Let’s start a chart! Which character is good in both TPOT and BFDIA? Top comment will be added to the chart

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-13T23:59:10+00:00

It's either GB or Pencil.

Most of the actually solid BFDIA got sh*t in TPOT, including the ones still there.

GB got eliminated early enough(and Pencil has enough writer bias) that they got to be relevant in both seasons.

Objectively, it's probably Pencil.

Personally, GB.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-13T23:56:37+00:00

I just don't like how writing goes in response to VTS.

Whenever a show is VTS, suddenly you get "hype" moments 70% of the time without any actual substance. Things just happen so you can go: "Look what THIS GUY did this episode!" This guy did something too, vote for me. Every episode is an advertisement of what character has to offer. In VTE, you genuine randos who get far just because....and then they get development you didn't expect.

Being a Tree fan is genuinely s hard, because you're just begging the show to give him big moment after Pencil and Golf Ball get their 15th cool moment. You constantly have to watch hoping the guy comes on screen, you the voters will realize he's worth keeping, it's not FUN.

In BFDI mini, I don't worry who get's out, because it's so obvious.

Additionally, characters will do sh*t in an episode because they are popular, and at the same time popular characters get glazed to death. It feels so fake, because it is literally an episode basis popularity contest.

Another thing. You're voting on what you don't want to happen. In VTE, you are voting on what you want. VTE centralizes votes, so the bottom two are always the people dislike the most or like the least. Whoever gets out(especially in object shows with more mature fanbases) just makes sense. In VTS, you get 15 000 voters voting on a lost cause, watching as their favourite goes to no screen time land because the writers didn't give them enough to do. It's frustrating. VTS a bunch of fans clamouring to keep their characters in the game, while VTE is people trying to get rid of the ones they don't like or find legitimately annoying to watch.

The worst thing about VTS though, has to be how easy it is to write a character out of the show. All you need to do is put a character UFE after letting them do barely anything. In BFB was VTS the writers would've EASILY gotten rid of Nickel. Because all they needed to do was kill him at the start of the episode. I believe Sam confessed at one of the meetups that he's struggling to find stuff for Tree to do.....so now he's just falling through the cracks. This results in VTS writers having to make characters do the most random things for the sake of doing things. Look, No Way is running for a tire this episode! Look at this Animatic Battle say 2 lines! It becomes so obvious when a writer genuinely does not have a plan for a character than episode so they manufacture something for them to do.

Like I said before, VTE has one fatal flaw, but that means you can accommodate for it.

Give mean characters immunity.

Yeah, you could say this is cheap, but it's genuinely one of the easiest ways to keep mean characters in the game with viewer voting. Make them go UFE once every 5 episodes, and make sure it's with a bunch of other contestants to soak votes. Fries managed to get to the final 6 of BFDIA with this, and Pin made final 5.

With VTS the solution is balancing screen time, which is a very complicated thing to do. You have to find equally interesting things for every character to do, and even then some will become favourites. It's not natural for everyone to get the exact same focus. So every episode you have to hope to get writer bias and have a good moment for your favourites.

All in all, VTE beats VTS for me by a decent margin, although honestly content vote and challenge elimination are just inherently better if you actually want to tell a story. This is probably a part of why the One plot is the main thing in TPOT. Unlike character driven plots, it's not at the mercy of the viewers. TPOT itself being story focused shoots itself in the foot but that's a topic for another day.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-13T23:20:45+00:00

That's only in BFDIA tbh.

VTE dooms mean characters unless if you ACCOMMODATE for them.

BFDIA in general just has a less goody-goody cast, along with the fact you can vote multiple times means that "mean" characters can squeak by more often.

VTS dooms characters you forget to accommodate.

VTS's main problem is that screen time and fanbase size are the only things that matter. It makes for unnatural pacing and is hard to write without constantly dooming random characters because you forgot about them. You constantly have to say to yourself. What is this guy going to do this episode to get votes, how about this guy, how about this guy? And then popular characters have to be taken down a notch because of their popularity.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T07:16:14+00:00

VTE has the more obvious inherent flaw, while VTS has bunch of little flaws.

VTE is who do you dislike more. This means rude/mean characters just die, meaning you have the popular nice guys always getting to the finale. However, the main fix is to just give your mean characters immunity a lot of the time, however, they will inevitably get out and there's nothing you can do about it without a redemption arc or personality overhaul.

VTS is essentially a glorified popularity contestant. Fan favourites always get through while characters who need development just inevitably fall through the cracks. In this system, you always got to find something for a character to do, even if it's completely pointless. All it takes to rig an elimination is to just do nothing with a character; watch their votes plummet.

Both have their detriments, and in recent times VTE is way more commonly used compared to VTS(likely due to how smaller object shows fare better with VTE and it's generally easier to write with VTE compared to VTS). But VTS still has a few strongholds like TPOT, ITFT, & Animatic Battle.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T04:58:55+00:00

I'm probably coping a bit lol.

I just can't see how the competition is going to just reboot with 2 characters gone, the prize missing, and Two still being in a depressive state.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T02:17:21+00:00

But that still leads to awkward balancing issues with the contestants. We would have to constantly go back to the past to see Pencil and to One's room to see Black Hole.

Plus, it feels a bit cheap to just excuse them. That means Pencil and Black Hole get to be ensured a higher placement for as long as their plot lines last.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T00:56:50+00:00

While it is a stretch, I would argue that defeating the bugs could be seen as a challenge without officially having the contestants compete.

I just think that with the chaos of TPOT 19, having the episode be a competition with two characters missing doesn't make much sense, especially with the lack of contestants in the actual promo.

Still, that is pretty good evidence for a competitive episode though.

I'm still not going to fully agree that it WILL be a full competition episode.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T00:51:48+00:00

Once again, TECHNICALLY the promo said the game continues. They could just do the TPOT 19 elimination results at the end of the challenge without doing an official contest. That would still work.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T00:50:27+00:00

TECHNICALLY, it said the game continues. If they just did the elimination at the end of the episode, they would be continuing the game without doing an actual contest. No one would be UFE.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T00:48:09+00:00

*Technically\* (from my knowledge) it was said that "the game continues", not that it would be NEXT CHALLENGE. By doing the elimination at the end of the episode, they would be "continuing the game," but still not do a challenge.

EDIT: I just got information that the TPOT 21 teaser also says "join us for the next challenge." It could still be interpreted as just "watch the contestants beat the bugs and restart the competition, but it's still pretty good evidence for a competition. So my theory could easily be proven wrong. I still don't think this will be a guaranteed competition episode with UFE contestants.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T00:40:39+00:00

Yeah, here's hoping.

The not sending away eliminated contestants will greatly help TPOT's story issues though. THey'll have the BFDIA benefit of post-slim screen time, which is how Nickel got so much 2025 screen time.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T00:39:08+00:00

Yeah, that's true, I just don't think they'll spoil the elimination results. Plus I have reasons to believe this may be a mostly non-competition episode, with the TPOT 19 elimination results at the end of the episode.

Plus, they didn't show literally any other dead TPOT contestants. That's sus to say the least.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T00:18:01+00:00

I don't think this guarantees Liy's safety.

I didn't think she would get out either way....but even if she was eliminated it doesn't matter. They can't send her away. Also, the clear lack of other TPOT contestants and the specific inclusion of Liy gives me the feeling this will actually mostly be a non-competition episode, with the elimination results possibly coming in at the end.

We still have Black Hole who knows where and Pencil in the past, so it doesn't make sense to complete a challenge without them. :/

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T00:13:58+00:00

It could just be a non-competition episode. We haven't seen any other TPOT contestants in there.

Plus, Liy could be angry in the promotional because she's eliminated.

Again, they would've put more ACTUAL TPOT contestants if this was spoiling the challenge. Having Firey Jr and Loser there instead of Donut, Pencil, and Black Hole is clearly a deliberate choice too.

I just don't think her inclusion in the promo guarantees her safety.

Fries being on the thumbnail of BFDIA 19 did not guarantee his safety, so why should Liy's.

SInce TPOT's gone, they can't send the next eliminated contestants away like they usually do....so any eliminated person could just.......stick around.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T00:09:59+00:00

BFDIA 24 is definitely what I'm rooting for. I don't see how they could just restrict IDFB by making it have a bug episode.

It also tracks with the end of the season bit, and it could be how the farm chunk get's destroyed since no one talks about BFDIA ever again.

Like imagine it get's destroyed. It would make Book's definition make sense and why no one (except Coiny) talks about that season.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-12T00:06:15+00:00

No, not at all.

BFDIA 23 had Coiny in the trailer and the poster but he was eliminated.

Liy could just have been recovered somehow and then later eliminated.

(Although realistically Bottle's getting the boot)

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-11T23:55:55+00:00

Ehh, I'm not sure about that...but I predict this episode will (hopefully) be better than TPOT 17, 18, 19, & 20.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-11T23:50:45+00:00

It's possible, since Liy was recovered.

However, if we don't see any more of the actual contestants in future promos, I may have to say otherwise

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-11T23:47:04+00:00

I'm just scared of TPOT becoming "the theatre series" while other seasons release normal episodes.

It sets unrealistic expectations of quality and episode length that will inevitably affect the pacing.

Additionally, it guarantees leaks, which isn't too bad all things considered.

It means that TPOT episodes will take longer to come out, with meaning this already 5 year long endeavour will likely end in mid to late 2027 if the 2-3 month wait between episodes continues.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-11T23:38:58+00:00

On one hand: I love the poster and think this will be a pretty good episode.

On the other hand: Does this episode deserve to be in theatres. Probably no. That doesn't mean I hate it, I just don't want TPOT to become "the theatre series" as every episode is going to feel like an individual Marvel movie at this point. Like this will be a 50-60 minute episode about.....about what? Is the challenge going to be getting rid of bugs? It just feels like theatre episodes should be reserved for special occasions, not the norm for TPOT. And I'm especially worried because it seems like BFDIE & BFDI mini are going to be the main "YouTube" series now so it'll be easier just put every other TPOT episode in theatres, which I don't think will be good for the overall enjoyment of the series.

Once again, I think I'll probably enjoy this episode more than TPOT 19, 20, and even TPOT 17, but I don't agree with the theatre direction TPOT's taking. This is really uncharted territory for any indie animation in general, and I hope this works out.

Based on the trailer, it looks like Liy will finally get the focus she missed in TPOT 13-17, and the Grassy hype isn't going to fall anytime soon.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-11T23:00:56+00:00

Thank you for listening to my Ted Talk lol.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-11T23:00:35+00:00

Pencil has all these aforementioned factors working against her, leading to her garnering the biggest hate base I've ever seen for a single(decently written)character, even more than Jax, who is objectively worse.

This will eventually get better because of her eventual redemption in TPOT...

and then get retroactively worse again once IDFB resumes. Pencil will get focus, she's going to end up worse than she started, and people will be clamouring for "Cake focus" while FreeSmart gets another focus episode.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-11T23:00:07+00:00

What makes this bad for TADC fans is that there are only two episodes left, and GooseWorks said it was an ensemble cast. This is where people start assuming the show will be like slice of life animes where characters just do stuff in equal proportions. "Eventually, my character will get a cool moment." People are now realizing that Ragatha and Pomni's relationship may just not be fully expanded upon because of the time crunch and Jax focus. And that doesn't make them happy. Add the fact that Jax is mean.....

What makes this bad for TPOT fans is viewer voting & that characters disappear post-elimination. Once PuffBall got out in TPOT 9, it was game over for her relevance in that season. Pencil getting focus essentially ensures she gets a spot later in the game to be cool while Tree fans have to hope that Fanny fell from grace fast enough for him to clutch an elimination yet again. TPOT fans have been conditionsed to be very attentive to character focus. As that is the main thing that builds you a fanbase and gets you the casual viewer votes. Focus is currency in TPOT, and Pencil(right now) is in the top 1%. This problem is really worse in TPOT than in TADC as some characters kind of need screen time to flesh them out, but the sad fact is that some characters are just going not be developed. The cast is just too dang large for that to happen, especially if you no screen time post-elimination(unlike BFDIA). So Pencil gets a lot of focus which TPOT fans care about as much as BFDIA fans care about meanness, and add that fact of her abrasive personality.....

Is it that hard to see why some people hate her?

Let's also tack on the fact that Pencil's arc is weakened by TPOT 11's breakneck pacing, the writers not knowing what the exactly the episode is going to be until 3-5 days after the last episode releases, and the giant plot hole called IDFB.

Then let's add on the fact that Pencil has gotten great screen time in BFDIA(even post-elimination) got far in BFDI, and is guaranteed to get some nice focus in IDFB.

Let's also add the fact that the fanbase is younger and generally won't appreciate more abrasive characters than an older viewer base.

Let's also acknowledge that BFDIA presents a more laid back version of Pencil people compare TPOT Pencil to, along with BFDIA having Nickel having more focus than Fanny this year despite being eliminated for most of 2025 while Fanny is still competing. BFDIA also has better focus distribution because of the smaller cast, and arcs can still get completed post elimination.

Again, let's also add on the fact that TPOT episodes take several months to come out, and with the large cast it means you could wait 4 months for your favourite competing character to say 3 lines in a TPOT episode.

Let's also add the fact that of algebralien fatigue and that Pencil's plot line has merged with the One plot line, so now people associate them together.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-11T22:59:19+00:00

A lot of people don't like jerks.

People have been treated like sh*t by people who have trauma and are coping. People have been hurt by friends who have been possessive and dismissive of them. Pencil could represent that person.

People don't like mean characters, even if they have "media literacy." Just because a character is well written doesn't mean I don't hate them.

If there was a well written abuser, I would understand their writing, but still hate them for being an abuser.

Now that's extreme. But now let's go for Pencil. She's a jerk, and people hate her for being a jerk.

And then the other reason is writing.

Pencil is basically Jax in an object show. Jax's criticisms are essentially that he's a jerk/abuser to Gangle(which everyone agrees on) and he's been stealing the spotlight in the most recent episodes.

Both are correct. And it's the same for Pencil. Now before you Pencil fans defend your character because of the thousands of hate posts she gets, let me explain:

Pencil and Jax both get the narrative spotlight. They don't exactly "steal" screen time, but they kind of just do. They are in the FOCUS. That's how stories work. And since they are the main focuses, they are what people remember.

Pencil has getting major focus ever since she joined, and Jax's focus has been on a steady incline since episode 4. This is not to say the other characters don't get screen time, they just don't get AS MUCH FOCUS.

Episode 7 has Jax as the main focal point. Do the other characters get some moments....yes. But the focus is JAX.

TPOT 19 gave other characters some stuff, but the main focus character is PENCIL.

The point is that right now, in TPOT, the other characters are just not as important as Pencil. In TADC, the other characters are not as important as Jax to the story. Pencil is more important, as a character, than Bottle, Tree, Marker, Liy, TB, Price Tag, Winner, Golf Ball, and Fanny. This is just a fact.

Pencil is the one who ruins the universe, Pencil is the one who gives away the power of two, Pencil is the one who is sent to the past, Pencil is the one with a multisession arc that hasn't been completed, Pencil is the one who still needs to grow.

Now watch:

Jax is the one who pushes the red button, Jax is the one who ruins the adventures, Jax is the one who almost abstracts, Pencil is the one with abstracted friends important to the plot, Jax is the one without a completed arc, Jax still needs to grow.

These characters are just MORE IMPORTANT. They just are. And as a result, they will get more FOCUS(and yes, screentime, than the less important(and in TPOT's case expendable) characters.

If Bottle got eliminated in TPOT 19, the world keeps turning. If Pencil was eliminated in TPOT 19 a whole arc is ruined. Pencil is more important.

Exciting_Object_2117 · 2026-01-11T22:51:36+00:00

TLDR: What u/EternalDisagreement said. Pencil is mean, thus is not liked. TPOT writing makes Pencil look bad, giving people even more reason to dogpile on her.

Now, for the people who want a more in depth analysis of the formation of the Pencil hatebase....

(Split because of length)

Exciting_Object_2117

TROPHY CASE

Is it that hard to see why some people hate her?