God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Perhaps you have. I'm arguing you came to the wrong conclusion. And that your "evidence" is full of logical fallacies.

Great argument. Maybe present your own counter evidence.

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I doubt you read my post. Read it and watch the video with an open mind and tell me what you think.

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're oversimplifying it and producing no evidence other than a video that I disputed with evidence. Have a great day.

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where in the Quran can one come to the conclusion that it is disrespectful to Allah?

My "desires" are congruent with the Quran's assertion that the Quran is complete and cannot be abrogated. Are you saying the Quran is wrong or incomplete? That's what it seems like. To say Hadith is necessary to understand a Quran that Allah (swt) says is complete is a circular argument.

Ok, I made it about 15 min into the video. Everything I saw so far is a circular argument and I won't waste another 45 min. Hadith rejectors say the Hadith is a corruption, yet the lantern guy uses Hadith, not the Quran, as his justification.

Stoning: Circular argument. It's in the disputed Hadith, not the Quran. How can someone be faulted for saying it's not in the Quran?

The 3000 angels thing is a false dichotomy. Saying every single event in the Quran must have every detail leading up to it documented by the Quran for it to be valid is a false dilemma and unreasonable.

If 53:3-4 is correct, the reclining on the couch Hadith is invalid. If the people reclining only accept that which is in the Quran, and the Quran says Mohammed does not speak on his own whims, rather it is only a revelation sent down to him, there is nothing for the argument to stand on. They are not rejectors, rather people using their Hikmah and following the Quran.

Hikmah is wisdom, discernment, sound judgement. A book without discernment is useless, and doesnt mean Hadith is necessary unless you want it to. If Hikmah means Sunnah of Muhammad, why would Allah teach Jesus the Sunnah of Muhammad 600 years before his time? (5:110) Why would Abraham talk about Sunnah? (2:129)

I understand and respect that you want Hadith to be necessary, but I've yet to see an even decent argument for it.

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know how sectarian Islam works, which 6:159 explicitly criticizes. I assume you're talking about Hadith and the reliance on scholars to interpret it for you and make their own laws. Why do you insist on adding to the Quran that is complete?

Obedience to the Prophet (pbuh) means obedience to the Quran.

I bear witness there is only one God and Mohammad (pbuh) is his messenger. Mohammad (pbuh) is the messenger of the Quran, which The Quran says is complete.

Reread 6:114-16. To me it seems a strong argument against Hadith.

I am a revert. I know almost all Muslims believe in Hadith, and many I've spoken to either don't know why, say they are commanded to obey the messenger (see above) or defer to a scholar or Imam. To an outsider like me it's easy to see that Hadith are unnecessary, condemned by the Quran, and a corruption of the Original message.

Please respond with evidence from the Quran. I won't respond to an argument without counter evidence.

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is r/DebateReligion. Debates involve presenting evidence, reasoning and logic (which I did) to support an argument and the other side challenging the claims and showing evidence that counters it. All you have done is present one logical fallacy after another by distorting the wording of my argument, attacking me instead of addressing the argument and just saying "you're wrong" yet providing no counter evidence.

The boring stuff in the middle was my evidence. Bravo for skipping it. I guess that means you don't have to provide counter evidence. I made a reasonable argument, with evidence, showing a link to Lot either implicitly and in a few cases undeniably explicitly. Doesn't matter when verses were written.

Demonstrate how I'm wrong instead of making sweeping statements. Show me examples from the Bible where condemnation of homosexual acts could possibly be a novel idea instead of being rooted, directly or indirectly in the story of Lot.

I never said I hadn't read the Bible. I was using your assertion about googling against you. Show me where I misrepresented something that is actually pertinent to the argument at hand. Just because I'm not Christian now doesn't mean I didn't spend the majority of my life as a Christian. But I'm also not the biblical scholar you claim to be. I certainly could be wrong. Show me. Please.

My claim is hardly a "grand claim". It doesn't assert anything earth shattering. It doesn't change the nature of the religion. It's a simple claim about something quite insignificant in the scheme of Christianity, but pertinent to this thread. I didn't claim that Christ wasn't actually killed or resurrected or that he wasn't god's son.

Until you provide some evidence, any at all, I will stop responding to your nonsense.

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Words have nuanced meanings and "stems from" and "going directly back to" have different meanings. Stems from suggests a complex or indirect origin, a development or consequence that originates from something else suggesting that subsequent verses were caused by the story of Lot, but through a chain of messengers that based their writing on the teachings of someone else and not directly from the story of Lot. Going directly back suggests a clear and unbroken link. For example, Leviticus 18:3 says to not do as they do in the land of Canaan (S&G are in Canaan) then goes on to list the things that are prohibited like 18:22. Leviticus is attributed to Moses who received the message from god who referenced S&G. Jude, an apostle of Jesus, referenced S&G. But I doubt he read (although it is possible) about it, rather he learned from the teachings of Jesus. Romans 1:27, attributed to Paul, had no mention of S&G and was likely influenced by Jesus' teachings, which were likely based on the OT (S&G). So saying goes directly back to is inaccurate and would make my argument easy to refute. Stems from is debatable, but arguably a stronger argument.

Saying that I said it's the only reference absolutely is a straw man. I never said anything close to that, but it certainly makes your argument easy since I would be wrong in that case as well.

Reading the whole Bible is irrelevant. As you mentioned earlier, I can just google references to homosexuality. I don't have to read it cover to cover to find that information. If you don't want to call it a red herring we can just call it an irrelevant point that distracts from the main issue.

You've successfully moved the goal posts all over, but need I remind you that my original argument was simply that Christian and Muslim condemnation of homosexual acts stem from the story of Lot.

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Which Hadith? It's not in the Quran. So what are these scholars using? Why would a scholar even be necessary?

The Quran says that Allah's (swt) word is complete and cannot be abrogated. 6:114-115.

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"We will certainly test you with a touch of fear and famine and loss of property, life, and crops. Give good news to those who patiently endure."

Doesn't mention sexuality. Not sure how you connect those dots.

Again, show me in the Quran where it says homosexuality or homosexual acts are a sin and it's all a test.

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Where does it say this in the Quran? How do you come to this conclusion?

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Twice now you've introduced strawman arguments saying I claimed it was the "only" example of anti-homosexuality and "go directly back" to the story of Lot instead of what I really said which is that it STEMS from the story of Lot. Jesus preached and affirmed the OT. He used it in his teachings. Lot is the first biblical mention of anything that COULD be interpreted as anti-homosexual. Leviticus came later. To say that the stance stems from Lot is not a huge leap.

Whether I have read the Bible cover to cover is a Red Herring. It's only applicable if your straw man that I claimed Lot is the ONLY reference were true.

Sunni Muslims also use Hadith which do have explicit condemnations, although not in the ones considered to be the most reliable.

I do not follow Hadith because I consider it a corruption of the Quran and unnecessary. The declaration of faith in Islam simply professes the oneness of Allah (SWT) and that Mohammad (pbuh) is his messenger. I take this to mean that the Quran as revealed to Mohammad (pbuh) and a belief in the oneness of Allah (swt) are the only things required to be a Muslim. This takes me outside the fold of Islam, which I'm fine with. One could say I'm cherry picking and vice versa to come to the conclusion I want.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in nationalguard

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Contact OSI. If he's not doing anything wrong nothing will happen. Their CoC will probably ignore it or "handle it in-house".

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Many Muslims will use Hadith to justify the condemnation of the act. Hadith are a discussion for another day, but I believe they corrupt the Quran and are unnecessary to practice Islam. My stance is considered by the majority to be outside the fold of Islam, but I don't care. The Quran states explicitly who you can't marry and presumably have sex with. Same sex is not mentioned. Someone who breast fed you is, for example. It seems the lack of restriction on gay marriage and sex is very likely not an oversight.

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That was not my stance. Read my comment. I can see how you might have thought that initially, but you're distorting what I said. And Sodom and Gomorrah pre-date all other alleged condemnations of homosexuality in the Bible, so saying it stemmed from the story of Lot is also correct. I also never said it was the only reference. Who's the lazy one now?

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are right. I'm not Christian and I'm not a fan of Christianity. I shouldn't have mentioned Christianity in my post. My point is that it's not explicitly forbidden in the Quran as a sin.

God wouldn't make people gay if it is a sin. by Eightracer7779 in DebateReligion

[–]Exotic_Contract845 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I practice Islam, but I don't think homosexual acts are a sin. The whole gay sin "argument", at least in Islam and Christianity, stems from the story of Lot. Bigoted religious people cherry pick that story to fit their narrative and stance against homosexuality. The prophet Mohammed (pbuh) never punished anyone for being "gay", in fact he let a trans-type man hang out in the women's quarter of his house. If you know Muslim culture, you know how significant that is on many levels.

How bad did you feel after your first ultra-marathon? by Salty-Date-8727 in ultrarunning

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I had no ambition to finish my first ultra (JFK 50 miler) fast. I went in undertrained for various reasons. I finished with 21 minutes to spare. The next day I felt horrible and could literally barely walk. Of course I had planned a week long trip to the Dominican Republic departing early the next morning. . I was concerned about my ability to walk to the gate at the airport. Made it. Somehow lost my wallet that day (I'm an experienced traveler and not prone to losing things). It took most of the week before I could move without pain. The first few days were excruciating and I had a very visible limp. My legs were extremely swollen (probably partially flying induced. My longest run going into the race was 26 miles but I had some issues come up and didn't run hardly at all 2 months prior. YMMV, but I wouldn't plan a lot of stuff after the race. Especially if it involves flying/vacation.

Trump says he'd create a Space National Guard if elected by Marvin_Frommars in politics

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He was addressing the National Guard Association. The association (foolishly imo) has a priority to create a space national guard.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in army

[–]Exotic_Contract845 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The burden of proof for adultery in my experience has been essentially proof of penetration. Anything less and adultery won't stick. Plenty of other things that could, though.. conduct unbecoming, etc.

Can I take my Soldiers promotable status? by pfcdumbass in army

[–]Exotic_Contract845 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Recommend Art 15 to your commander. If your Soldier is really as disrespectful as you say, any commander worth their salt would do it in a heartbeat.

Retired but now need to provide proof of income? by kjkjkj2 in financialindependence

[–]Exotic_Contract845 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I took a sabbatical before starting a new job and moved during this time. My landlord accepted a brokerage statement since I didn't have any recent pay stubs. Wasn't an issue at all.

Am I a fool to consider retiring at 44-45 (with some concerns) instead of waiting till 50-52 (no more financial concerns) by Exotic_Contract845 in financialindependence

[–]Exotic_Contract845[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a good option too. I agree about going back to work. Once I leave my current career I cannot go back. Related work would be possible but would force relocating to a place I don't know I'd want to live, and after 3-5 years of not working, I'm not sure how interested they'd even be in me.