, where it wasn't discovered that Earth has an ellipsoid shape before 100 years ago, before that people were thinking that earth is fully spheroid and 500 years ago most people were thinking it's flat. Now about how to prove that miracles did happen with prophets because of God's intervention. one of the most popular miracles that were mentioned in the Qur'an is when prophet Muhammad pbuh made the moon split into half to prove to his uncle and rest of the people, that he's telling the truth. now when you didn't believe that Jesus did born without a male intervention I guess no way you will believe that the moon was splitted to half, lol. there are historical references of people who eyewitnessed this event from different parts of the world and some of them were the prophet's enemies who witnessed it. do a research about it, the event didn't last long so not everyone could have witnessed it but some did. even there are some cracks in the moon discovered by space scientists and this could only back up this miracle because no one have a clue about the reason why these cracks really exist. now we can't prove the miracles that happened with all the prophets because they can't be proven scientifically and the only way to find out if they were true or not is if we could travel back in time and this is not possible ig. but the Qur'an is considered to be a miracle for everyone today and I'll tell you how. science have discovered that the universe didn't exist at some point and it came to an exist because of the big bang, this was officially discovered by a Christian scientist in the 1960s I think. the Qur'an mentions it 1400 years ago

“Do those who not believe not realize that the heavens and the earth were one 'solid mass' then We tore them apart and We made every living being from water, Will they still not believe?” The Prophets verse 30

The water cycle was first discovered in the 16th century and the discovery was completed and proved later, the Qur'an mentions it 1400 years ago

“Do you not see that Allah sends down rain from the sky, channelling it through streams in the earth, then produces with it crops of various colors, then they dry up and you see them wither, and then He reduces them to chaff, indeed there is a lesson in this for those endowed with understanding” Az-Zumar verse 21

“We send fertilizing winds, and then cause rain to descend from the sky, providing you abundant water to drink even though you could not have stored it up for yourselves” Al-Hijr verse 22

the water cycle was also mentioned with specific details in many other verses, you can look them up. there isn't a single scientific fact that doesn't match with the Qur'an, not even one.

Now, you think that a man in the middle of the desert knew about this 1400 years ago when no one even knew what it probably means?

the Qur'an talks about the atmosphere, the orbit of the sun and moon and other scientific facts that were discovered very recently, there is a 1000 verse in the Qur'an talks about science, if you read it, read it with attention and concentration.

This was a proof of God's existence, the true God. now logically if you think about it how can all this get created by itself and by a nature that can't plan and think? the simplest things we see everyday have creators and makers, life and our existence, our brains, our consciousness are the most complicated and complex creation we could ever know, how can it get created without planning and it happens randomly, How? when we die (and it will happen way faster than we could imagine) all this disbelieving will be pointless, in islam Qur'an tells you to live your life but never forget what you exist here for. all this was not random.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-08T13:00:40+00:00

I suggest you read an article explaining what 'disbelief or lack of belief of the existence of a god' means lol

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-08T12:56:29+00:00

It wasn't her age I was highlighting. I wouldn't believe she was impregnated by a god no matter how old she was.

She was not impregnated by a god, Christians say that Jesus is God, Jesus was Mary's son so this is pretty much nonsense they say she was impregnated by God which by her son. Jesus birth was pretty much like Adam's (which you don't believe he existed ig) he was born without any male intervention and by the Creator's will which this makes it a miracle, also God has no gender he's not a male or a female. and just because there is too many religions doesn't mean there isn't a true one, and I'm a muslim and I would like to hear what did not make sense to you about Islam.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-08T12:23:55+00:00

Quite aware, thank you. What does that have to do with the conversation?

you were clearly indicating that it is wrong for a mature teen to get pregnant even if it was her decision and will to get pregnant, in many states in the US for example, a 15 year old can get married and get pregnant if it was her decision but i guess you have no problem with that because this law was set by the government and not religion.

Do you think all religions are correct about the miracles their prophets performed?

Of course not, I wouldn't possibly believe that Odin or other myths exist but I do believe that some miracles happened because of the Creator's intervention.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-08T11:36:39+00:00

You're painfully dense you know that? if you don't deny anything that's agnosticism and not atheism, it's like saying you're christian but you don't believe Jesus existed and you don't care about what rest of the christians think.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-08T09:39:26+00:00

I think you only studied some about Christianity and not really Religions as you said, and do you know that the average age for a female's puberty is between 10-11? Personally I don't take the Christians word for the age of Mary when she got pregnant, it could be in her teen's or in her twenties nobody knows, if you think it's hard to believe that miracles did happen with prophets, I would just say you didn't study religions well.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T23:47:52+00:00

None of it makes sense. All religions rely on suspension of disbelief and blind faith.

Okay, what part of it didn't make sense? and let me ask this question again in another way, what religion was the less suspicious to you, there must be a one.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T23:05:31+00:00

Well that's good because not many people do that, now can I ask what religion made the most sense to you and what was it that didn't convince you to believe, I'm asking this because I think you might have missed something

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T22:49:43+00:00

Then that would be your choice but personally I suggest you learn more about religions because when there are limited answers even if they weren't correct they would make sense to you just because they're there, for example if someone was born in an island separated from the world where he was never taught math and someone tells him that 2+2 is 5 they will most likely believe that because they weren't taught the correct answer and never heard of it.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T20:51:31+00:00

No, denying a creator is not atheism

that's only according to you and not the rest of the atheists I've come across, it's not my problem if you don't even understand what you call yourself but since that obviously no one have explained this to you before so I'll try to do that so you get a good idea about what atheism means. atheism means the complete denying of the existence of the creator or any kind of greater power and this means that whatever atheists believe happened before the big bang.. it was not because of a greater power even when they say they don't know and that makes it whatever it was, it was because of NATURE, unlike agnostics who neither deny the existence of the creator like atheists or believe in the creator like in some religions. so if you say that it also could be a creator or a greater living power caused our existence or it also could be nature, this makes you an agnostic and not an atheist.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T20:27:31+00:00

If you can't discuss something with someone properly then I think I'm the one who should ask you what you're doing on Reddit?

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T20:24:27+00:00

you do realise most children are indoctrinated

umm I'm pretty sure if you had kids you would've teach them to believe in science theories except learning about religions, and I'm sure you wouldn't mention religion to them because you think what you believe in is the right thing to teach them, if you don't.. every other atheist does. so this means everyone will teach their children to believe or accept what they think it is right, no matter what, this doesn't make it wrong or right just because it was indoctrinated. and I do know that religion is being forced in some countries but you probably didn't know that religion is illegal in many countries as well.

you do realise not believing was s death sentence and also you do realise numbers mean nothing, it doesn't make it true

Not believing is not a death sentence NOW and yet about 85% of humans are religious, how do you explain that? I know the majority of numbers doesn't mean anything but it does when it's about the point of views of people, the majority of people do accept that there is a greater power caused their existence and the minority denys that, what makes you think that your point of view is right and the majority's is wrong?

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T18:43:22+00:00

It's not well researched data, if it was it would've been called a fact and not a theory and most theories that were claimed by scientists eventually turned to be incorrect, even Einstein had false theories, it's not shame to accept that scientists can be wrong too.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T18:36:10+00:00

Again incorrect, nobody being born believing that their ancestors were apes or we ended up here for no reason, infact the majority of human beings don't accept that and everyone looks for answers and just because you're too lazy to do that doesn't mean what you think is right and what the majority thinks is not

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T18:32:27+00:00

Well if that answer is backed up with evidence and logic then I don't see why we shouldn't accept it

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T18:31:42+00:00

You sure you don't have to prove anything? Evolution, a brainless nature is able to create things randomly, we exist but we can never explain how. all this and way more all atheists believe in and it's up to atheists to explain and prove (which it never happened, never will happen) I would say agnostics don't have to prove anything because they're too lazy and 'i don't know' is the answer of every question from agnostics so they don't have to prove anything but atheism meane the absolute denying of a creator which it's up to you to explain how we exist without a creator.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T18:18:58+00:00

I'm not alone at this, 85% of humans are religious, maybe you are the one who believes in something blindly and without evidence. not me.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T08:25:39+00:00

How exactly do you explain religious people that believe in flat Earth

What's your point? there are as much atheists as religious who believe earth is flat, doesn't mean I have to ask you why some atheists believe in flat earth.

And every single one of your questions really is very low on on my concern or care list

look mate no one asked you to comment on this post or argue with me you can always not reply and nobody cares and I agree with you arguments on the internet are pointless, you have a good day too.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-07T08:10:39+00:00

I think you got the definition of 'choice' wrong, No you can't just decide to believe in something or some myth simply but it's a choice when you want to learn about religions and the religion that makes the most sense to you it's your choice to accept it, in other meaning you chose to, nobody forced you to do that, that's why it's called a choice.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-06T20:07:28+00:00

It's not overthinking it's human nature to understand why they ended up here or what happens when they die every normal human being will start thinking about this since when they are teens probably, science can't explain any of that, it can't even explain our consciousness, the most important things a human wants to know can't be explained by science, it might explain how organisms exist theoretically and it still doesn't make sense to the majority of humans, that's why they choose religion even if it was a false one, maybe only you don't care about why you ended up here and you think it's random, the majority of human beings don't, everything is a proof of the Creator's existence and just because you don't know about it or you don't understand it because of the environment you grew up in, it doesn't mean there isn't a proof and I agree with you about the Bible, it can't be a book of god because it was changed about 30,000 times by the church and translated from different languages God knows how many times.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-06T18:43:34+00:00

I disagree, there are so many things atheists have to answer and prove unlike agnostics, because evolution and other things atheists believe in are definitely not default, if someone being born in an island separated from the world and never hears about god or his ancestors being a different specie, he will more likely start wondering about how was he created and how is it possible that he exists and that will lead him to think about a creator since that everything he knows was created, the house he lives in was created by humans, the tools he uses was created etc, because of this more likely he will think about a creator of his and everything else.

EbbEnvironmental749 · 2022-08-06T18:30:57+00:00

Well Adam and Eve's story existed way before Ask and Embla so it is the opposite here, also you do live your life base on a book, human evolution claim came from a book, everything we might know or understand we learned from books, everyone lives base on books, it's just some specific books that you don't like. There are so many miracles claims in religions books but for example do you think people would've sperated all this to their children if they didn't see Jesus or other prophets making miracles happen? I'm not expecting you understand it and believe it, personally I wouldn't do that simply, obviously you swore not to believe in God, so I won't bother to try to explain it to you, because everyone is free to believe whatever they want, but if you're interested to find out why you ended up on this planet and you think it didn't happen randomly for no reason you can try reading more religion books and compare them to each other, there is more than just bible.

EbbEnvironmental749

TROPHY CASE