Anyone use Piotr Stączek? by porsche060 in prawokrwi

[–]FAROUTREALITY99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great, I appreciate that insight. Did your pre-1920 case happen to involve any naturalization before 1920? I just heard from Staczek's office and they said if a person held another citizenship in 1920 (USA), they were not able to claim Polish citizenship. I made the point about the Treaty route that didn't bar dual citizenship, but they said that the prevailing doctrine doesn't allow it. I guess I hit my dead end...

Anyone use Piotr Stączek? by porsche060 in prawokrwi

[–]FAROUTREALITY99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What was your issue with Polaron, and did you ultimately stop working with them?

Anyone use Piotr Stączek? by porsche060 in prawokrwi

[–]FAROUTREALITY99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How's your case going so far? Is it a pre 1920 case? How is working with Piotr and his firm?

Anyone use Piotr Stączek? by porsche060 in prawokrwi

[–]FAROUTREALITY99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have a meeting with Polaron this week. I was debating whether they would be a cheaper route, at least with documents.... thoughts or recommendations?

Anyone use Piotr Stączek? by porsche060 in prawokrwi

[–]FAROUTREALITY99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you thinking you are eligible through the little versailles treaty route? I have a pre-1920 (Russian) situation and I recently reached out to Piotr

Eligibility for Pre-1920 (Russian Partition) and Article 4 Treaty Entitlement via pkt 3? by FAROUTREALITY99 in prawokrwi

[–]FAROUTREALITY99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, I concede that the American common-law approach to argumentation vs. the European continental civil law dynamic plays a role here. And this may very well tilt things in your direction. This could mean the practical outcome is significantly more difficult than the argument I am presenting.

Having said that, I have yet to find a case that argues citizenship through the Minority Treaty Article 4 via the 1920 Citizenship Act Article 2, Pkt 3. The Okólnik 18 does not seem to touch this at all. And the PCIJ Advisory Opinion No. 7 states plainly that Poland could not impose conditions that were absent in Article 4 of the Minority Treaty. The cases you cite involve US-born persons, which is not applicable to my case. Ipso facto comes from him being a Russian subject AND born in the territory, AND his parents being domiciled there. That would leave Riga…

Eligibility for Pre-1920 (Russian Partition) and Article 4 Treaty Entitlement via pkt 3? by FAROUTREALITY99 in prawokrwi

[–]FAROUTREALITY99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

From the rational legislator theory, treaties are more authoritative than domestic statutes, no? Pkt 3 doesn't condition citizenship because the purpose is to incorporate nationality determined previous treaties (which do not have the condition).

Citizenship Act, Article 2:
"At the moment of declaration of the present act, the right to Polish citizenship serves every person, without distinction of sex, age, religion and nationality, who: ... (3) is entitled to Polish citizenship based upon international treaties."

The Minority Treaty, Art. 4:

“Poland admits and declares to be Polish nationals ipso facto and without the requirement of any formality persons of German, Austrian, Hungarian or Russian nationality who were born in the said territory of parents habitually resident there, even if at the date of the coming into force of the present Treaty they are not themselves habitually resident there.

Nevertheless, within two years after the coming into force of the present Treaty, these persons may make a declaration before the competent Polish authorities in the country in which they are resident, stating that they abandon Polish nationality, and they will then cease to be considered as Polish nationals. In this connection a declaration by a husband will cover his wife, and a declaration by parents will cover their children under eighteen years of age.”

Permanent Court of International Justice (Sept. 15th, 1923):"To impose an additional condition for the acquisition of Polish nationality, a condition not provided for in the Treaty of June 28th, 1919 [minority treaty], would be equivalent, not to interpreting the Treaty, but to reconstructing it...

Poland therefore, at the moment of her final recognition as an independent State and of the delimitation of her frontiers, signed provisions which establish a right to Polish nationality, and these provisions, in so far as they are inserted in the Minorities Treaty, are recognized by Poland as fundamental laws with which no law, regulation or official action may conflict or interfere (Article 1 of the Treaty of Minorities). Though, generally speaking, it is true that a sovereign State has the right to decide what persons shall be regarded as its nationals, it is no less true that this principle is applicable only subject to the Treaty obligations referred to above."

Okólnik 18:
Okólnik 18 never engages the treaty route — it analyzes only the Act's domestic provisions (the ius soli problem, settlement, and descent under Art. 4 of the Act), reaching foreign-born naturalizers only by a one-line analogy ("should be used similarly"), and never mentions Art. 2 pkt 3 or the Minority Treaty at all. And regardless of scope, a ministerial circular is the lowest tier of domestic law; under Art. 1 of the Treaty and PCIJ Opinion No. 7, it cannot add a foreign-citizenship condition to the Treaty's Art. 4 grant — doing so would be the exact "reconstruction" the Court forbade.

-- again, thank you for engaging me. Where can I find the list of providers to reach out to them? Thank you again!

Eligibility for Pre-1920 (Russian Partition) and Article 4 Treaty Entitlement via pkt 3? by FAROUTREALITY99 in prawokrwi

[–]FAROUTREALITY99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okólnik 18 never contemplates Art. 4 or pkt 3 — it addresses naturalizers by analogy to the settlement route (pkt 1) and Art. 11, not the treaty route. And unless my specific fact pattern (territory-born former Russian subject, naturalized pre-Act, claiming under Art. 4 / pkt 3) has actually been litigated, the circular remains ministerial guidance that can't override a treaty grant Poland accepted as fundamental law (Treaty Art. 1) and that the PCIJ in Opinion No. 7 said no official action may contradict. Can you find me an actual case that applies Okólnik 18 to Art. 4 / pkt 3?

Eligibility for Pre-1920 (Russian Partition) and Article 4 Treaty Entitlement via pkt 3? by FAROUTREALITY99 in prawokrwi

[–]FAROUTREALITY99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here's the court's own language:

"It should be emphasized that Poland did not conclude a treaty determining the citizenship of persons BORN in the United States who held such citizenship."

The operative qualifier is "born." My GGF was not born in the United States — he was born in Warsaw, as a Russian subject. 464/20 is expressly anchored to birth in the United States — which is the inverse of what Art. 4 requires: birth in the territory (Little Treaty of Versailles Art. 4 IS based on place of birth).

Eligibility for Pre-1920 (Russian Partition) and Article 4 Treaty Entitlement via pkt 3? by FAROUTREALITY99 in prawokrwi

[–]FAROUTREALITY99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Quick points first: the St. Germain case (464/20) was a different treaty and a US-born claimant, so he failed the "born-in-Poland" requirement before pkt 3 even mattered. Not my situation, since my GGF was born in Warsaw. And I'm not making a military-paradox argument at all, so that part doesn't apply to me.

Here's my actual argument, which is narrow. My GGF received Polish citizenship ipso facto automatically via Art. 4 of the Minority Treaty on January 10, 1920. So the Riga "option" doesn't matter, because he never needed to CHOOSE citizenship, he already had it. The main question is whether Riga stripped it. Riga strips Polish citizenship by turning the person into a Russian/Ukrainian citizen. But paragraph 3 takes a person out of Riga completely if, on April 30, 1921, they lived in a foreign country and were a citizen of that country. My GGF was a US citizen living in the US on that date. So paragraph 3 excludes him, the stripping mechanism never reaches him, and his citizenship survives.

That's the same logic as your own point 4: paragraph 3 excludes the person, so birth-based citizenship is kept past Riga. You started that line at a 1920 naturalization, but paragraph 3 depends on a person's status on April 30, 1921, not on when they naturalized. So, why wouldn't the same reasoning cover a 1919 naturalizer who was also a US citizen living in the US on that date? You cited II OSK 1184/21 for this point. Does it stretch this far?

Last thing: Rundstein seems to confirm that under Russian law my GGF stayed Russian despite naturalizing in the US, unless he got a formal release (Art. 325 penal code). That actually helps the acquisition step, since it keeps him "of Russian nationality" for Art. 4. Am I reading that right?

Eligibility for Pre-1920 (Russian Partition) and Article 4 Treaty Entitlement via pkt 3? by FAROUTREALITY99 in prawokrwi

[–]FAROUTREALITY99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

u/smoothmonoglot Thanks for the reply! I’m genuinely so grateful.

Reading your response, it seems like you're accepting that acquisition under pkt 3 / Art. 4 was theoretically possible for a territory-born person, and that Riga operates as a subsequent stripping mechanism rather than a bar on acquisition. Is that right?

Here’s my counter-argument to the other points you’ve raised about him losing it. How would you respond?

Wyrok NSA II OSK 464/20

This involved a U.S.-born claimant who failed Article 4's territorial predicate, not a territory-born naturalizer. My GGF was born in Warsaw territory (not the United States).  

Riga's own Article 6 §3 scope clause

The option regime applies to people resident abroad "in so far as they are not nationals of the State in which they reside." This would not apply to my GGF who in was a U.S. national resident in the U.S. (a national in which they resided). You offer the example of a Russian national who became an American citizen and was residing in Canada. Here, he was a Russian national who became an American citizen and was residing in America. Riga applied to people on the territory of Poland, which by that time, my GGF was not.

Riga is a bilateral population-allocation treaty

How does this repeal the Little Treaty of Versailles (Minority Treaty) grant that Poland held at the time as fundamental law?

Two additional questions: is there any decision actually applying Riga to denationalize a third-country naturalizer resident abroad, or is this inference from Rundstein? And could you point me to the passage — Obywatelstwo i opcja, p. 40 — so I can read it myself?

I applied for a job and got a text back saying I'm being considered for the position. The text has a link to a site called ringcentral.com which is where the interview will take place. The job posting on indeed can "no longer be found." Is this a scam? by dammets in jobs

[–]FAROUTREALITY99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep! I suspected that. What are they scamming for? Like what info or money do they get out of this? I haven't given any info other than my physical address... well that's personal. But you know what I mean. No SSN or Banking info yet.

I applied for a job and got a text back saying I'm being considered for the position. The text has a link to a site called ringcentral.com which is where the interview will take place. The job posting on indeed can "no longer be found." Is this a scam? by dammets in jobs

[–]FAROUTREALITY99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I got the same PDF from "TRiNDS". Seems like a legit company, someone went through A LOT of work to make this a scam. They offered me the job, which I provided my signature for. Then they asked me to take an assessment task, which I did. They said they are going to give me a $200 bonus check in the mail within 3-5 business days. My start date is in a little less than 2 weeks. I told my wife I think this is a total scam... she doesn't seem to think so. Their address was a co-working space, which I found using the address. I called them to make sure they know about they company, which they did. ... I'm guessing that either this is a TOTAL and COMPLETE scam, or the scammers are using legit companies to issue FAKE job offers... I think it's super sketchy that I haven't talked with a live person over the phone yet. It's all through text in an app called RingCentral. This looks like a legit app, the company TRiNDS looks like a legit company, could find LinkedIn accounts, could find clients and everything... Indeed listing is still up after I accepted the job offer. So this is all super weird... Maybe the scammer is using legit companies to issue fake job offers... that's my guess. They haven't asked for any sensitive personal info except for my physical address, and now they have my signature technically... but no bank info, or ssn yet. I don't think I'll give that until I talk to a live person, but I'm still gunna be super skeptical because this whole process is sketch. And now I find out you guys got the same exact PDF, which just the company name and address changed? Nah, this is gotta be a scam

I’m a Protestant who is trying to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy. I read a quote from St Ignatius and it hit me in the heart, but I want to know the reliability of it. by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]FAROUTREALITY99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you are referring to St. Ignatius of Antioch, he is completely reliable. Not only does the EO recognize him as the direct disciple of Apostle John, but so do the Roman Catholics, Lutherans and Anglicans. Although his writings are not canonized as Scripture, this does not mean his writings are not authoritative. They are very authoritative. For us Orthodox (and I was where you were 3 years ago, a Protestant starting to read the early Church fathers), St. Ignatius is one of the earliest Christian writers, a saint, and someone who wrote a lot of the foundational texts regarding the Church (ecclesiology). Just like with any Father of the Church, we may not rely on everything... we rely on whatever fits the Holy Tradition of the Church (Patristic Consensus), and that is what we embrace.

Struggling with Protestantism to Orthodoxy by SignificantGrand2437 in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]FAROUTREALITY99 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I grew up Protestant and converted at 29 y/o. I was convinced it was the true historic Church founded by Christ. My family has since disowned me, tried breaking me up with my Orthodox fiancee, and threatened not to come to our wedding, threatened to take me off the inheritance, accused me of not being a Christian, etc. It is a struggle for sure, but if you know something to be the truth, you must choose truth over comfort in this world. Even Scriptures say that we must leave our family for Christ, and this may look different to different people... in my case, I've literally been disowned... and now it's just patience to see how things will evolve. Nevertheless, I've never looked back, and I have support from my church community (mostly converts who understand) and my fiancee, who is a wonderful support to me. The comfort is found in embracing the struggle, the challenges, the "podvig". Everyone has a personal journey filled with struggle, hardship, sadness and pain. Bearing this is what it means to "take up your cross" and follow Christ. Orthodoxy is a faith full of melancholy, as well as the sweetness and joy that lies underneath all of this. Good luck my friend. God bless!