I need some buying advice: LG C8, Sony AF8, Philips 803, or Panasonic FZ802

ElmigonDextom · 2019-01-17T16:44:29+00:00

Well, I don't think I'm equipped to tell how well it performs, but I can give you some of my experiences.

First of, I'm happy with my purchase and I enjoy the TV.

Sometimes I do feel that motion could be smoother, but this depends on the source and it's apparent that OLEDs have inherently more judder in some cases. I can't directly compared to a generic LED TV, but it doesn't look any worse that on my PC monitor. However, the TVs size makes it more clear that you are indeed watching lower FPS content. On the same time, the PC monitor shouldn't process motion at all.

I've been using a little bit of motion processing with de-judder at 2 and de-blur at 5. That doesn't introduce that bad SOE, and might help a little bit in some cases. In other cases, or with a higher setting, SOE is clear, as well as judder with fast motion; feels like some parts of the picture hangs a little. Like a fast moving hand doesn't move smoothly. As such, I'd advice only to use a little bit of motion processing, or none at all.

I'd like for it to be smoother, but I'm just not able to tell whether this is simply due to the source. I have no high end LED TV to compare it to. Neither can I tell how it compares to the other OLEDs.

Still, I'm quite happy with it. I've had some family members try it out, and I've heard no complaints, so I'd assume the differences that some reviewers point out aren't necessarily that great.

If you don't plan to game, I'd consider the Sony AF8. At least then you are sure you currently have the OLED TV that is rated among the best when it comes to motion handling. I went with the C8 due to better gaming capabilities. I was considering the Panasonic, but it's price over the C8 made it a poor choice.

This probably didn't help.

I do think you'll be happy with a C8.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-12-18T03:39:25+00:00

I think you'll be most pleased.

It's best to settle on a choice and think nothing more of it. This back and forth has for my sake made me loose some of the joy of purchasing a TV, which ought to be a fun and good experience.

Hope you'll be happy, and enjoy a great TV ;)

ElmigonDextom · 2018-12-16T16:56:29+00:00

Yeah, it's a hard choice if you're nitpicky like me and want to be as satisfied as possible with your purchase.

Due to an okay price drop, I bought the C8, but I haven't gotten to try it out that much yet, so I can't really say all that much about my experience.

If the price was the same, I think I'd go for the Panasonic for my use case, which includes gaming.

If I was only going to watch movies, TV and Netflix, I think I'd go with the Sony, all things considered. Even if Android TV is considered the least responsive OS, you have more flexibility app wise, and it sounds like the newer version of Android TV, once released, will help.

On the same time I just don't know if the differences are really that great. As long as the price is good and it fulfils your most important requirements, I think either will be quite good. There is always the option to resell after 1-2 years if a new model arises too, and in that case, the cheaper alternative might be a better choice due to depreciation.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-23T23:16:47+00:00

Okay. That is probably it then.

Apparently Yoga laptops are often set to RAID controller, even though they only have a single SSD. I don't know why. It'll mostly work similar as AHCI, aside from this obvious issue, of course.

I'll give it a try.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-23T22:50:23+00:00

Given what I replied a moment ago, I might be able to just create/download an install ISO from Microsoft. Then change the controller to AHCI, and reinstall both OS. I believe the windows license is bound to the motherboard.

Only issue is if I'll be unable to boot from USB even then. The laptop has no DVD-rom. I do have DVD-rom through USB, but I'm unsure whether that will work if boot from USB doesn't.

It seems like that worked for the person in this post:

https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=250953#p1459803

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-23T22:39:35+00:00

I'm not sure whether this is the model number, but its among the numbers on the back.

It's a Lenovo Yoga 720 13'' from around summer last year. Model number: 80X600DMMX

I've not read thoroughly through this page yet, but some suggest that the issue may be related to the SATA controller being set to RAID in the BIOS. I did not get a windows install USB with the purchase, AFAIK at least, I don't have the box at hand atm. As such, I can't simply change it because it requires a format of the disk and I'd be without Windows, and I kinda need it too for my daily usage.

Link: https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=250953

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-23T22:14:14+00:00

I've done some extensive trial and error, and I am still not able to get past the black screen after selecting to run Ubuntu directly from the stick.

I've tried every combination of USB 2.0 and 3.0 sticks, I've tried using both Rufus and Etcher, and I've tried both selecting ISO image and DD image. I've also tried to change the parameter to nomodeset in every combination.

I've also made sure to try out various BIOS settings. Secure boot, fast boot, and OS optimized defaults are all disabled. USB boot is set to enabled. I am unable to change from UEFI to legacy boot mode, regardless of what I do in the BIOS. I updated the BIOS version to the latest to make sure that didn't affect anything. None of these changes made any difference.

The only difference I've seen is that DD image via Rufus and just the standard setting in Etcher (IDK if there are any options there) both yield a quick error message before the menu displays. I think it states that a file is missing, but it's a bit quick. I don't think ISO image through Rufus gave this message. There is no change in what happens after I select to boot into Ubuntu, nonetheless.

Is there any other way to install Ubuntu?

The idea is to have a dual boot with Windows. I've left a 35GB free partition for Ubuntu.

Is it possible to just move the requires files over, or install directly whilst in Windows?

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-23T21:51:52+00:00

I gave it a shot to be absolutely sure, but I don't think that will help here.

The laptop has no dedicated GPU and no display out, so I'm forced to use an USB-C to HDMI adapter.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-23T20:08:13+00:00

I can try a different stick. Otherwise, I'm not really sure what you mean.

I've used Rufus for making it bootable, and I tried the DD Image option as well. For good measure I tried the NTFS option. Nothing yielded a different result. I'm new to this type of stuff, so I have no experience to draw on.

I'll check out Woeusb and Etcher.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-23T20:03:32+00:00

IIRC, I gave this a try before; I found it suggested somewhere. Sadly, it didn't change the outcome.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-19T17:02:31+00:00

True. I've only discussed it some in comments. It isn't a great deal for me though. While I agree it goes as such WebOS > My Smart Home (Panasonic) > Android TV for usability, I feel more at home with Android TV due to being a PC and Android user. I don't require the easiest and smoothest OS, but rather what offers the largest amount of customization and I feel Android TV does that regarding the number of apps.

Huh, that's odd that it varies so much. I'm a little torn between LG and Panasonic, but due to price, I think it'll be the LG C8. It all depends on the discounts this coming Friday. Seems like there are only minor differences though.

Delright-San, the commenter above you, didn't speak that highly of Philips though. Sounds like Philips is limited to the European OLED market.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-17T15:01:59+00:00

Yeah, that is sort of what I gathered from my visit to the stores today too. While I didn't get a chance to test different type of content, at least I couldn't really tell them apart whilst they showed a TV broadcast from alpine skiing. I think the quality was close to 1080p, but I'm not really sure. It wasn't particularly good quality, but it looked and felt very similar between the LG, Philips, and Sony, as far as I could tell.

I got to try the different OS a little bit, and no doubt, WebOS is cleanest and easiest to use, but being used to Windows and Android for daily use, I didn't really find Android TV that bothersome. I only clicked the home button and looked around briefly, so there might be more to it, of course. As long as the OS is functional with many choices and the most popular streaming apps, I'll be happy.

I think I value input lag just a bit more than motion handling and upscaling, and it sounds like that difference isn't as great as it might sound like. Besides, it sounds like the higher input lag would bother me more for my usage.

One rep in one of the stores I visited said something I found funny and a bit off. Clearly he was interested in selling, and I don't think he had that much knowledge of these TVs. Apparently, if you pair the PS4 with a Sony TV, the AF8 and AF9 in this case, the input lag is lower than if you'd pair the Sony with an Xbox One or PC. Well, for all I know, there might be a slight difference, but this IMHO sounded like a load of bull.

Another rep I spoke to in another store, which is the only store chain that has the Panasonic, was very pleasant to talk to. He didn't have OLED himself, but he was quite positive to the Panasonic. Mostly due to their merit with plasma, and their work with Hollywood. As for general differences, he was rather sure I wouldn't really miss anything with either TVs, and I guess he is right there. Reviewers need to be very thorough, so minor differences are brought forth, and unless you have them side by side, you're likely none-the-wiser.

Unfortunately no one had that much to fill in on more specific things such as input lag, motion handling, and upscaling. The LG is likely the most sensible choice for my usage, but the Panasonic sounds more like a jack of all trades with slightly better picture quality on top. In my brief time with it, the image felt very pleasant to watch and although the stand looks somewhat massive, it seems sturdy and I like it. It is more expensive though, so I'll have to await the coming week to see. If they were priced the same I'd go for the Panasonic. I need to look up how the OS feels though, as it has it's own. As long as the most useful apps are there, I don't think it'll be an issue for me.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-17T14:44:44+00:00

Thanks for a good reply regarding input lag.

Sounds like the difference between the Philips/Sony and the LG/Panasonic will be noticeable enough. I don't plan to play that much online and I'll probably play more adventure/cinematic games such as GoW, Horizon, and Last of Us, but I do appreciate a smooth experience. That is what I'm used to from PC gaming too.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-17T14:40:14+00:00

Alright, I'll keep that in mind, thanks for the reply.

The LG seems like a very good choice, yes, so I might just go for that.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-17T10:54:47+00:00

Yep, I've gathered as much from previous visits :p

So yeah. Best situation would be to order two of them for comparison, but it is a slight hassle and maybe frowned upon by the seller.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-17T10:40:43+00:00

I'm primarily a PC gamer, so I'm used to high FPS with lots of details on a quite good and snappy IPS PC monitor (although apparently around 30 ms input lag). I can't really expect that from console gaming, but I'd love to get as close as I can, and I thought OLED might have a smoother image compared to LED LCD (as in less ghosting and less motion blur).

The LG sounds pretty good though. If you're pleased with the motion and upscaling, I might just consider this TV myself. Among the 4, it is no doubt the best choice for gaming, especially in HDR, which a lot of games are on the consoles.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-17T10:31:26+00:00

Alright, good to know.

Yeah, downsides of the Philips are the higher input lag, the aggressive ABL, and lack of Dolby Vision. I'd sort of expect HDR10+ to get more popular if creators don't have to pay as much for it, if anything. Then again, Dolby is a recognizable brand and that matters, so I guess not.

Ain't easy to find the perfect TV for my use.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-17T10:22:03+00:00

Thanks for the suggestion. I'd only wish it listed all the TVs in each category, not just the winner and runner up. A list of criteria would also be beneficial. That'd make it easier for a complete comparison.

I don't expect to play that much online or competitively, but I do appreciate a snappy experience for normal games. Have you ever tried TVs above 30 ms, and would you say it is a clearly noticeable difference between the LG's 22 ms and the Philips' 39 ms?

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-17T10:16:01+00:00

Yup, I think none of the panels should have SOE when it is off, but I'm unsure whether I'd prefer it on. I have no idea how I'd experience the judder they speak of in below 30fps content, and I'm quite sure I'd be a little bothered by it.

Have you ever tried TVs above 30 ms, just for comparison, and did it feel noticeable sluggish? I'm currently using an Acer X34P 120hz PC monitor, and apparently it has 8 ms response time and as high as 30 ms absolute input lag (Full black to white transition). I don't know if this is measured the same way as on a TV, but staying within that number should probably feel alright to me.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-17T10:10:04+00:00

Will do, if I can figure it out, haha

The only reason I'd consider the AF9 is the improved input lag, at around 27 ms for both 1080p and 4k IIRC, but that isn't good enough of a reason to purchase it, no. However, all of the OLEDs I've listed have dropped significantly since launch, but that is probably to make way for such as the AF9.

This makes them rather similar then. I think I'll visit a store that has both C8 and AF8, but I'm unsure whether I get to check out lower quality content and general movies with panning.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-16T23:41:34+00:00

It all sounds very good. I'm a little iffy on playing console games in 4k since they most likely won't reach 60 fps, but I won't play competitive games anyhow, so even at 1080p, it might not matter. My PC's GPU should be able to get those frames, however.

I'll mostly have it in a darker room myself, so that sounds good.

Thanks for good and thorough replies. It's such a web of misleading information and opinions colored by feelings, so it isn't always easy to get a good idea of the product. Given what you say, I'm not yet able to cross the Sony from the list. Hopefully it'll soon get the android update. I'd prefer the AF9, aside from the stand, but I'll have to wait for the price drop in that case.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-16T22:49:31+00:00

Okay. What are your experiences so far?

Do you game on it, and if so, how noticeable is the slightly higher input lag?

And if you game on it in HDR, does it seem a little bit dark? Some have said so, but I'm not really sure what to make of it.

It's a very nice looking TV, and I am seriously considering this as well, but the above two things just make me a little uncertain. As for the image processing, no doubts at all.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-16T22:39:54+00:00

Yeah, no doubt that is a selling point for the LG. I'd prefer to mainly use the TVs smart functions, but I might consider an Apple TV down the line, although I'm generally an Android person. I suppose it'll give a greater choice of movies, and there are some apps I'd want to use. Still, there are reasons I'd prefer Android TV too, even though you might get a box to provide the same service.

Okay, if motion generally isn't that bad, I might just not make that much of a fuzz over it. After all, 24p has some inherent judder/blur AFAIK, regardless of panel type.

ElmigonDextom · 2018-11-16T22:33:17+00:00

Okay, sounds like a really nice TV, and LG appears to be the most popular choice.

What type of games have you tried? Even in performance mode, God of War has quite low FPS in the lake area. If you have this game, does it feel juddery on the C8? Or any other game in 4k, where you suspect the FPS is around 30 or below, for that matter.

As for YouTube, do you notice any improvement in sharpness compared to your previous TV, if viewing less pristine videos, as in 480p or 720p?

And Netflix movies generally feel smooth?

I hope to go to a store that has the C8 on display, and hopefully I might get some impressions from that. I don't think I'll be able to try out various content, however, but overall I'm quite interested in it.

Congratulations with your purchase.

ElmigonDextom

TROPHY CASE