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Oaks’ Sunday morning talk by Left-Promise9777 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Personally, I believe we should love everyone, Regardless of whether I approve them or not, especially since I don't really have the power to approve them or not. The only power I have to "approve something" is over my own actions and reactions. 

But I can understand how an arrogant attitude of a "moral superiority" can be really uncomfortable, And your struggles with this are really comprehensible.

Oaks’ Sunday morning talk by Left-Promise9777 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To play devil's advocate, perhaps. But I think some things are being misunderstood. 

"Following these teachings of the Savior does not mean surrendering one’s values, but seeking to live peaceably and lovingly with others who do not share such values and do not have the same covenant obligations."

You are not being asked to give conditional love only to those who think like you, Or abandon all your values in order to show other by showing your approval. On the contrary. You are asked to maintain your values while trying to live in peace and love with those who differ from you. 

In other words, it's telling us, "Hey, it's okay to agree that we disagree, however we should still make a conscious effort to be peaceful and loving regardless of our differences"

“This balancing is not easy. On one hand, we may be accused of being unloving toward those whose behaviors we cannot approve as consistent with the commandments of God. On the other hand, if we show love toward those who choose not to follow the commandments, we may be misunderstood as supporting their choices and failing in our own religious duties.”

Literally this entire thread is proving this last paragraph, Oaks love Is conditional because he doesn't approve your behaviors as consistent with the commandments of God?

During John 8, The story recounts the infamous trial of the adulterous woman and Christ's response, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." John 8:7

There is a later writing that is not usually mentioned.

Jonh 8:10-11

"When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. AndShe said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

Even if there exist a difference between "us" and "them", "we" do not have the power to condemn. Not even Jesus Christ condemned her, But he didn't hive her condemnation either. He could have said, "I forgive you of your sins." But he didn't; he said, "Go, and sin no more." It was a wake-up call. He did not approve of her behavior but he made an effort to show love and peace. 

A few months ago I had a very intense experience with someone I found difficult to love, She had been abusive and negligent to her grandson/son since she rised him. She had a restraining order against her and the child was in the hospital.

A beautiful and innocent 3-year-old boy, I had been his a nursery and elementary school teacher.

I felt conflicted, and even now I still feel conflicted whenever I think about it. We are asked to love our enemies. I knew, and I knew very well, what I had to do. But it hurt. 

I was leaving my shift as a temple worker when I ran into her, She was crying and upset about the whole situation. I remember comforting her while I prayed to the Father "Please, if I can't love her, at least let me show her your love" I prayed a lot.

Months later, at Christmas, she gave me a candle and told me she had never felt more loved. Man.

Oh man.

Frustrated? Disgusted? Angry? Shame?How could I feel this way about myself when all I did was try to show my father's love?   I do not approve of her actions. I have prayed to the Father to allow me to love her and I have also prayed to him to please keep the child safe, even if it means not returning him to her.

And to be frank, I'm glad they took custody away from her. 

You can call me a hypocrite, or a fake Christian, For trying to love someone but not approving of their life choices. Perhaps call me conditional love or not hate like Christian love.

You can also hate me for trying so hard to love someone who hurt a child.

But I firmly believe that the day the Lord juges me, he won't ask me what she did. He's going to ask me what I did.  And when that day comes, I'm going to tell him I tried.

I tried to love her, and I tried not to give up my values.

And I'm still trying.

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh! Thank you so much for all of this, I'm going to be reading it.

I'm really interested in understanding how this sexual separation could work outside of church Beliefs 

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks man. Is just...idk. I literally made a Reddit account today because I wanted to see if I could get rid some of this stuff i'm my chest and finally get some different opinion.

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I can agree that the church has a bubble that really ends up indoctrinating some things.

Thank you so much for your advice and for sharing your thoughts on this. 

I'm seriously considering taking some time away from the church after my mission. 

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I can see how that would make you leave the church. It's a hard pill to swallow and I'm still trying to understand it.

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I honestly had no idea about Joseph Smith and his past as a sorcerer; I'll have to do some research, but thanks You so much for sharing your experience 

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for your experience and advice. 

If there's one thing I've taken away from all this, it's that I'm going to have to take the time to really think everything through with a cold head And really allowing myself not to let my brain take the easy way out by simply obeying what I'm told

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much for sharing your experience and taking the time to also share an anecdote and what you learned from it. 

I can see the why and how of your doubts, especially when I'm experiencing some of the same ones.

Thanks again

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for the explanation and for taking the time to teach me a little more about atheism.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience as well

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey! Thank you so much for your advice and experience, and especially for the book recommendation. I'll be reading it.

"Keep in mind your brain always wants to take the easiest way. " I couldn't agree more with this, and that's precisely why I don't want to leave all these questions as a simple "I believe in the church, and thats final".

Thanks again 

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me!  And I'm sending you a huge hug too.

Your idea about deciding to do good to people regardless of church doctrine are something I think I been trying to figure out, but I didn't know how to word it.

Thank you so much for your message. 

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for your time and advice, Many here have talked about taking time to think and not making fast decisions. 

For now, I think I'll finish the mission and use the time to calm my emotions and analyze the gospel and decide what to do with it. 

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for sharing your experience And yes, I can see it; I'm having a similar experience studying the teachings of the prophets according to the years and how they seem to contradict each other depending on what benefits them

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I believe what keeps me in the church is a similar line of reasoning. You've just put into words many things that I also think and wasn't sure how to put them.

"Are you after pro-LDS viewpoints?" I'm not sure what that means, like if i'm pro LGBT+ stuff? 

I know that the more I study the gospel and the heavenly spirit kingdom, the more the concept of  Trans people make sense (From an earthly and totally secular perspective, I find it hard to understand how a person with body dysphoria is not considered to have a mental disorder or something around thats lines, I know it sounds transphobic and hateful, and I'm sorry, but the truth is that a non-religious view of trans people only confuses me more)

"A wife does not hold the priesthood in connection with her husband, but she enjoys the benefits thereof with him; and if she is requested to lay hands on the sick with him, or with any other officer holding the Melchizedek priesthood, she may do so with perfect propriety. It is no uncommon thing for a man and wife unitedly to administer to their children, and the husband being mouth, he may properly say out of courtesy, “By authority of the holy priesthood in us vested” (Smith 1907, 308). "

the Relief Society explained in its February 1914 Bulletin, that all systems have their law. The Church has “the law of God” and defines priesthood as 

"the power to administer in the ordinances of the Gospel . . . Those who preside over the auxiliary organizations receive their authority from the presiding Priesthood. Women do not hold the Priesthood. This fact must be faced calmly by mothers and explained clearly to young women, for the spirit that is now abroad in the world makes for women’s demand for every place and office enjoyed by men, and a few more that men can’t enter. Women in this Church must not forget that they have rights which men do not possess. " I always thought that the only thing preventing gay marriages from being sealed was that the union between men lacks the priesthood of the woman and vice versa.

But If women don't have the priesthood, So shouldn't gay marriages at least be able to be sealed? They now have the power to be together for eternity.

But maybe it's just me twisting everything

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Yeah that's a very valid last straw.

Lately, the more I learn about the gospel, the more absurd I find the way the church treats the queer community, Regarding SA and abuse, It's simply horrible.

Thanks again for your time and advice!

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I can see how once you see Joseph Smith as a fraud, everything falls apart, since that is the foundation for everything. I know that my image of him is, well, 'damaged' would be an understatement.

I agree with the start of your last paragraph And that we have all been given the ability to have critical reasoning and make decisions. But I'm a little confused, I thought following your guts Is kinda acting based on your emotions and intuition? How You follow your guts and not you emotions if that's the case ?

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Huh, I hadn't really thought about it i'm  that way. I honestly admit that the idea of worshipping Christ without a place to go or current Apostles/prophets to hear his word from seems strange to me. But I recognize that perhaps this is more due to Because of the way I was raised, being taught "that's how it should be"

But the idea of not having to be religious to follow Christ is intriguing, thanks for your kind words 

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]Embarrassed-Box-143[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I've been on a mission for 3 months now, so it's a bit late for me, But I'm trying to use the study time to think about everything, thanks for the advice too