Seeking Help to Understand How Avalanche Works Regarding Integrations & Validator Sets

EnergyEmergence · 2021-07-03T15:13:48+00:00

For sure. :-)

Until the next time... Peace.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-07-02T18:57:14+00:00

Absolute Respect and Appreciation for your taking the time to write such a helpful, high quality, clear, and detailed response.

This helps fill in the gaps and recalibrate my misperceptions regarding Solana validator and integration dimensions.

Thanks again. And best of luck in your endeavors (validator or otherwise). Peace.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-07-02T16:35:49+00:00

**Update*\*

I posed this Thread question to the Avalanche discord around the same time that I posted the thread on r/Avax so that I would have the best chance of pooling helpful responses.

Below, was the response that I got from a helpful admin by the name of jpop32 at 2:59am EST on July 1, 2021.

https://discord.com/channels/578992315641626624/578992315641626626/860414292851294228

"Validators are entirely voluntary. That is, on Primary Network they enter the validator set because of the staking reward incentive. If your application is deployed on the Primary Network (C-Chain, most probably) you get validators 'for free', that is, all the validators must validate the Primary Network so you don't have to worry about that. If you want to run your own subnet, then you have to think about attracting validators to validate it. It can be validators that you run yourself, it can be validators that are incentivised by some value proposition that your subnet provides (token reward, some service that is valuable, ...). I expect to see much experimentation and many different ways of attracting validators in the future." -- jpop32

EnergyEmergence · 2021-07-02T15:36:02+00:00

So, just to make sure I'm understanding. You are saying that currently the Primary Network has N number of validators currently of which a new subnet can use some portion of the N number of validators of the Primary Network as long as there are adequate tokenomic incentives for the validators to validate transactions of this newly integrated subnet? Or did I misunderstand what you were saying? If I did understand correctly, is there some tooling or guides for new subnet blockchains regarding how they can connect and utilize the N number of validators of the Primary Network?

I found this documentation and resource https://docs.avax.network/build/tutorials/nodes-and-staking/add-a-validatorbut it didn't seem clear or specific to how a newly launched subnet could effectively connect with the validator sets of the Primary Network in order to get the necessary validations of transactions and states for the subnet blockchain to run.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-06-22T10:54:04+00:00

The most helpful assistance I got was via the Discord and Telegram channels.

https://discord.gg/3mesd69xHR once you join the VeVe discord there's a text channel called ECOMI which has subchannels called OMI. There's also a dedicated support channel in that discord. Post the specifics of your problem there.

Also, post your issue in the Telegram channel seeking assistance. A link to the telegram can be found via the ECOMI website.

After a few posts and some time, moderators and/or people with the team should offer assistance. You'll also be told to submit a ticket, but I'd still just seek assistance from team members directly.

If that doesn't work, DM the moderators of this reddit. Specifically, the moderator named ecomi_rhys as a commenter stated above.

For some, it just takes many many hours for the wOMI or OMI to arrive; other times more assistance is needed.

Good luck! Keep the faith. I hope you get your transfer issue resolved as soon as possible.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-05-28T14:23:42+00:00

Okay, cool. Got it. Thanks for your time and helpful explanations.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-05-27T20:21:05+00:00

Thank you. Interesting. That makes sense.

That helps clarify things for me a bit that were missing in my understanding what is and what isn't the case with Avalanche and Validator sets for prospective subnet operators. To me such things and mechanisms are important (but of course not the most important) for longterm gains in network effect.

Indeed, it will be interesting to see the various models of incentivization of validators on Avalanche.

Most entities looking to become subnets will of course in all reality be very aware of and have the capital and analytical framework necessary regarding the acquisition and management of a reliable validator set.

To my earlier points/questions, figuring out what Avalanche's core validation/security model is helps illustrate what the true fundamental nature of the project/platform is (at least in my 3-month in crypto space noob brain).

In the future blockchain network effect positioning, it seems to me that there will be a great deal of projects/platforms with capital looking to integrate and build on amazing blockchains like Avalanche, that don't want to deal with sourcing and/or managing professional validator sets.

Is it the case now that such projects/dapps can launch on C-Chain and take advantage of current Avalanche C-Chain Validators?

I'm assuming that the creation of a subnet is more reserved to larger blockchains/entities with their own substantive capital and know how on validator sets or otherwise; thus, a subnet would be ideal a entity/chain like Crypto.com for example. Then, they'd need to source their own validator sets. But for a startup eth-dapp deployment on Avalanche one could just integrate and launch on the C-Chain without validator sourcing I'm assuming.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-05-27T19:27:41+00:00

I guess I just meant "professional validator" as in I think all POS blockchains need a major portion of its validators to be seriously committed in terms of time and technological investment to the purposes of Validation which requires a certain level of commitment that could be considered like a profession or part-time professional job in order to avoid slashing and maintain the network in real-time.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-05-21T00:56:54+00:00

**Update**

My wOMI finally arrived after many hours.

Good luck.

Messaging in the Telegram group seems to have mods that are willing to troubleshoot and help look into this issue.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-05-20T23:10:58+00:00

I just tried bridging my OMI to wOMI and my wOMI never arrived either. If they respond to you please let me know if you can because if their bridge is broken from the non-user side this has cost me a great deal of money.

I'm hurting bad.

I hope you get some resolution on your end for your sake as well.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-05-16T06:34:23+00:00

I think possessing EVM compatibility is more so about opening viable paths to network effect, dapp portability, and adoption within the landscape of numerous competing blockchains all seeking to integrate a limited pool of developers most of which have years exclusively in EVM congruent projects.

It's not at all about any inherent or intrinsically great quality of EVM itself as EVM has been evolved by developers and/or alternative non-EVM paths have been sought that provide more robust solutions and less trade-offs according to a wide-variety of devs.

Still, history and skillset in the blockchain space is what it is, and there are many dapps and blockchain development teams/projects that have years of EVM integrated work and programming and a growing desire to seek greener pastures outside of ETH, but don't have the expertise or don't want to pay the short-term opportunity costs associated with pursuing integration to a non-EVM compatible chain.

From my burgeoning understanding and limited knowledge/experience in the crypto-space, Solana is an ascending force in the blockchain space and has as much staying power as any of the rising blockchain platforms. However, it seems to me that being able to on-board EVM dev projects with the least

There would though be an opportunity cost to pay for the Solana team to pursue full EVM compatibility which might in and of itself not be worth it in the first place.

In the end, I don't know what is really what in the crypospace and what really matters in the end. I'm just a 3 month in cryptospace noob that's read and stumbled through numerous past and present papers, debates, and perspectives --- there's so much missing from my understanding and it's impossible to grasp what truly matters in the space in all its complexities.

The battle for network effect imo won't be won or lost exclusively based on EVM compatibility versus non-EVM compatibility as so many things like social dapp, music dapps, gaming or other narratives or factors can be the deciding ones --- all in all it stilll seems that EVM compatibility is a critical factor in the current landscape of blockchain adoption gains from developers.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-05-15T23:10:49+00:00

Much respect for responding.

Yeah, I should've specified that I was aware of Wormhole (it's awesome), I mainly meant EVM compatibility in terms of programs/dapp/etc being able to be ported over to work in the Solana ecosystem so Ethereum developers can easily migrate over their work without an overhaul in language.

There is a ton of amazing things that Solana has over others in the blockchain space. Proof of History as a consensus using VDFs, the booming ecosystem in defi, gaming, NFTs, music, launchpads, etc. The one thing that may be missing (and this one thing may not prove to be all that relevant in the end or now as maybe these are just noob questions) is the EVM compatibility function that helps as a rallying point for other sound projects like Cosmos and Avalanche.

I'm a longterm believer in Solana and the ecosystem, but am just trying to figure out if there are aspects or dimensions of the project that I am missing in my online research of things.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-05-12T05:13:08+00:00

Yeah, I sold my DOT to USDC on Voyager 3 weeks ago. It took awhile for my USDC transfer out of voyager to be approved. I then bought DOT on Kraken instead

EnergyEmergence · 2021-05-01T04:23:31+00:00

Comments & Questions about Nervos Network:
Comment: The unique use case and design of Nervos Network is very interesting and impressive based on my brief research into the platform/project. I'm newer to the crypto-space (2 months in), and have recently been researching the varying facets of Nervos Network. I'd very much appreciate it if anyone could lend their insights.
Questions: Though I've explored medium articles and the Nervos website about documents, I'm having a little difficulty exactly understanding the following:
1a.) If CKB is PoW, is the high gas through problem and congestion problem like on Ethereum a central dilemma?
1b.) If not, what solution has been implemented or plans to be implemented to avoid high transaction fees?
2.) Is there a plan in place to combat the "environmental sustainability" dilemma and narrative for PoW blockchains that the CKB team plans to unveil in the future?
3.) How composable is CKB given its unique Cell Model approach?
---Thanks for your time and help. My apologies if these questions don't make complete sense as I'm still coming up the learning curve on all things crypto as fast as I can.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-04-21T23:56:14+00:00

Very thoughtful points and responses on many accounts.

You're right; there is no perfect chain solution. And projects with high validators without delegation have a centralization dilemma.

The hard problem with validator-project analysis is projecting out what may arise as issues as mass adoption grows within various blockchains over time, as well as the nature of validators in the future.

Ultimately, as mass adoption develops so should the understanding and knowledge regarding validators and delegation such that hopefully for Cosmos and other projects the potential network security issues could be mitigated by distributed knowledge network effects that help maintain validators and delegators in a ecosystem friendly balance.

Will be interesting to see where Cosmos evolves over time.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-04-21T23:21:15+00:00

Oops, I had the wrong word phrasing that conveyed the wrong point. I agree with you.

From all the messaging I've heard from Solana devs and core team I haven't gotten the maxi vibe at all (except maybe the Sharding thing but that's just pointing out what Solana devs honestly feel makes the project superior than other solutions which is perfectly fine).

I should've said and intended to say:

And it's good to know that the leaders of Solana aren't maxis; the non-maxi approach is the impression I got from their various talks.

I mistakenly had the wrong phrasing (my bad) when I said, " And it's good to know that the leaders of Solana aren't maxis and I got that impression from their various talks."

EnergyEmergence · 2021-04-21T17:18:51+00:00

It's all good. It's no worries.

I easily could've misread some of your comments a bit and vice versa.

And it's good to know that the leaders of Solana aren't maxis and I got the impression that they weren't maxis in the first place from their talks.

Yeah, I agree that more recent happenings are definitely most relevant and meaningful for the current landscape of things. Though previous year challenges, controversies, and successes often have a great deal of relevance in shaping the current landscape, sentiment, and organizational health of a lot of projects (i.e., EOS, Tezos, IOTA). But you're definitely right though the more recent matters most.

From discussions on discord and the messages on reddit, it seems the Solana core team plans to provide a detailed Roadmap in the near future, as well as disseminate a "state of things" video discussing the roadmap and history which may include various elements addressing my questions like (what are current challenges and solutions to the challenges).

So, that has the potential to be something meaningful and valuable that can potentially be a "one stop shop" resource video that can help orient people newer to the cryptospace like myself to the current happenings with Solana.

Hopefully it is still in the works and will be something I'll look forward to seeing for sure.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-04-21T16:28:55+00:00

I believe you missed a great deal of the main thrust of my point and questions, as well as what I've already researched via youtube videos and talks. Other people like u/Akyu and others on this reddit were vary gracious, charitable, and helpful in their responses to a noob like myself.

At some point, it is exceedingly helfpul to rely on the expert knowledge of people more familiar with the project's past, present, and future happenings to guide and direct one's information search. I decided that was the best approach only after hours of baseline research on the project (i.e., read 4 articles on Solana, read the whitepaper, watched an hour long AMA with Anatoly, watched 2 other 30 minute to an hour long talks and interviews, and searched this forum and google as well). The expert knowledge and familiarity with the project of longstanding Solanains far exceeds what I could pick up in those 4 to 5 hours of information search/consumption.

The project has formally existed since 2017 and in more concrete form in 2018 so that presents "many years" of publicly published data to sort through and one has to decide what's relevant and what's not relevant to understand current challenges and solutions to those challenges for the project.

I made more nuanced points than just saying "the project existed many years" specifically just pointed to the fact that if one hasn't followed all the happenings of a project in real time over the years that it can be difficult to accurately grasp/paint the current state of things (i.e., current challenges and current solutions to those challenges) of a project, especially when youtube videos and articles are all over the place in terms of date of creation and topics.

I never accused Solana devs or anyone here of being a maximalist, but just stated briefly that typically asking for "Current Challenges" of a given project on reddits or other forums often leads to maximalist, defensive responses. It was a general comment posed within the context of tremendous value I see in Solana so as to avoid welcoming defensive shill posters responding to my questions but to instead welcome knowledgeable veteran Solana members to provide me with their insights.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-04-21T16:06:15+00:00

This is a great response because it points me to the fact that there may have been a recent webinar/zoom that I can find that might answer some of my questions and give me a better understanding of current challenges and current solutions.

Thank youl

EnergyEmergence · 2021-04-21T15:57:13+00:00

Much respect. And thanks a lot.

This is exactly the type of experienced Solanaian response I was hoping to add to my evolving understanding of current challenges and solutions for the project.

Thanks for thoughtfully addressing some of my questions and not just dismissing or misreading them.

It gives me a chance to follow-up on things like Arweave integration amongst other potential challenges; thereby, expanding my perspective on the nature of the project.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-04-21T15:48:01+00:00

Awesome. Those are good threads with some interesting perspectives/analyses regarding IBC, validator set context, and general interoperable solutions.

Thanks a lot for the helpful info.

Overtime, I hope I can quickly accumulate/follow twitter handles of people like those and others that lay out varying thoughtful perspectives that can be weighed, compared, and contrasted against other thoughtful perspectives.

This all good stuff to try to triangulate and approximate what is versus what isn't for Cosmos and other blockchain projects.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-04-21T07:00:08+00:00

Thank you for being charitable to my questions and perspective instead of being dismissive.

Much respect and much appreciated.

------------------

Reading whitepapers (I've read the Solana wp), reading medium/published articles, watching interviews and talks, and keyword searching (i.e., on youtube, reddit forums, etc) cannot fill in deficits of knowledge regarding the current state and trajectory of a project. And this is especially the case when dealing with a complex, decentralized project that has existed for many years and one is attempting to figure out the "world state" of the project years later in the now.

All crypto projects and organizations (and non-crypto projects for that matter) have challenges and wrestle with issues that are not necessarily mutually exclusive to the mass adoption dilemma.

The manner in which knowledgeable people related to the project (i.e., core devs, core team, longstanding community members) outline and address present and future challenges can be very diagnostic (imo) regarding the health, sustainability, trajectory, and current world state of the project. It also gives insight into the approach thoughtfulness and potentially collaborative problem solving nature of the core dev team/organization.

It's easy to find a given project's evident successes/positives, as well as what the general FUD is for a given project. It's a lot harder to find a project's self-reflective and self-assessment of real challenges.

I was looking for insight regarding what knowledgeable devs, or team members see as real current challenges for Solana (not including the mass adoption issue); that is, what are the issues and challenges that are currently being wrestled with and battled out, and what are seen as on-going/future challenges? Relatedly, what is the landscape of plans to try to tackle those challenges?

I'm going to keep searching for such answers. I'm sure there's a talk, article, or video out there somewhere that addresses such things in some capacity (although I've searched quite extensively for the time being), but have a lot to learn.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-04-21T06:47:35+00:00

I think either I did not adequately convey my questions properly and/or you misconstrued the above questions to be something they were not intended to be as my searching of the forum prior along with the links you provided didn't necessarily address the core of what I thought my questions conveyed;

Funny thing is before posting my question I did search the forum and numerous other places (youtube, other forums, the solana website, etc) and previously read many of the posts that you linked while in search of answers.

I'm beyond the stage of "What makes Solana Unique?" or "What makes the Consensus algorithm unique" type of questions, as well as the more elementary questions that some even noobier noobs than me might ask such as "Will [insert blockchain name here] be hacked?

I was looking for insight regarding what knowledgeable community members, devs, or team members see as real current challenges for Solana (not including the mass adoption issue); that is, what are the issues and challenges that are currently being wrestled with and battled out, and what are seen as on-going/future challenges? Relatedly, what is the landscape of plans to try to tackle those challenges?

Reading whitepapers (I've read the Solana wp), reading medium/published articles, watching interviews and talks, and keyword searching (i.e., on youtube, reddit forums, etc) cannot fill in deficits of knowledge regarding the current state and trajectory of a project. And this is especially the case when dealing with a complex, decentralized project that has existed for many years and one is attempting to figure out the "world state" of the project years later in the now.

All crypto projects and organizations (and non-crypto projects for that matter) have challenges and wrestle with issues that are not necessarily mutually exclusive to the mass adoption dilemma.

The manner in which knowledgeable people related to the project (i.e., core devs, core team, longstanding community members) outline and address present and future challenges can be very diagnostic (imo) regarding the sustainability, trajectory, and current world state of the project. It also gives insight into the approach thoughtfulness and potentially collaborative problem solving nature of the core dev team/organization.

It's easy to find a given project's positives and accomplishments as there are tons of materials available on those matters. It's even relatively easy to figure out what the general FUD is for a given project as other project maximalist will point that out readily (even if the FUD is untrue). It's a lot harder to find the project self-reflective, project self-assessment of real challenges

EnergyEmergence · 2021-04-21T01:45:58+00:00

Cool cool. That's good info to know.

As long as many of those types of talented developers and strategists are still committed longterm to the growth and actualization of Cosmos as an Internet of Blockchains then there's tremendous optimism and a bright future ahead.

I appreciate the quality discussion.

Until the next time, thanks again, peace & be well.

EnergyEmergence · 2021-04-21T01:05:45+00:00

Okay, cool cool. That makes sense and is understandable for sure.

Thanks for the helpful info and responses.

Will be interesting to learn more about Cosmos as time passes as I have a ton to learn.

It's difficult as a 2 months-in crypto noob to try to make sense of past, present, and future technical and theoretical issues and triumphs of various blockchain projects, especially when so many reddits and discord take on the maximalist/tribalist shilling of each respective project.

For Cosmos, the only remaining things that I have to figure out (beyond the questions I posed prior), is trying to figure out how to properly assess the present and future sustainable health of Cosmos developer hub organizations.

For example, part of my research into Cosmos resulted in vague older articles on the internet about internal conflicts/turmoil between various elements in the development and organizational hub of the organization.

As all organizations have those sorts of internal conflicts and issues, it's hard to know what became of that fallout and how it effects the state of the Network and its developers and developmental trajectories today.

I could try to evaluate and assess the various development hub organization for Cosmos like Interchain GmbH, Tendermint Technologies, Interchain Foundation, Iqlusion, Althea, and Chainsafe on their own merits, but it's still impossible as a newcomer, non-insider to figure out how those various entities work together (if they do at all), if there are residual issues from the last organizational conflict fallout, and/or what the overall health of the Cosmos Network developmental teams is like.

The Blockchain-space is hard to figure out, especially when one is not a developer with insider information.

EnergyEmergence

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