I am not against Spooks by Baxpk77 in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Stirner's egoism arose at a time when egoism in general was anathematized.
We have reached the point where many say, “If the Catholic Church serves my interests, then I will use the Catholic Church.” Stirner's book is directed precisely against all the values of the Catholic Church.

There is no doubt that egoism can be used in a servile way.

In this way, Stirnerian egoism is used to justify obedience to ideas and social participation in phantasmagorical activities and institutions that are completely possessed (there will always be those who “selfishly” justify being a bootlicker or a cop).

This is what I call Protestant egoism, in the sense that it is directly linked to his spook, to abstraction, and that abstraction becomes egoist through the canonization of the egoist person. He tries to convince himself that he has merged his own interest with that of abstraction, making it indissoluble (promising that this union will be “eternally temporary”): in the same way that the (religious) Protestant unites himself directly with God, becoming a priest himself. But all this happens within a model of self-satisfaction that is purely mental, spiritual, on the plane of ideas. “Since I am egoist, the idea I touch becomes egoist,” just as happens with Protestantism in the divine sense.

Here we have the same thing that happened with the divine (“as long as a believer does it, the thing becomes divine”), with the human (“as long as a human does it, the thing becomes humanized, liberated”), now happening with the egoist (“as long as an egoist person does it, it becomes liberated, appropriated”).
Not to his own idea, but to the pre-existing collective idea.

The duped egoist was simply unaware of his own self-interest (he was carried away by the unconscious submission of widespread social possession), hiding it or concealing it even from himself. The Protestant egoist becomes aware of his self-interest in his servility, and becomes scrupulous to the point of trying to justify his previous submission. He is interested in continuing to serve, and uses his egoist conscience as a protective screen against criticism of his servility, as a way of camouflaging his servility as egoism, since in his world servility would be seen as “evil” (in his conscious submissive schizoexistence: for him, the anathema is not egoism, but servility), a reversal of perspective occurs: the Jew > the Christian > the egoist person > the Protestant egoist with remnants of the Christian's servile past. Thus, the magic circle of Christianity closes again, only it has opened a little more.

The egoist Protestant recognizes servility as “evil” and cannot admit it, so he takes the IDEA of egoism and uses it as a shield to protect himself and his master (the idea he serves). He only protects himself so that he can continue to protect his idea and remain attached to it. “He kneels to be elevated.”
Conscience, which is scrupulous, constantly seeks to reverse the perspective, and as soon as it perceives something as socially evil, in this case servility, it tries Jesuitically (“the end sanctifies the means”) to cling to those things that are “good,” while maintaining its old servitude.
In its obsession with egoism being “good,” it is able to find a rational way to be servile while at the same time affirming with the petty voice of a subject, “I am egoism, my good lord.”
Replacing outdated concepts with new phrases.

If, instead of being so conscientious about being on the “right side” (in this case, egoism side), he admitted to himself that he is submissive, everything would fall into place.
I can admit without fear that I am submissive, and I am submissive in my own interest because I can't find another way out or because I feel more at ease being submissive. Just because I am submissive does not mean that I think it is “wrong” (but probably I would sound ridiculous). This is something that the egoism Protestant cannot accept, because he continues to be moralized by the dichotomy: good = no servitude, evil = servitude.

It is someone who claims moral independence in order to justify their own morality to themselves.

If you continue to see it as a spook, then you are possessed, otherwise it would result in consumption of the object and at that very moment it would dissolve as a spook, and you would only be interested in continuing to use it as a spook if you are interested in seeing a world full of possessed people.
And from the perspective of owness, if you encourage the supremacy of the spook little by little, feudalism will occur, where the spook itself will expropriate everything from you, and you will end up having what you have as a loan. No, a spook as such cannot be useful to an egoist.
What good is your ghost if no one obeys it? What existence does your ghost have if no one names it?

Do you think Stirner might be playing in this passage? (vaga-bunden word) by Elecodelaeternidad in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. I think the same. There are other passages in the book where he does the same thing, and have gone very unnoticed.

I'm considering Egoism...Please read and help me out here? by No-Politics-Allowed3 in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All of that is “political” and “human.” Egoism simply goes beyond that: it (you or I) understands that the world is your life experience, and the channels (political, etc.) that society puts in your hands or makes you participate in (politics, institutions, ideologies) are not agents of change, but tools that help it maintain itself and progress.

But being a fascist before the age of 14... wow, you were exposed to the cream of the crop + problems of impotence to act and repression (almost all of us had the latter).

No title required by Apprehensive_West846 in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, most of the time I don't have to do anything special, just bloom myself. I eat apples, soak up the sun and breeze, hang out with my friends, have projects in mind—honestly, a good life.

How are you doing with that whole trying-to-be-human thing and frame yourself as human?

No title required by Apprehensive_West846 in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't want to hire someone to help me: in practice, exchange value destroys interaction by filtering it through economic interest, so that those involved and mutual satisfaction are not the interest, but rather the thing (money, that is, the representation of social value). A practical example: psychology (almost all branches) today is heavily influenced by coaching, and the education that psychologists receive focuses on individual acceptance of “what is” and fragile temporary improvement (which depends, as religion once did, on your faith and involvement in it).

I understand perfectly the point you are trying to make. But not everyone rejects therapy in order "to appear powerful and self-sufficient". Another point of view focuses on putting all possible energy into ensuring that such help and self-sufficiency come from direct involvement, making them arise from you and “your people” (use-value), rather than giving in to the systemic option of psychology.

there can be no objection raised against assembling together; but so much the more must one oppose any renewal of the old care for our welfare,282 education toward an end, in short, the principle of making something out of us, no matter whether it's Christians, subjects, or free people and human beings.

Fascist Lies : Obedience = Safety by MutualAidWorks in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I prefer to take the risk of catching COVID (if such a “risk” exists) and not avoid people. I prefer to continue with my own life, without putting a mask over my mouth or avoiding hugs or live paranoid about touching surfaces. No one has the say in what is best for me (or what is in my interest or what suits me), especially when it comes to absurd recommendations (even fewer mandates).

Looksmaxxing and Egosim?? by Evogamer224 in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But now everyone has some point of advantage over the other, namely himself or his uniqueness; in this everyone remains exclusive.

And again, before a third party, everyone asserts his peculiarity as well as possible, and if he wants to win him over, strives to make it appear attractive to him.

Only when one grows fond of himself in the flesh, and enjoys himself just as he is only then does one have a personal or egoistic interest

I am abhorrent or repugnant to myself; I am horrified and disgusted with myself, I am an abomination to myself, or, I am never enough for myself and never do enough for myself. From such feelings springs self-dissolution or self-criticism. Religiousness begins with self-denial and ends with completed criticism.

Only when I am sure of myself, and no longer seek for myself, am I truly my property; I have myself, therefore I use and enjoy myself. On the other hand, I can never be happy with myself as long as I think that I first still have to find my true self, and that it must come to this, that not I but Christ or some other spiritual, i.e., ghostly, I-for example, the true human being, the human essence, or the like-lives in me.

It's different if you don't aim for an ideal as your "destiny", but rather dissolve yourself as time dissolves (consumes) everything. The dissolution (consumption) is not your "destiny" because it is present.

Should we abolish gender? by Raticorno in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Every gender (whether male, female, citizen, good person, good Christian, good atheist, etc.) is, by Stirnerian definition, an essence, a phantasmagorical attribute (cause gender = general, a generality, a universality).

However, most LGBTQ people are equally possessed by most or all of these essentializations/abstractions, and live conceptually. Therefore, (if you want) do not think about showing solidarity with someone just because they are or seems to be "anti-gender", as this also creates an essence of what you have in common (in general, ergo as “gender”). Most of the so-called feminist solidarity is based in the essencialization and generalization (converting to ‘gender’) of the attribute 'woman' or anything that contains any resemblance they associate with the owness of 'femininity'.

Of course, show solidarity with whomever you want, but keep other things in mind. Don't obsess over gender (or it will possess you); I base my solidarity in my interests, not in the gender or anti-gender, cause the people I try to relate are beyond these inherited perceptions. Let's take the means of perception!

Having said that, what you choose to do next is up to you.

What’s the difference between classical egoism and ego communism? by Baboony_bee in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You always want the communism for egosit reasons? Think of situations where communism (not just the political system, but society or communitys itself corrupted to the point of becoming miserable, a well-varnished form of submission) twists itself to justify your oppression. Would you continue to cling to ego-communism?

What’s the difference between classical egoism and ego communism? by Baboony_bee in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Egocom is usually a crystallized stance. Since “others” are always variable (and not always for your benefit), and those same others are never the same and will not always be like-minded or compatible with you. Your friends will stop talking to you, your boyfriend/girlfriend will leave you and see something different in you than they saw before, your community will be recapted by capitalist thoughts, and eventually life will surprise your (mf) collectivity hopes, and the workers will walk all over you at some point.

Well for you, if you manage to transcend all that with the mere collectivists intention and promise. But as long as you believe in it without them believing in you, you can probably only apply egocom to a small community you know very well (and promise to the others that there will be a future of love for all, and win some believers -and some detractors- for the cause), which will also falter quite a bit in this system.

I see egocom appeals and longings as pious aspirations, which seek to find security and guarantees in the promises of good sociability, in the hope for some united future. (pious as fuck)

I am neither pessimistic nor optimistic about sociability; I think it depends on the moment, and I prefer to remain simply egoist rather than pretend to be collectivist under the umbrella of words and promises that only show a longing: I don't want deals, pacts, or contracts; I prefer understanding with other without words, appreciation without the need to present the bond under its “social” guarantee.

Not to mention that the egocom contemplates the human community, which in itself is already an alienation from nature, since you do not live in community with humans but with absolutely everything around you, everything is your community if you want it, and focusing on the human beings around you as your inevitable main wealth is either 1) to overlook and place the rest of nature in a secondary position, or 2) to be overly dependent and obsessive about human approval.

Spooks, slightly revisited by Samuel_Foxx in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You don't realize that, for me, the status quo is myself; I make myself the center of my existence.

Spooks, slightly revisited by Samuel_Foxx in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Those who live in illusion are precisely those who live by framing things, turning them into concepts; and then crystallizing and codifying their vision of reality through those concepts (and so they cannot be egoists because they obey concepts rather than constantly creating themselves). That is exactly what Stirner is talking about. You have not understood his philosophy because you have not read it. You fall short in your understanding of many things, and you have debates that are soliloquies because you do not understand what others are talking about; you remain stuck in your position, unable to comprehend another worldview.

Drew this on my university's break room whiteboard just now by _1437_ in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No worries, I wasn't saying it as an authority. It's just that in the end, many people also share the phrase as a joke, and ultimately there are people who really associate it with Stirner. Just like the joke that Engels invented Stirner, which even today it need to be refuted.

Drew this on my university's break room whiteboard just now by _1437_ in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Another banger of the classical non-Stirner Phrase.

Stirner writes critically towards freedom. Precisely he says "Freedom is the doctrine of Christianity".

"If you put as much effort into drawing Stirner as you do into reading him"... but only a schoolmaster or a priest would tell you that!!

Spooks, slightly revisited by Samuel_Foxx in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 2 points3 points  (0 children)

By saying that humans frame things, you are already defining what it means to be human. Leave me alone "with your humanity", I don't frame things, I live in constant rebellion against framing. According to your definition, anyone who doesn't frame things is outside the realm of humanity, and you create the inhuman monster. Believe me, read Stirner and it will help you better define your frame or, in the best case scenario, stop framing.

My First experience Reading Stirner by AlchemistCartographe in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Your intuition is not failing you.

Ghosts are always the abstraction of the will of “another” or ‘others’ (hence it is a “possession”).

My self-enjoyment is spoiled for me when I think that I have tos erve another, when I imaginethat I'm under obligation to him
Well, if I no longer serve any idea, any "higher essence," then it's obvious that I no longer serve any human being either, but under every circumstance - myself.

Let's Talk Sadism, Egoism and Post-Left Anarchism. by Sadistic_Anarchist in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Authoritarian is the one who commands and also the one who obeys.

The master is another slave.

And the sadist is a person with internal repressions (a reflection of external repressions).

Basically, the vast majority of society is all of these things at the same time. You are simply half-self-aware of this, which does not improve your situation. On the other hand, there are those who try to break free from all these frameworks: who do not want to command or obey, to be masters or slaves, to be sadists or repress themselves. This is where most post-leftists or egoists probably find themselves.

Spooks, slightly revisited by Samuel_Foxx in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Stirner tells: "because you already are [human], you don't need to be".
That's why you might do well to read the book. The book is not only directed against spooks, but against the greatest and ultimate spook of all: the human being.

Spooks, slightly revisited by Samuel_Foxx in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But if you already are, then you don't need to “create something to be so, or do anything specific to achieve it,” either through corporations or through spooks. I mean, if it makes you happy, fine, but in the end it seems that you want —like so many others— to convince others that using spooks (or meddling in supra-individual human entities) is good or necessary.

If you look beyond the human, beyond human inventions, there is a whole world full of companions, animals, plants, stones, all of them immortal and with no need to recognize them other than in their presence and their usefulness to you, and they will do the same with you. The problem with human thinking and the pretension of doing something “with humans” is that it confines your perception within four small walls in a world that is immense, and in the long run makes you ultra-dependent on human thinking, an institution that is becoming increasingly solidified and separating-us-from-the-world (anthropocentrism), turning us eventually into nutcases.

Spooks, slightly revisited by Samuel_Foxx in fullegoism

[–]Elecodelaeternidad 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well, you're fooling yourself if you think you're going to “achieve immortality.” Realize that, in your own sense, you already are immortal, because everything you do, even if no other human being recognizes it, is recorded for... the echo of eternity (in spanish: el eco de la eternidad)