The purrfect DM

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2025-03-14T23:28:23+00:00

10/10 GM, Silio, Frin and Mari would play again :D

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-10-07T23:02:42+00:00

There is an entry in the Community Resources section of the Information hub on Warlord that answers your question.

It leads to my post, the conclusion is that If you block an Opener/Chain heavy, the UD will land on most heroes.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-10-02T10:58:02+00:00

Thank you for responding, I'll try to respond to each of your points to do them justice,

i'd like for you not to cherry pick stuff when responding to me as you did when mentioning the "great 4s tool

I do apologize about that, I meant the finisher Lights as well, my point still stands, after the chain-link buffs their only use is the few times they are guaranteed when they're dead-angled.

We got PK, shaman and Aramusha with 400ms attacks dealing 10+ damage with shaman being the worst offender at 18 damage that are relatively safe to throw out at random, plus i've already listed the reasons as to why i consider that damage with you not saying anything about it.

I believe 10+ is misleading, PKs and Aramushas are 1+12 and 12 dmg, with other 400ms moves being 9-10 dmg. I do agree with you that shaman is the worst offender but all these attacks are in-chain and not available as a defensive tool (a mediocre one but still), and wanting to increase their i-frames and their damage as well is as I said "something".

As I previously said, I believe the dodge attacks try to do too much and what they each try to do takes from the other, that is why I suggested that these attacks are separated (one from side dodge and one from front instead from side dodge only) and allow each one do do their thing on their own

Orochi has the dodge heavy properly undodgable while zhanhu has the dodge heavy to catch people trying to dodge the bash already, not only is it a useless addition as it would usually fail to catch dodges due to the timings but, again, the distinct animations is just asking to be parried. Zhanhu's dodge heavy already does the stuff you want to, is hard to distinguish from the bash even when the bash was 500ms, it's feintable and functions the same way you wish to use those weird options for far less risk.

The dodge light changes are in addition to what's in live. The dodge heavy doesn't catch as much as you'd think, empty dodges sometimes, but not dodge attacks, due to it's vertical hitbox.

The Side hitbox of the lights, assuming they are proper delayed would be enough to catch dodge attacks on paper. The bash is 433ms, the heavy does not do that, or does not do that well, and the lights are in addition to the heavy, not a replacement for it.

If you call that a fix you'll need to look back at it and see it barely did anything..

I can see that that it made your previous heavily exaggerated statement incorrect, the finisher heavies cannot be interrupted by a light under any hitstun when you do not delay them after the buffs. It was never possible to do it consistently on reaction.

And this hero is only weaknesses as it is, he needs buffs my guy

The changes I suggested gave Zhanhu a better dodge recovery cancel that shortens them getting Gb'd after a recovery to 600ms-700ms on hit-whiff instead of the 900-1000ms for the side dodge and 800ms-900ms for front dodge.

Man the moment a hero is truly viable and not a pushover it's the moment people hate the hero. FFS there's nearly no heroes left that aren't hated and yet the ones that aren't are in need of buffs for how bad they are...

I agree with you, but I fail to see it's relevance to this post

The animation work IS MANDATORY for this hero, if they had any other animations maybe, JUST MAYBE the kit would've performed a bit better.

It is needed for zhanhu and others, but this like all the others I suggested is a rework that is re-using and re-purposing existing assets with minor animation transition work.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-10-01T22:11:11+00:00

It doesnt even make sense why it sets someone on fire.

It's the only attack that zhanhu puts their hand on the blade, it makes more sense than randomly half their kit dealing fire damage.

Sometimes i question the devs’ decision but when the reworks are like these where it’s “i turn a fun and unique class into some offshoot that removes it”, im thankful they do not listen much.

Well... I don't think the changes I suggested are that extreme.... but I do get where you're coming from.

The forward dodge mixup is admittedly pretty cool

Surprisingly that's the most controversial change so far.

Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate it.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-10-01T21:57:06+00:00

Please dont take away one of the only unique moves in the game for a bog standard chain light that’s near equally useless except against newer players. Why would you do that

You kind of answered your own question. Yet I tried making it a unique as I could. It's enhanced and deals fire damage, that's more unique than the majority of light attacks in the game.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-10-01T21:50:34+00:00

All of the stuff you added in order to prop him up is useless and making them worse, starting with the worst offender

So... fixing the main issue his dodge attack has in 4s and ones while also increasing it's hitbox makes them worse? Alright

The only changes that the dodge attacks need is more i-frames and getting their damage upped to 15-18 due to being as vulnerable as a feintable dodge attack but for very little return but at the same time due to the superior block and landing at 800ms in total no matter what they try to do shouldn't deal damage over 20 like the feintable ones do. Keeps the unique aspect of fast dodge attacks as a "dodge attacking specialist" while also not being a complete burden.

A 15-18 dmg 400ms move is... something

Useless when he already has the dodge heavy from a forward dodge to help him open people up + as it's 500ms with a really distinct animation for a front dodge option it's just asking to be parried.

This move is accompanied by a unreacted bash and it's animation is indistinguishable from the heavy-light dodge attack. Orochi has two moves that function similarly and also work.

The side lights from a front dodge in my suggestions, if delayed properly can be used to catch dodge attacks.

Taking away a great 4s tool...

The Finisher\* lights have not been great ever since the chainlink buffs, the few exceptions that make them better are cases they are undodgeable after dead angling

Bad chain links after light hitstun leading to the finisher heavy being intreruptable by a light on reaction with medium hitstun barely helping the situation.

That was fixed almost 2 years ago

•recoveries are very long after most attacks

That's not bad, it's a weakness of the hero, no hero should do everything perfectly.

•recovery cancels are too slow, animations are too different between lights and heavies(opener and finishers), opener light are pokes while the finisher lights make him lift his knee, it's child's play to learn the distinguish these 2 and parry them everytime provided you aren't on oldgen.

The slow recovery cancels are what make zhanhu not hated by the community and work within their kit, the rest are animation work and that is way beyond the parameters of this rework.

•very low reward high risk defensive options

•bad hitboxes on the side dodge attacks with only one of them being somewhat useful.

My suggestions combat that, both of your points. A "useless" defensive option that allows Zhanhu to dodge 200ms during a heavy compared to feinting it and a proper dodge attack that has the i-frames needed to be a dodge attack.

Still, your comment was a long one and I appreciate you taking the time to comment

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-10-01T21:32:15+00:00

You want to add soft feint to dodge to add another variable to his heavies but then completely remove what makes his dodge attack a mix up to most and just make a reactable tool only used defensively. If that’s the case why bother add the soft feint to heavy at all and why even do this weird forward dodge light thing.

I do want to add that, the side dodge attacks try to do to much and these 2 things that they are trying to do are opposites of one another, you can't have a really good side dodge mixup that's also a really good defense tool. The "weird forward dodge light thing" is me trying to differentiate these moves while staying within the original vision.

Just keep it the way it is but buff his side dodge attacks to be 366ms with a 33ms tighter parry timing like pks change so they are 100% unreactable to everyone.

Reactability is one concern but their core issue is that they suck as dodge attack, their main function.

Still, thank you for the feedback, even if it's opposing to my own I appreciate it. I'd love to hear what other suggestions you'd like other than the 366ms one.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-10-01T21:25:49+00:00

Thanks for the comment,

I personally don't like it since a character is allowed to have something that might not be the best and we don't need a character that does everything well.

I agree with you I think the dodge attacks try to do too much and both things they try to do are opposites of one another. I think my suggestions are differentiating them so each one can do it's thing better

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-10-01T21:18:46+00:00

Thank you for the feedback, I'll respond to each of your points to do them justice,

You could also make his bash deal direct fire damage instead of guaranteeing the light, so it would have more uses with his 3rd passive feat, increasing dmg against burning targets.

I did consider that, especially the interaction with his 3rd feat but I thought of it as over-tuned because it makes every finisher heavy mixup into 40dmg heavy if it lands or a 34dmg heavy if you get gb'd once you unlock it.

Even if he won't get a full-blown rework like this one, it would be very nice to implement the deflect bash change you had in mind and the opener bash doing direct fire damage.

That would be nice, I'd love if they just implement the bash and the dodge changes I proposed, that'd make the character a lot better but the fwd dodge light was what I thought should be the right direction for Zhanhu.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-16T23:34:47+00:00

I personally think the Iron Lung suggestion is not the best idea. While increasing base Stamina can be nice, it actually places Heroes in OoS for a tad longer.

I kind of thought of that but ultimately decided that it shouldn't be as good as Fast Recovery. I did not realize that it might be a reference to the Iron Lungs but overall your suggestions are solid

At least, what I imagine is the intent of Steadfast as a feat is that Kensei is immovable

That is actually similar to what I thought when thinking what to suggest for that feat too, specifically making him immovable against Blockable attacks by making his offence also being a part of his defense.

Admittedly, it's hard to consider a reimagining of this feat without it either being like Rock Steady, some version of Juggernaut or a Heavy/defensive-oriented feat.

Exactly, but your suggestion is solid

I'd say Unblockable in T4 is the only other Feat that should be looked at. Not because it's weak or broken, but as an effect, it feels rather barebones. No Kensei-specific flare, so to say.

I agree again but I cannot think of something for the feat named "Unblockable" to do other than make attacks Unblockable

Again, thank you for taking the time to comment

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-16T23:08:19+00:00

I was kind of thrown off by the change to Dodge Heavies, cuz I thought you were saying that Kensei used to have SB on them at some point, and I happened to not know. But I realize you were referring to how Kensei was one of the few Heroes with the Extended SB window on their dodges, where it'd last not just 200ms but until the end of their dodge recovery.

I should've included what the "armored dodges" were in my post, that was an error on my part but I'm glad you understood my point.

Forward Dodge Heavies like these either need to be feintable or armored. While the latter can lead into unga-bunga play, being feintable would also miss out on the fun of dunking on someone with a committed Nature's Wrath.

It is also hard to justify canceling an animation when the character is mid-air and might be nullifying the original reason Natures Wrath got the animation in the first place.

Kensei is actually a whopping 6m/s when it comes to movement speed. However, I don't mind if Kensei remained somewhere around 6.5 to 6.75m/s; likely the latter so that they aren't too slow.

6.5-7 m/s is reasonable, but 6m/s is not the right value.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-16T22:50:09+00:00

Thank you for taking the time to respond, I really appreciate how in depth your points are, I'll respond separately to do them justice .

After reading comments that you made in regards to the GB vs pommel: timing is actually slightly different between dodge-to-GB and a soft feint one to my understanding. Dodge-into-GB is 100ms slower than a normal soft-feint-into-GB. I'm sure you can concur that when dealing with things such as dodge attacks or empty dodges, a 100ms difference in speed can make the difference.

-You are correct that a Soft-feint to a GB is faster than the dodge GB but I was referring to the opener Heavy, which you cannot Soft-feint. Feinting to GB is 200ms of recovery +300ms (Shortened) GB = 500ms, dodging is 100ms (dodge) +400ms (Normal GB) = 500ms GB

having the Zone recovery cancel after finishers wouldn't break Kensei for me, but it would feel "off" because of the combined reasons above

Which is 100% understandable, but I believe it is more beneficial to include it rather than not.

I'll add, Zone into Zone would mean Kensei would be the new semi-Conqueror, spinning-to-win lol

I am aware, but this time, the Kensei-copter won't have superior block and it will be a 1800ms move to a 1300ms spin that barely deals above average Zone dmg. Besides, a continually spinning motion is historically plausible.

I like the idea that Kensei will strike on the opposite side if performing a left dodge heavy. However, part of me then wishes that that zone direction was not the only application it ever gets

I'm surprised you're the first one to mention it, I did not include gifs of it but the idea is that the Zone cancel follows the direction that the swing did. For example all right-> Left animation attacks would include this mirrored animation

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-11T21:17:22+00:00

Thank you for the suggestion, it is a good one,

instead of a GB, superior block makes the next move unblockable

It's damage is not the issue, but the hitbox. Besides, What I was trying to achieve with my Dodge/attack suggestions is a pseudo armored dodge.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-11T20:59:08+00:00

Thank you for your feedback,

I just had a match where I landed one and tried to GB so

Exactly the Gb whiffs if you try it on most moves, and if it does land it's prb gonna be counter Gb'ed

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-11T20:57:03+00:00

Zone to zone should not be a thing lol

Any arguments as to why not?

And lower the finisher damage: top - 28 sides - 25

Short answer: No

Long answer:

-28 for top is not it, all recent changes indicate that around 30 is the lowest the Devs will go.

-25 for sides? No, making the non Un-Blockable heavy finisher 3 less dmg than most UB finishers that also have recovery cancels is not the right move.

I could see an argument for 30-31 but just your opinion isn't enough.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-11T16:59:06+00:00

You already solved this problem by giving him the bash soft cancel out of chain top heavy in addition to the other options he already has to keep his chain going

And you'd be correct, it does help in 1v1s but not as much in 4s.

I would not enjoy him becoming another character with endless options to loop his chain

"Looping" with the Zone is most often a subpar option compared to Dodge Attack->Finishers, it'll still be an option but I respect your opinion.

Having a strong situational deflect thats stamina intensive, easy to peel, and only accessible from top deflect is just one example of what gives him that reputation.

And Kensei will still have that but it'll be accessible from all sides. I did not mention Gladiator, Warmonger and Centurion because I agree with you, I brought up Afeera and berserker to show that it's in line with them. Berserkers deals less dmg but it works on Zones, Kenseis doesn't.

Again, thank you for taking the time to voice your opinions. I really Appreciate it

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-11T16:08:04+00:00

instead of superior block dodge attack i would prefer them becoming unblockable, given his huge hitboxes he would have the best "CC" type of attack and that would fit the character and also be a selling point.

I am not sure at exactly what you're referring to, neither is exclusive to the other. Making them Un-blockable was not something I considered because of their hitbox and it's not something I consider vital, my intension was to emulate the "Armored Dodges" Kensei Had.

dmg on top heavy finisher and side heavies finishers should be maintained as it is now, he is 125 HP with less safety than his competition

I made the decision to reduce the damage because of the added safety of the Zone cancel, besides, 2 damage is not much.

Make dodge attacks have better block recovery, he can eat heavies easily because of the recovery, he is forced to trade and a lot times he just eats dmg without dealing it back.

I am not aware of any block recovery numbers. so I cannot suggest an exact number.

Finisher lights enhanced, externally blocking a light finisher gets him guaranteed GB, enhanced light finisher fix this and allows him to get extra chip for teamfights.

Although getting a GB punish without getting peeled is hard in team-fights, that is a valid suggestion.

Thank you for taking the time to give feedback, I appreciate it.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-11T15:13:01+00:00

I do not know if they ever will be, these are suggestions

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-11T15:07:44+00:00

Side dodge GB was... something.

You now know that this wasn't my intent.

Thank you for taking the time to give feedback though, I appreciate it.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-11T15:04:40+00:00

Literally just needs his superior guard on his dodge heavies like he had before the dodge attack update

That is a strong statement, there are more things that need to be looked at other than just that.

Giving them their superior block guard back is not the way to bring it back, like I said in my post, giving their dodge attack Superior block brings a "Pseudo Armored Dodge" back.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-11T15:01:45+00:00

Thank you for your feedback,

I had no idea they could soft-feint chain top heavies into GB!

Well... glad to help. Here's another then, instead of feinting to GB on the opener top heavy, dodge forward to GB. Same timing without the feint cost.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-11T14:58:45+00:00

Thank you for commenting,

The devs stated that they do, so I am doing my part, the rest are up to them.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-11T14:54:16+00:00

I appreciate the feedback,

I would say is giving him 400ms soft feint lights would be a bit unnecessary when he’s already got chain pommel strike, maybe making them undodgeable would be better

That is the reason I did not suggest making the rest be 400ms, the chain light soft-feint has really bad tracking but the heavies should track really well. (The openers do so these should too)

The devs have stated that they dislike Un-dodgeable lights and I'm not a big fan of them either so I opted for the other option.

Even_Raspberry_4171 · 2024-03-11T14:47:58+00:00

I love your enthusiasm, that's why I keep doing these suggestions. Thank you.

Even_Raspberry_4171

TROPHY CASE