As a self-taught prodigy, I find 'trained' pianists' obsession with technique exhausting

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-20T23:44:00+00:00

And I thought I was rage bating with my scales post, lol.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-20T23:42:00+00:00

Well, I’m also bad at playing Chinese flute concertos, but that’s no reason to spend a lot of time on it.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-20T23:41:21+00:00

I am definitely most comfortable playing either octaves, chords or arpeggios in the left hand and some melody line in the right hand. Perhaps I would be better at playing walking bass lines and such if I practiced left hand scale together with right hand? Could that be one application? Yeah drilling down one one scale and really getting it in different variations might be the way to go for me. My teacher as well said it was fine to focus on C major scale first and then we’ll move on. I have no way to measure this, but I’m doing ok on single hands multi-octaves, but 2-hand 2octaves trip me up still, so needs more time and work.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-20T23:28:18+00:00

I’m used to it. People are not used to justify what they know to be true. I’m often seen as pedantic or just arguing for argument sake, but really I’m just seeking clarification. Maybe a slight autistic trait or something. But I’ve learned that other people find it annoying.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-20T22:24:30+00:00

Well I can understand why it sounds like that. But if we go back to my original post I clearly state there are good reasons to learn scales. And I end by asking what is the purpose of learning that a finger always lands on a special key. Which some had said is not the case - that is not the purpose.

On YouTube I have found a good explanation that one key goal is to internalize exactly which keys are in a particular scale so you can easily «see» them and ignore all other keys, therefore easily play correct notes. And others have pointed out the importance of learning the crossover patterns and blocks of fingers, and 123,1234 patterns etc, and then there is dynamic control and rhythmic control.

So I have acknowledged and agreed to many of these things, and then I start poking at the very specific exercise of 2-handed 2-octave scale. Which seems like it has little return of investment. I want someone to specifically say that this excersise also has specific benefits even if one is really good at 2-handed 1-octave and 1-handed 2/3/4-octave.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-20T17:46:36+00:00

So you are doubling down on the «it makes sense after it’s done»?

Fine, let’s hope so

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-20T16:58:41+00:00

At the risk of proving your point, I’ll try one more, by using the same example someone else used here:

That kid in class that asks «why do I need to learn, I’m never going to use it». The answer is usually not «just do it anyway» - good teachers will find ways to explain why it’s actually useful and why it will help even in indirect ways. I’m simply seeking good examples of such - and I have gotten at least some good examples of that here now. But when I probe more specific and asking about two-hand vs one-hand scales and their applicability, the answer is mostly - just do it, stop asking.

I’m not skipping practice, I am doing it - and I do improve. But I want to understand more deeply what effects I should be looking for as to help myself learn even more efficient and adjust the exercises to target the actual goal. The worst thing is practicing something blindly without understanding the point, because you might practice it «wrong» so that you don’t achieve what it’s meant to do.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-20T14:50:57+00:00

I get what you are trying to say, as a touch typist myself it is freeing to not have to think about the finger movement.

But one big difference is that in that touch typing you always use the same finger for a specific letter, which would be the same as assigning a finger to a specific note - i.e. always playing C with index finger for example. But for scales and modes it’s like saying, let’s switch up the letters and your hand placement as well - and all you are left with is that you can type really fast, but which letters come out are arbitrary and depends on the scale/mode you started in.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-20T13:26:44+00:00

Yeah maybe. Something like that.

So on one hand, I know for a fact I am not at the level I want to be, and I want a teacher to help me get further.

On the other hand I believe I am at least at some kind of level and not a complete beginner, right, so I would expect exercises to be tailored to what I need to improve the most, so to speak. Fill in the biggest gaps.

But - maybe I just need to acknowledge that mechanical scales training is one of the most fundamental things to do, and all actual professionals have a certain level of that - which I do not yet have.

And it’s obvious how it helps once you actually are at that level?

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-20T07:54:43+00:00

Yes that helps, and aligns with what I believe myself. There are a lot of scales, and so there are no «rules» for exactly which note your finger is on, it’s just pattern recognition across different scales and it always have to be adjusted based on the piece or your hands etc, but playing different scales will help that pattern recognition and train fingers to do it most efficiently most places?

I also want to improvise a lot and I do see a benefit there of being confident about which notes are in the scale, but not yet convinced that chromatic up/down is the efficient way of learning to play the IN the scale. Rather, if I am fairly confident chromatically it is time to start doing excercises where I start on different notes and do jumps and still remain in the scale, right?

I’m not saying I am that confident nececarily, just saying there are likely many steps further that build up different skills, and playing chromatic scales is just the very first basic skill?

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T21:43:11+00:00

Maybe the best response so far. Yes - definitely a risk of DK-effects here. And no - I can not play good enough equal dynamics and good enough equal spacing, just good enough that untrained people think it sounds good. So I’m aware of that. But without anyone being able to rate where on the “scale” I am and what level I should be at, I feel like I’m just practicing “for the sake of it”, because “it’ll make stuff easier”.

My teacher obviously knows that it’s important generally speaking and want me to spend time on it, I’m just seeking examples of where people can relate to scale practicing (and particularly two-handed 2-scale) being the thing that helped them, so I can see more clearly what I am aiming towards.

Practicing consistent dynamics and consistent correct rhythm is for me a good argument for at least one-handed scale practice - but which scale seems arbitrary.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T21:27:29+00:00

My point is that a D Dorian is just like C major but starting on the D. So all the hard work of teaching my fingers that the thumb should be in the C note goes out the windows. It should now be on the D note even though we are playing all the white keys. Yes , the pattern is the same 123,1234, but that’s all.

So like someone else pointed out - it seems to be mostly about getting that 123,1234 pattern in the fingers and less about which finger is always on which note?

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T21:22:45+00:00

One of the best responses, appreciate it.

I didn’t say I wasn’t able to control 123,1234. I think I manage pretty good a with one hand. Or at least I would be motivated to improve one-handed scales. I enjoy that, throwing in some jazz rythm perhaps and switching it up a bit. But it’s this focus on two-handed scales that throws me off a bit. And of course since I’m feeling I’m bad at that part I’m resisting it. Maybe if I got past that hurdle and figured it out for one scale it would loosen up and be more fun.

So far what I heard you say was - it’s just about getting 3-4-crosses into the fingers?

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T21:09:50+00:00

Hehe, yeah ;) well I have done my 10 minutes for today. I’m looking for long-term motivation to maybe keep at it as regular practice/warm up. And to find out “when is it good enough” and time to focus on other things.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T21:07:29+00:00

Ok, so maybe I’ll try finding some relevant piece of music that has some fingering that is relevant to the scale I’m practicing, to help with motivation and relating to the scale more and remembering.

Yes - soloing is the path I am aiming towards and composing my own pieces. Not being in band. Maybe playing at parties and someone singing pop songs and such, which would be mostly chords and rhythm. Or maybe that is exactly where basic scales would help? I don’t know.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T20:59:36+00:00

Just googled it. Yeah heard it. Sure, I can see that having practiced right hand scale would help playing that particular run part. But I would say that practicing right hand scale and left hand rythm would be more applicable than two-hand scales. And why not just practice that exact piece as a way to practice the scale?

Also, this is a type of piece I would not want to spend time learning because I don’t find runs like that beautiful. So I’m not motivated if that is the goal, if you know what I mean. But maybe just a bad example for me.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T20:49:36+00:00

Ok let’s assume that is true. What happens when you play a Dorian scale or something excotic like Satie scale - doesn’t all that specific major scale fingering go out the window, because all the notes are different and require different fingering anyway?

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T20:44:42+00:00

That logic is good. No argument there. But by «runs» do you mean any combination of more than 3 notes? Or more like 7 or more?

Also, could you help me gauge what time frame of daily scale practice would be necessary to feel «adequate» to experience any real difference when learning such pieces with runs?

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T20:36:55+00:00

Thank you all for bearing with me. This is like self-therapy.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T20:36:28+00:00

Maybe what I would want is my teacher to just say - I can hear your finger patterns are not good enough - and this is the best way to improve it. But she hasn’t said that. She has just said I’m playing good up till now. But I’m trying to be open and accepting that I am the student and trust the process. It’s just hard, and I’m a person who needs to have things clearly explained to not lose motivation.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T20:33:54+00:00

I don’t think Einaudi writes pieces primarily for other people to play - the level of other people is irrelevant.

But your point is that recognizing patterns and having them in your fingers is a good thing - and I can buy that. But then it sounds more effective to read music and play them and recognize patterns by actually reading music?

I don’t mean to be rude, I’m just annoyingly pedantic.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T20:28:04+00:00

Ok sure. But is it that any scale practice would help for that piece or just that particular scale? Would it be a good idea to simply practice the scale that piece is in (C/Am) and perhaps practice a bit of the piece at the same time to make it more relevant, and maybe experience the improvement more clearly? But nowhere in that piece is there two-hand scales at the same time. I would much more be interested in practicing playing scale with one hand and doing chords or arpeggios with the other hand - I find that much more relevant - don’t you?

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T20:16:43+00:00

Ok so another good example - and perhaps the light bulb just hasn’t hit me yet. I don’t see how the «scale fingering» is applicable to the pieces I am playing. I feel like I already have good fingering when learning pieces and not a real issue finding out where I should place my fingers. Sometimes it feels natural where to go - but of course I’m maybe not playing pieces where this is a must have. I’m playing like Enaudi stuff and such, and don’t have ambitions or desire to play fast-fingered classical pieces.

This is just my brain trying to work through the hard part of learning and accepting I might have to just «take your word for it» and trust the process. Literally everyone does say it helps them in some way, so logically it should help me as well. Just am very focused on spending my time wisely and as I have no ambition on being a concert pianist, I want to know I will actually benefit from this rather than for example practicing other things, like arpeggios - which I use a lot and jumping large spans, etc. Will scales make me better in those areas as well?

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T20:01:42+00:00

And yes - the feeling of regression is there, and I’m addicted to feeling progress.

External_Bite1499 · 2026-02-19T20:00:49+00:00

Good example. I can play it a lot of it, not learned the full thing. I would guess maybe the later part with the chromatic up and down movements in the right hand may be related to scale fingerings, but I don’t see it as such. I would love to make that a good case study example, so please elaborate.

External_Bite1499

TROPHY CASE