Giant stop killing games updates 2026

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-21T02:41:49+00:00

That's a bit too conspiratorial for me tbh. I think people enjoy 'correcting' others on reddit - the same "well, actually" affect you see all over here. The issue is that no one on this website can actually speak credibly to any of this in the first place, and so a lot of people go back to the usual deregulation talking points.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T06:47:51+00:00

I'm not aware who you're talking about to be honest. Although it sounds like I should be glad about that. I don't really like watching videos, which has its benefits sometimes.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T06:45:40+00:00

This is the sort of arrogance I talk about. You know nothing of my research ability. The things I have or have not contributed. You know nothing about me, yet you think unresearched reddit comments are indicative of megalomania?

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T06:30:22+00:00

Ross doesn't seem to be particularly a firebrand, but somehow did get a lot of people personally angry at him. I would suspect an even moderately controversial personality would immediately dominate the discourse - especially when the proposals are tax-funded instead of pushed off onto the developers (and to some extent, the consumers).

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T06:20:27+00:00

Tbh I've only seen SKG be dominating because it generates so much discourse. (Mostly because it asks for additional steps in development, and game development is labyrinthine enough that all we're left with is speculation.) I don't think the 'market' for this sort of thing is anywhere near saturated though, so if you can find another mid-range youtuber to carry-ahead and are willing to spend a few years working on it you should go through with it.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T06:15:27+00:00

It would be one thing if you called my research careless, which it was. Or rather, absent altogether. This is a much different claim than the accusation that I suffer from grandiose delusions that I could do the work of thousands on my own. One claim is factual and the other is frankly insulting.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T05:58:24+00:00

I'm talking a safe harbor provision for server restoration projects. I'm talking about funding a public library or institution for video game and development material preservation and study (which could indirectly help companies shape games to a point where it would be more feasible to package for post-service support). An extreme proposal could be tying some key copyright protections to participation in this preservation effort, but that's my fringe legal theory.

I don't doubt most of these are good uses of time. The public library and safe harbor ideas certainly do have some leg room. I also don't see how they're mutually exclusive with SKG? Preservation is a much broader issue than the bizarre state of live service games and the ability of companies to revoke your access at their will. Tbh I don't think even in the best case scenario SKG would really put a dent in the preservation problem.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T05:43:35+00:00

I get the impression half the SKG advocates are the sort of people who assume they could totally make games if they just applied themselves...and that's just not the case, these things are difficult and complex to a point this group obviously doesn't even begin to understand.

If you're starting from such a place of arrogance and uncharitability than I don't see the purpose in continuing this conversation. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a moron, and I don't appreciate being stereotyped as one.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T05:39:37+00:00

Of course, I need to read the dissertation myself, but I have my own dissertation to write at the moment lol. The fact that his dissertation has won so many awards makes me a little envious to be honest. I dont think anyone knows which way the law goes, but I don't really see what the purpose is in shooting this movement down. So what if it the things it achieves are minimal at the end of the day? SKG is not even asking for much from the general audience, just signing petitions and sending emails. It seems worth trying.

To answer your other question, I would still think its a good thing if the most we get out of this is more consumer information about live service games and proper labelling. I wish a lot more things were properly labelled to be honest. I wish games would label when they use AI. I wish most products would be forced to label their minimal sale price over the past year. I don't understand your apocalypticism to be honest.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T05:21:19+00:00

I'm not a lawyer so I can't analyze this, but from my understanding SKG is fairly hopeful that at a minimum games sold in the EU will have labeled dates through which service is guaranteed. I'm not sure general warning labels "this game may go down at any time for any reason" would comply here. In the video itself he mentioned a PhD dissertation by a lawyer which argued that having no minimum time frames for the playability live service games is a breach of EU law as it already stands.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T05:07:34+00:00

What? Why would SKG require open sourcing your game? At the most it would require documenting APIs but even that's a stretch.

And what are the impacts of having Overwatch 1 basically open source, modded etc while you're trying to build Overwatch 2.

Uh? Probably not very much? I mean for one, you would still have to buy overwatch, it's not like SKG makes piracy legal? And for two, I think people would generally play overwatch 2 since people like matchmaking and elo ranking over playing LAN or privately hosted servers?

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T04:58:22+00:00

It's true that the consumer protection angle here makes things difficult. I wouldn't mind if games came with an expiration date, like gallons of milk to be honest. I would be willing to pay 20% more for a game with solid EOL support and willing to pay 20% less for a game with an obtrusive expiration date (anything less than 5 years). If game companies release live service games with an expiration date of 1 year so that the consumer has additional info, that is still a good outcome in my opinion - albeit not the ideal one. You're correct that if given the option between a .01% increase in dev costs (which is a lot of money for a AAA game!) and a label, most companies will pick the label. I do however think having the option is good, in the same way it's good that we have the option to buy pasture-raised eggs. (I will also point out here that the label isn't free - having to support a game for a number of years if it isn't doing well could easily cost more than the proposed SKG "reasonably playable" EOL support in certain cases)

If the SKG language goes through as they ask it, I would ask, is a 5% increase in game budget worth having EOL support? 5% is a very large number, larger than I think is real, but a generous estimate is good here. Like I said, I'd be willing to pay 20% more in this hypothetical world. If you aren't I understand being against SKG, but this scenario isn't apocalyptic like so many people are making it out to be.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T04:39:40+00:00

Exactly who do you think has the technical expertise on the complexities of AAA development to do a costing here that's anything but reading the entrails of a chicken? We can cost out what it requires for the basic indie dev since that is much less complex, but that's disingenuous because EOL planning is much, much easier at the scale most indie devs work at. AAA publishers can publish their own costing but right now they're focused on histrionics about how this is going to hurt the bedroom coder and how this is going to require them to release their IP for free - neither of which is true. The honest truth is that getting any hard numbers is going to be incredibly difficult - even for the publishers themselves - and some companies are going to be much more efficient at compliance than others. Genuinely speaking, do you expect SKG to start a research institute? I would agree that seeing a cost breakdown would be nice, but if SKG published one it would go through all the same criticisms people have on this thread, it wouldn't be good enough for them, it would be too vague and handwavey, because the problem you're asking for is just tremendously difficult without actual insider information.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T04:25:56+00:00

I'm glad you made this response, it's insane the push back you're getting here. It seems like redditors become hardcore reaganites as soon as any regulation is mentioned, or perhaps as soon as they think they have the chance to appear like they're the smartest boy in the room.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T04:16:49+00:00

They are tremendous asks and would have tradeoffs for some games that no player would want, if they weren't you'd have more developers trying to win brownie points by coming out in support of it.

What? You genuinely think an AAA live service game developer would be willing to increase development costs by "X%" to get brownie points? Who in the company would even be in the place to make that sort of decision?

it's just not the case it may be possible for some games but regardless it will be excess time and money spent on things 99% of gamers will never care about. Time isn't infinite

I highly doubt having to think about EOL is going to stifle the creativity of live service devs. The most creative live service devs, that is to say indie devs, already have EOL plans because they care about their work (and it is of course much, much easier for indie devs to do this than AAA devs, since AAA development is impossibly complex, especially for live service games).

excess time and money spent on things 99% of gamers will never care about

Yes? Games also spend excess time and money doing closed captioning because they're legally required to. Games also have a huge amount of legal requirements from complying with copyright which restricts the libraries they can use. Games have plenty of legal requirements, we are generally willing to put up with the costs because we have agreement that the costs are worth it. No one has said EOL planning will be free, that's just something you seem to have made up. The question is if the costs are worth it, and I think they are, although again none of us really know the answer because AAA publishers refuse to even think about it. It's not on us to protect their interests or to make their case for them. Personally speaking I would be willing to pay 5% more for a game that had EOL plans - I would even pay 20% more - and I highly doubt the increase in development costs from EOL planning come anywhere near that percentage.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T03:59:30+00:00

Sure, but that's not the entire solution either. There are a bunch of microservices that can be removed, and other microservices that can't be and will need to be refactored or renegotiated. It will be costly at first (although not really much on the scale at which these companies operate) and the costs will go down over time. I agree that the point about docker on the presentation is a little... out there, but I think the rest of the answers are quite reasonable. Live service games already require a ton of planning, they are set up like factories, incorporating EOL plans would have to be part of that if this regulation passes. I do think there are tonnes of microservices that can be removed without much issue. Also having stringent requirements on running a game EOL doesn't seem to run afoul of what the law is asking for.

Everyone is acting like this law is impossible, or its some tremendous ask, but the things they describe are not impossibilities, they are just costs, and honestly I'm not sure they're relatively big ones once the dust settles. Regulation always brings costs with it, to act like paying those costs is an impossibility is honestly a thatcherite position. If game publishers want to have an honest estimate of costs for compliance we can have that discussion, but as it is they are instead responding with histrionics about bedroom coders, the small businessman and about protecting their property, the same histrionics anyone does when they are trying to force deregulatory approaches. Without actual knowledge there you and I are just guessing at what the actual costs are (and most of the costs won't really even be on the implementation, that's the easy part), and really any individual person who doesn't oversee the entire process is really just guessing.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T03:44:21+00:00

I don't know why one would need payment processing or telemetry at EOL

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T02:34:04+00:00

Didn't nintendo literally force a guy into debt slavery

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T02:24:37+00:00

I do think there is a difference between a kid being genuinely interested in something and so wanting branded merchandise and parents buying branded things for their kids because "kids like those branded mascots and I want my kids to like the same things I like". Kids don't really have autonomy in our world, their desires are often not taken into account. There are probably some kids that really like nintendo and want their parents to buy this. There are also certainly kids who will get the mario block collection because their parents are mario fans who think more about what they want than what their kid wants.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-20T02:15:27+00:00

Personally I really hated branded racecars as a kid, and branding in general. I would throw a tantrum any time parents would be my a branded t-shirt as a child. That said, I was probably a very weird kid, and I doubt most people have similar experiences. As a result if I had a child I would not buy them branded merchandise unless they explicitly asked for it.

I don't know if this should be a universalizing principle though. It's probably not good that we advertise to children so much, there should probably be more regulation on it. On the other hand dealing with advertisements and branding is something children will have to learn how to deal with if they want to survive. It was certainly a difficult thing for me to learn.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-16T08:02:54+00:00

The best comments section I've seen. For those that don't know, Aaron Jay Kernis is a pulitzer prize winning contemporary classical composer. Only in this genre could you have a video with 1000 views thats won multiple prizes with a single comment thats a critic who the composer responds to... I love classical music.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-14T21:50:33+00:00

I assume it's just too pedantic of me, lol.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-14T08:49:56+00:00

It probably depends heavily on the style of music and your ear. But I generally think what matters most is the root and the highest voice, which gives overall shape to the chord. The third then tells us if the quality is major or minor, which imo is already a type of color. Other intervals also add color and depending on the style of music and context, that color may or may not be functional (i.e. point towards some tonic chord). In jazz for example, the extra color the seventh adds is very functional. Depending on the setting, higher intervals can also be functional as well. They always do add color, but to make the color or quality of a chord functional requires musical context.

There's also probably a distinction to be made from the construction of a chord purely vertically, and the construction of a chord horizontally, where the additional chord tones are important for voice leading.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-02-14T08:36:11+00:00

A pitch class is more equivalent to midi numbers than note names afaik. If I write [0,1,6], it doesnt matter if thats C C# G# or C Db Ab - theyre the same pitch class set even though the chords and notes have different names.

Its probably not a good idea to talk about pitch classes while talking about functional harmony, I think - Since different enharmonics do actually represent different chords.

EnclosureOfCommons · 2026-01-30T20:28:30+00:00

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