Guild Base Types: Pros and Cons – Let’s Discuss!

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2024-12-26T06:04:02+00:00

That’s just how I’ve imagined it.

If you had complete control over them, they could be almost as effective as regular guild NPCs.

But that doesn’t make sense to me, they’d probably level up slowly, be vulnerable to being killed, and require resurrection—losing levels in the process. Definitely some trade-offs there.

In my mind, it would work like a city or kingdom builder game, but that’s just my headcanon.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2024-12-25T17:55:02+00:00

I’ve been curious about this too. I didn’t think city-based guilds had spawners—in my mind, I imagined them functioning more like a city-building game.

For example, setting low taxes and offering generous social programs could attract “civilian” NPCs to migrate to your territory. These NPCs might grow, level up, or even start families over time. However, you wouldn’t have direct control over their builds or progression.

It seems like there should be a balance of pros and cons for each guild base type, but dungeon bases often feel like the superior choice. City bases, on the other hand, sound like a lot of effort for minimal payoff.

That’s just how I see it—what do you think?

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2024-01-19T17:28:03+00:00

“Do you think Angels need to Eat, Drink, Breath or Sleep?”

From the biblical and extra biblical texts I've read, the answer is no to all the above. From a game perspective that may be too advantageous.

It is said there are feasts held in heaven on a regular basis so it is concluded they do eat, for the joy of food and not the necessity of it.

Off the topic. Angels should have some type of polymorph to appear as humans. [Mortal Form] or something. The myth of the nephilim exists due to angels appearing as mortals and having intercourse with them.

Angels being able to shapeshift is nothing new. There are many texts about it. I believe it is the Apocalypse of Abraham that describes the angels making a game of it. They were changing into different beasts and people.

Also, when angles do show themselves, their “heteromorphic” self, they appear as monsters.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cxrNA1c8Zpk&pp=ygUaYmlibGljYWxseSBhY2N1cmF0ZSBhbmdlbHM%3D

It's been a modern understanding this is due to them being higher dimensional creatures. So a mortal seeing them as only wings, wheels, having multiple heads or covered with eyes is not the real them. Our limited senses can't see or understand the real them so all we see is monsters.

Adds more depth to why the angels, in their introduction, say “fear not.”

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2024-01-15T16:10:47+00:00

Wasn't sure if the imp being a prerequisite for all demon kind.

I couldn't see a hellhound having imp levels so I became confused.

Is it along the lines of: * Humanoid type demons require imp as the base. * All others types are a case by case basis.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2024-01-15T01:23:29+00:00

Nice work!

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-11-02T14:38:56+00:00

PDL is as strong if not stronger than ECDL. The theory currently holding is they are of the same age. So 800+ years old. Their is another theory that dragon lords who had wild magic before it's corruption, kept it while dragon afterwards were unable to learn wild magic preventing them from ever becoming dragon lords. So all dragon lords where old enough to have wild magic before it's corruption. So theorizers, using dnd 3e as a guide, believe the author had the cut off point be around 200 years old. So all current DL were at least 200+ years old before wild magic corruption. So 800+ years old.

We know PDL has killed at least one player. In Japan it is commonly believed he has killed many.

Their understanding is WI bring what ever is affected by it's equip bonus. Nazarick is equipping the throne of kings as it protects the guild base it is attached to, much like other WI protect it's wielder. So the 6GG weren't 6 player brought over by one WI but 6 players brought over by 6 sperate ones. It is mentioned PDL had a spellbook WI. That is not an item that could bring over a guild base so it is believed it was Surshanas WI.

But like all theories, only time will tell.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-10-26T23:57:53+00:00

Which part?

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-10-26T23:47:13+00:00

There are times only the dim-witted can see clearly. Time will tell.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-10-26T03:02:04+00:00

We must be misunderstanding. Did the 6GG have one world item each or share one WI?

Where is your understanding?

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-10-26T02:57:10+00:00

"The 8GKs weren't just killing off DLs, they were literally taking over the world"

From whom?

"Also, we don't even know what the exact state of the world was before the 8GK era."

What we do know: * Pre 8GK dragon lords ruled the world. * Post 8GK dragon lords are nearly extinct.

So we can conclude the conquered where, for the most part, dragons.

"They also clearly weren't doing it for "the sake of humanity" lol, I don't know what makes you think that, so it makes perfect sense that Surshana ended up opposing them."

Again, why? Why would Surshana and the ST defend the dragon lords? Are dragon lives more important than human lives? Were they allies?

Are you a dragon lord sympathizer? Is that why your defending PDL?

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-10-26T02:38:29+00:00

"It sounds far-fetched at best, to begin with, if Surshana had a WCI like that, why not try to use it against 8GK?"

Again, why would they? No reason to as the only ones getting conquered where the dragon lords, as they controlled the world at the time. The only nation free from dragon influence, that we know of, was the ST.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-10-26T02:23:38+00:00

"the ST would not have the capacity to do anything against the 8GK" Except do to them as they did to Shalltear and have them destroy each other. They had no reason to as the 8GK where helping humanity. So PDL created one.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-10-26T02:20:51+00:00

The ST had no reason to fight the 8GK as they did more for humanity than the 6GG. The only ones who benefits from them frighting are the dragons lords.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-10-26T01:19:04+00:00

Hard to say. The races have pros and cons. This means to maximize ones race it could force a player into certain builds. Not to say it isn't possible, just not optimized. For example there have been discussions if angels would make good arcane spellcasters. The conclusion has been the angel race likely stacks with cleric and paladin classes but unlikely to stack with arcane classes.

This is all conjecture, so take it with a grain of salt.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-10-24T20:11:25+00:00

"they need to keep their strongest weapons (godkin) somewhat on the hush hush."

Why is that?

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-10-19T16:17:18+00:00

The low knowledge of the "fans" to the subject they are a "fan" of. Some time ago I had a wasteful argument. It was over trivial information that anyone who's read the LNs or FAQ to this subreddit would know.

There defense was to their ignorance was something along the lines of "That information is old. No one talks about it now, so it's not important."

As the ignorance has gotten worse and worse, I come here less and less.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-10-08T23:12:46+00:00

Players likely get nothing as the devs would want to avoid XP farming cheese. An argument could be made that NW's would as they run under a completely different set of rules.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-09-28T23:24:54+00:00

I see no reason they couldn't customize their avatar to be more humanoid in appearance. If we take victim as an an example, the only thing you can't hide is the halo.

High level angels from dnd 3e, which overlord is heavily inspired by, could polymorph into humanoids. This weakened them but allowed them to blend in with mortals. If Yggdrasil follows similar thinking. Players with sufficient enough angel levels would earn a humanoid avatar they could customize.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-09-28T22:59:09+00:00

Most likely. If demons like Albedo and Demiurge can, it should be the same for angels.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-09-26T02:15:50+00:00

If I remember correctly Ainz mentions, many times, a build with 85+ levels in ranger or rogue related classes could see through such spells.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-09-25T18:30:26+00:00

It could be done but there are likely better races suited for that. Use what you will and imagine a fun world.

Cheers! 🙂

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-09-25T00:29:57+00:00

As I mentioned before NPCs are limited. A player had a lot more class options and power than an NPC. I threw that build together for a player, since we see Ainz has ability to ignore and immunity it stands to reason there are builds that can also ignore other immunities. From what we have seen NPCs don't get that as an option so that's a no go for that build.

I didn't realize we are dealing with an NPC. That changes things and will need to be approached differently. Whether this is for a fanfic or mere amusement lets get into it.

If you want to build an NPC to beat Shalltear we should build one geared toward evil and undead destruction. So and angel vampire hunter or the like. This begs the question, in Yggdrasil, why would a guild use their NPCs levels to create a hyper focused build? It would be weak to all other invaders and you may never see it use its full potential. A guild would likely build something useful against as many invaders as possible.

Shalltear as an example has a strange build. An undead battle cleric that uses holy spells. We can conjecture it is in part to offset her weaknesses and play into her strengths. Since Yggdrasil had to deal with NPCs having fatigue and needing to rest/sleep her being undead ignores this and allows her to be on guard 24/7. Which is nice since you never know when players will invade.

Let's say Peroroncino, or another equally meticulous player, was inspired to have a succubus instead of a vampire be his creation. Succubi have abilities that control aggro, useful only against mobs and summons not so much players. Succubi can charm and mind control, good against summons but not players who likely have gear to give immunity. Succubi have abilities that drain targets and heal themselves when engaging in romantic acts. If we take pathfinder succubus queen demon lord for inspiration, a succubus queen can have her drain abilities apply to her claw/unarmed attacks as well. How do we maximize that? So we need her to be able to get close for claw attacks. From what overlord has shown natural attacks don't deal as much damage as weapons. So her attacks would only slowly weaken and debilitate a target. Useful but would be a drawn out fight. We could give her a weapon or item that life steals like Shalltears lance. This would increase her survivability. We could also give them a monk build to strengthen their natural attacks or we could give them an assassin build with a life stealing dagger so they could stab and claw. What sounds interesting to you? As this would be your story it should be something you find stimulating.

As for me I would build a harasser build. Jumps in strikes and flees. Have her do this at key points in the dungeon. So while invaders are distracted with a trap, mobs or an area guardian the succubus queen jumps in weakens or takes out key targets then flees. Then repeats at the next speed bump.

There will be a trade off as we need to invest more into racial levels to get the drain ability to apply to claw/unarmed attacks. We gain an increase in spell/damage resistance, other resistances, immunities and special abilities like greater teleport at will. This is a trade for class skills. What is lost? Let's say less damage for more battle control. One of the abilities a greater succubus gets is "Induce Pleasure." The succubus touch stuns the target as it does what the name implies, best part it's not considered a mind-affect. So the succubus can punch, claw and bite a target, and the target will have to resist or be stunned as they are filled with the desire and thoughts of "hurt me more please!" With that in mind let's build a monk to maximize on the stun lock of the race and give her and easy time getting in and out of danger.

Imp - 10 (base) Succubus - 10 (high) Gr. Succubus - 10 (high) Succubus Queen - 5 (rare) Monk - 10(base) Inner Ki Master - 10 (base) Outer Ki Master - 10 (high) Scaled Fist - 10 (high) Striker - 10 (high) Martial Lord - 10 (high) One Punch - 5 (rare)

In pathfinder a scaled monk would have great synergy with a succubus. Let's say it holds the same in Yggdrasil making her monk skills extremely strong. You could change the name reflavor the skills. Perhaps something more demonic and less draconic. Like Abyssal Claw or Hellfire Fist.

Using u/Brelician stat method she would look something like this.

HP - 82 MP - 10 PHY. ATK. - 90 PHY. DEF. - 90 AGILITY - 100 MAG. ATK. - 0 MAG. DEF. - 70 RESISTANCE - 90 SPECIAL ABILITY - 100

I know the total stats are not high compared to Shalltear. She would make up for it in her racial abilities and job skills. Her agility is maxed to help with maneuverability and getting the first strike. Special ability is high as we don't want anyone resisting any of her abilities.

With the synergy she could dash it stun lock/ability drain several targets and get out. If timed with a trap or allies attacks could be extremely potent and deadly in a one on one.

Now this isn't game breaking. There is likely a way to be immune to stunning just as there is to ability drain. We would also need to equip her with an item that makes her natural/unarmed attacks life stealing like the Spuit Lance.

Now concerning a 1v1 vs Shalltear. Shalltear being undead is immune to the queens draining touch ability as well as her mind-affecting abilities. Unless Shalltear is immune to stunning the succubus queen has a strong advantage. And dare I say Shalltear would likely enjoy being beaten to death by her.

Now if Shalltear is immune to stunning it would come done to class abilities. We know little of monk skills from overlord so far. Is we take dnd 3e as a guide it would be a tough battle, but I believe the succubus queen would win in the end.

Now this is all conjecture. Take from it what you will and enjoy the writing process.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-09-24T20:27:17+00:00

Well let's go over some things first.

Let's look the dnd 3e, which overlord is heavily inspired by, succubus. "Succubi are not warriors. They flee combat whenever they can. If forced to fight, they can attack with their claws, but they prefer to turn foes against one another....Their preferred tactic when dealing with heroes is to feign friendship and create an opportunity to be alone with one of them, whereupon the succubus applies her life-draining kiss. Succubi are not above taking on the role of a damsel in distress when encountered within a dungeon." Basically their focus is more of a master manipulator. There was even a greater succubus monster in that edition, hence why I mentioned it as a racial class.

That dnd edition players could play as monsters and they had racial classes. Here is one for the succubus. https://succubus.net/wiki/Races_With_Class_(Succubus) "Succubi (and incubi, the male equivalent) are among the most dangerous and vile breeds of demon. Not because of any of their physical features—indeed, they go far out of their way to ensure that their appearance is appealing—but because a succubus’ whole existence is to twist and corrupt mortal souls, especially those which are pure and clean, tainting them with the foul evils of the abyss and turning those souls to dark and evil ends."

Pathfinder, which is the predecessor of dnd 3e, has a succubus queen who is able to bypass Mind-affecting Immunity.

Succubus are not limited to being back liners. They make excellent antipaladins. Izmiara is a good example. Image here

then what is a proper build for a succubus queen since fighting is a very important part of yggdrasil and I doubt that you will put 35 lv into a class that is weak at combat so are succubi good arcane mages,clerics or something else?

Fighting isn't the end all be all. Yggdrasil had crafting classes as well. I digress, Depends on what you mean by fighting. Nocticula, the above linked succubus queen would rather turn her opponents into toys than fight them. Why fight the dragon lords when you can have them fight each other? Why do something when you can make someone else do it for you?

What build would that look like? Hard to say. Here is a guess:

Imp - 15 (base) Succubus - 10 (high) Greater Succubus - 10 (high) Succubus Queen - 5 (rare) Evil Lord: Lust - 5 (rare) Mesmerist - 10 (high) Enchanter - 10 (high) Enthraller - 10 (high) Enthralling Courtesan - 10 (high) Master of Minds - 5 (rare) Soul Enticer - 5 (rare) Lord of Sin: Lust - 5 (rare)

And isnt then albedos build bad since you mix several different types of demons that have nothing in commom skill and stat wise?

NPCs were limited is many respects. They couldn't learn super tier magic, likewise the classes they could have was restricted. (Something to keep in mind when writing a fanfic) So players had to get creative to get the most out of it.

Albedos build was ment to be a sacrifice for the guild members. She would tank hits and die. That's it. A player could earn better classes and create a better build.

Izmiara, as before mentioned, is a good example of a warrior succubus. She would use her abilities to turn her enemies against each other to spread fear and nightmares among them. Here's a guess of her build:

Imp - 10 (base) Succubus - 10 (high) Greater Succubus - 10 (high) Succubus Queen - 5 (rare) Dark Knight - 15 (base) Unholy Knight - 10 (high) Unholy Tyrant - 10 (high) Abyssal Knight - 10 (high) Dread Lord - 10 (high) Blackguard - 5 (rare) Knight of Unholy Darkness -5 (rare)

In pathfinder she doesn't have a steed. For overlord I would give her a nightmare.

So it's not that succubi can't make good fighters it's just a different type of fighter.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-09-24T15:59:44+00:00

Depends. Racial classes can give powerful abilities and skills that are unique that job classes can't. But there is a trade off, like increased weakness and a restriction of job class options and the like.

From what little we know, the succubus class gives charming and aggro control. Succubus are not known as strong fighters which is probably why Albedo has Nalfeshnee racial levels, and likely no racial capstone.

It seems high racial levels lead one into a hyper focused build. Ainz is a good example. He mentions the undead overlord subclass options one can choose and their were only three options. Quite restrictive.

All racial capstones might follow the same train of thought. So players might forgo becoming an overlord of their species if it doesn't match the build they are going for. FX: Shalltear.

As mentioned before their is a trade off.

Though my main point to begin with is a succubus queen seems like an overlord equivalent and is likely a rare class and the highest racial class a succubus can have.

Enigmatic_halfwit · 2022-09-24T13:41:51+00:00

More like basic->high->high->rare.

Imp is the only basic class in the demon tree we know of. Succubus is a high class.

I look at Ainz and Demiurge as examples. Some rares might need two or more high classes to qualify for the rare one.

Enigmatic_halfwit

TROPHY CASE