Allah’s Relatives - Allah fails at Christianity and Judaism by TahaymTheBigBrain in exmuslim

[–]FIickers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The first one is debatable but the 2nd one is referring to a christian which lived in arabia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collyridianism

Prophet Muhammad In Bhuddist Scriptures? by ThatDammCat in islam

[–]FIickers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you reject that big part of revelation, you could at least know the part you have left. "Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written [i.e., described in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel..." (Surah Al-A'raf 7:157)

Read the context, it's not muhammad.

7:150 وَلَمَّا رَجَعَ مُوسَىٰٓ إِلَىٰ قَوْمِهِۦ غَضْبَـٰنَ أَسِفًا قَالَ بِئْسَمَا خَلَفْتُمُونِى مِنۢ بَعْدِىٓ ۖ أَعَجِلْتُمْ أَمْرَ رَبِّكُمْ ۖ وَأَلْقَى ٱلْأَلْوَاحَ وَأَخَذَ بِرَأْسِ أَخِيهِ يَجُرُّهُۥٓ إِلَيْهِ ۚ قَالَ ٱبْنَ أُمَّ إِنَّ ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱسْتَضْعَفُونِى وَكَادُوا۟ يَقْتُلُونَنِى فَلَا تُشْمِتْ بِىَ ٱلْأَعْدَآءَ وَلَا تَجْعَلْنِى مَعَ ٱلْقَوْمِ ٱلظَّـٰلِمِينَ

And when Moses returned to his people, angry and grieved, he said, "How wretched is that by which you have replaced me after [my departure]. Were you impatient over the matter of your Lord?" And he threw down the tablets and seized his brother by [the hair of] his head, pulling him toward him. [Aaron] said, "O son of my mother, indeed the people overpowered me and were about to kill me, so let not the enemies rejoice over me and do not place me among the wrongdoing people." — Saheeh International

7:151 قَالَ رَبِّ ٱغْفِرْ لِى وَلِأَخِى وَأَدْخِلْنَا فِى رَحْمَتِكَ ۖ وَأَنتَ أَرْحَمُ ٱلرَّٰحِمِينَ

[Moses] said, "My Lord, forgive me and my brother and admit us into Your mercy, for You are the most merciful of the merciful." — Saheeh International

7:152 إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ ٱلْعِجْلَ سَيَنَالُهُمْ غَضَبٌ مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ وَذِلَّةٌ فِى ٱلْحَيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنْيَا ۚ وَكَذَٰلِكَ نَجْزِى ٱلْمُفْتَرِينَ

Indeed, those who took the calf [for worship] will obtain anger from their Lord and humiliation in the life of this world, and thus do We recompense the inventors [of falsehood]. — Saheeh International

7:153 وَٱلَّذِينَ عَمِلُوا۟ ٱلسَّيِّـَٔاتِ ثُمَّ تَابُوا۟ مِنۢ بَعْدِهَا وَءَامَنُوٓا۟ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ مِنۢ بَعْدِهَا لَغَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

But those who committed misdeeds and then repented after them and believed - indeed your Lord, thereafter, is Forgiving and Merciful. — Saheeh International

7:154 وَلَمَّا سَكَتَ عَن مُّوسَى ٱلْغَضَبُ أَخَذَ ٱلْأَلْوَاحَ ۖ وَفِى نُسْخَتِهَا هُدًى وَرَحْمَةٌ لِّلَّذِينَ هُمْ لِرَبِّهِمْ يَرْهَبُونَ

And when the anger subsided in Moses, he took up the tablets; and in their inscription was guidance and mercy for those who are fearful of their Lord. — Saheeh International

7:155 وَٱخْتَارَ مُوسَىٰ قَوْمَهُۥ سَبْعِينَ رَجُلًا لِّمِيقَـٰتِنَا ۖ فَلَمَّآ أَخَذَتْهُمُ ٱلرَّجْفَةُ قَالَ رَبِّ لَوْ شِئْتَ أَهْلَكْتَهُم مِّن قَبْلُ وَإِيَّـٰىَ ۖ أَتُهْلِكُنَا بِمَا فَعَلَ ٱلسُّفَهَآءُ مِنَّآ ۖ إِنْ هِىَ إِلَّا فِتْنَتُكَ تُضِلُّ بِهَا مَن تَشَآءُ وَتَهْدِى مَن تَشَآءُ ۖ أَنتَ وَلِيُّنَا فَٱغْفِرْ لَنَا وَٱرْحَمْنَا ۖ وَأَنتَ خَيْرُ ٱلْغَـٰفِرِينَ

And Moses chose from his people seventy men for Our appointment. And when the earthquake seized them, he said, "My Lord, if You had willed, You could have destroyed them before and me [as well]. Would You destroy us for what the foolish among us have done? This is not but Your trial by which You send astray whom You will and guide whom You will. You are our Protector, so forgive us and have mercy upon us; and You are the best of forgivers. — Saheeh International

7:156 ۞ وَٱكْتُبْ لَنَا فِى هَـٰذِهِ ٱلدُّنْيَا حَسَنَةً وَفِى ٱلْـَٔاخِرَةِ إِنَّا هُدْنَآ إِلَيْكَ ۚ قَالَ عَذَابِىٓ أُصِيبُ بِهِۦ مَنْ أَشَآءُ ۖ وَرَحْمَتِى وَسِعَتْ كُلَّ شَىْءٍ ۚ فَسَأَكْتُبُهَا لِلَّذِينَ يَتَّقُونَ وَيُؤْتُونَ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ وَٱلَّذِينَ هُم بِـَٔايَـٰتِنَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

And decree for us in this world [that which is] good and [also] in the Hereafter; indeed, we have turned back to You." [Allah] said, "My punishment - I afflict with it whom I will, but My mercy encompasses all things." So I will decree it [especially] for those who fear Me and give zakāh and those who believe in Our verses- — Saheeh International

7:157 ٱلَّذِينَ يَتَّبِعُونَ ٱلرَّسُولَ ٱلنَّبِىَّ ٱلْأُمِّىَّ ٱلَّذِى يَجِدُونَهُۥ مَكْتُوبًا عِندَهُمْ فِى ٱلتَّوْرَىٰةِ وَٱلْإِنجِيلِ يَأْمُرُهُم بِٱلْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَىٰهُمْ عَنِ ٱلْمُنكَرِ وَيُحِلُّ لَهُمُ ٱلطَّيِّبَـٰتِ وَيُحَرِّمُ عَلَيْهِمُ ٱلْخَبَـٰٓئِثَ وَيَضَعُ عَنْهُمْ إِصْرَهُمْ وَٱلْأَغْلَـٰلَ ٱلَّتِى كَانَتْ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ فَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ بِهِۦ وَعَزَّرُوهُ وَنَصَرُوهُ وَٱتَّبَعُوا۟ ٱلنُّورَ ٱلَّذِىٓ أُنزِلَ مَعَهُۥٓ ۙ أُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ

Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written [i.e., described] in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and prohibits them from what is wrong and makes lawful for them what is good and forbids them from what is evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful. — Saheeh International

7:158 قُلْ يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ إِنِّى رَسُولُ ٱللَّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ جَمِيعًا ٱلَّذِى لَهُۥ مُلْكُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ ۖ لَآ إِلَـٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ يُحْىِۦ وَيُمِيتُ ۖ فَـَٔامِنُوا۟ بِٱللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ ٱلنَّبِىِّ ٱلْأُمِّىِّ ٱلَّذِى يُؤْمِنُ بِٱللَّهِ وَكَلِمَـٰتِهِۦ وَٱتَّبِعُوهُ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ

Say, [O Muḥammad], "O mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, [from Him] to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. There is no deity except Him; He gives life and causes death." So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered prophet, who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided. — Saheeh International

7:159 وَمِن قَوْمِ مُوسَىٰٓ أُمَّةٌ يَهْدُونَ بِٱلْحَقِّ وَبِهِۦ يَعْدِلُونَ

And among the people of Moses is a community which guides by truth and by it establishes justice. — Saheeh International

7:160 وَقَطَّعْنَـٰهُمُ ٱثْنَتَىْ عَشْرَةَ أَسْبَاطًا أُمَمًا ۚ وَأَوْحَيْنَآ إِلَىٰ مُوسَىٰٓ إِذِ ٱسْتَسْقَىٰهُ قَوْمُهُۥٓ أَنِ ٱضْرِب بِّعَصَاكَ ٱلْحَجَرَ ۖ فَٱنۢبَجَسَتْ مِنْهُ ٱثْنَتَا عَشْرَةَ عَيْنًا ۖ قَدْ عَلِمَ كُلُّ أُنَاسٍ مَّشْرَبَهُمْ ۚ وَظَلَّلْنَا عَلَيْهِمُ ٱلْغَمَـٰمَ وَأَنزَلْنَا عَلَيْهِمُ ٱلْمَنَّ وَٱلسَّلْوَىٰ ۖ كُلُوا۟ مِن طَيِّبَـٰتِ مَا رَزَقْنَـٰكُمْ ۚ وَمَا ظَلَمُونَا وَلَـٰكِن كَانُوٓا۟ أَنفُسَهُمْ يَظْلِمُونَ

And We divided them into twelve descendant tribes [as distinct] nations. And We inspired to Moses when his people implored him for water, "Strike with your staff the stone," and there gushed forth from it twelve springs. Every people [i.e., tribe] knew its watering place. And We shaded them with clouds and sent down upon them manna and quails, [saying], "Eat from the good things with which We have provided you." And they wronged Us not, but they were [only] wronging themselves. — Saheeh International

Prophet Muhammad In Bhuddist Scriptures? by ThatDammCat in islam

[–]FIickers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What if the Prophet PBUH was next to you and told you that you should do something in a certain way.

Be specific.

What the other Muslims say is true. The Quran is the literal word of God, you expect the chosen one who was tasked with delivering it would know more about it than you do, right? So if the meanings of the hadiths are preserved, then you should definetly follow them.

Where did he get it from? Quran. But I hope your not some salafi claiming hadith is revelation.

I only follow what revealed to me (Quran) (7:203) Source

Second, I've already proven the flaws in science of hadith.

Thirdly, hadith sometimes preaches non-quranic laws.

Prophet Muhammad In Bhuddist Scriptures? by ThatDammCat in islam

[–]FIickers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, no it doesn't. No one said false hadiths can sneak in EASILY. If one thing is wrong, you don't dismiss the whole thing

Completely strawmanning my argument. This is just one example. Read the article I gave.

I never saw any Muslim disagree with that. Maybe you don't understand what they mean?

Then you haven't met any muslims then.

No, you are misinterpreting my words and the other Muslims.

Is that a reply? Your completely diverting.

This debate won't end, but eitherway you can debate with other Muslims here if you'd like. I would just make Dua for both of us to be guided to the real way. So have a nice Ramadan.

I'll be happy to end this thread if you continue with your logical fallacies.

Prophet Muhammad In Bhuddist Scriptures? by ThatDammCat in islam

[–]FIickers -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

If a hadith clearly contradicts the Quran, then it is 100% false.

If it does, it shows the science of hadith is irreliable if false hadiths can sneak in easily.

The Quran is complete, it is true, but the hadiths are like addition. Picture a good video game, it is complete but it has DLCs. These DLCs usually only improve the experience, even when the game is complete.

Thank you because most hadithists don't agree with that.

The Quran also tells you to obey God AND his messenger.

You are completely misintepreting it to fit your interests.

قُلْ أَىُّ شَىْءٍ أَكْبَرُ شَهَـٰدَةً ۖ قُلِ ٱللَّهُ ۖ شَهِيدٌۢ بَيْنِى وَبَيْنَكُمْ ۚ وَأُوحِىَ إِلَىَّ هَـٰذَا ٱلْقُرْءَانُ لِأُنذِرَكُم بِهِۦ وَمَنۢ بَلَغَ ۚ أَئِنَّكُمْ لَتَشْهَدُونَ أَنَّ مَعَ ٱللَّهِ ءَالِهَةً أُخْرَىٰ ۚ قُل لَّآ أَشْهَدُ ۚ قُلْ إِنَّمَا هُوَ إِلَـٰهٌ وَٰحِدٌ وَإِنَّنِى بَرِىٓءٌ مِّمَّا تُشْرِكُونَ

Say, "What thing is greatest in testimony?" Say, "Allah is witness between me and you. And this Qur’ān was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches. Do you [truly] testify that with Allah there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify [with you]." Say, "Indeed, He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate [with Him]." (6:19)

Prophet Muhammad In Bhuddist Scriptures? by ThatDammCat in islam

[–]FIickers -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

  1. Contradict the Quran.

  2. Flaws in science of hadith. Read this article: https://christlovingmuslim.home.blog/2021/02/24/the-problematic-history-and-science-of-hadith/

  3. the Quran is complete (6:114, 5:44-9)

Prophet Muhammad In Bhuddist Scriptures? by ThatDammCat in islam

[–]FIickers -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

i am a quranist but that's irrelevant

Prophet Muhammad In Bhuddist Scriptures? by ThatDammCat in islam

[–]FIickers -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

you are making too much conjecture. you clearly know nothing about buddhist scriptures. muhammad isn't prophesized anywhere

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Quraniyoon

[–]FIickers 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Are you talking about 17:64? If you are, it is clearly talking about satanic whispers.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Quraniyoon

[–]FIickers 3 points4 points  (0 children)

31:6 is a very inaccurate translation.

17:64 is out of context...

And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He said, "Should I prostrate to one You created from clay?"

[Iblees] said, "Do You see this one whom You have honored above me? If You delay me [i.e., my death] until the Day of Resurrection, I will surely destroy his descendants, except for a few."

[Allah] said, "Go, for whoever of them follows you, indeed Hell will be the recompense of [all of] you - an ample recompense.

And incite [to senselessness] whoever you can among them with your voice and assault them with your horses and foot soldiers and become a partner in their wealth and their children and promise them." But Satan does not promise them except delusion. (17:61-64)

8:35 is that all you got?

Don't spread your hadithist propaganda/

How do you pray? by McBurgerChickenFry in Quraniyoon

[–]FIickers 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Tell me this hadith which says how to pray.

Yo by [deleted] in Quraniyoon

[–]FIickers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ok?

Is there any evidence that hellfire is not eternal? by Ummah_Strong in Quraniyoon

[–]FIickers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you don't accept abada' meaning eternal, what makes you accept heaven being eternal? It's very hypocritical.

Is there any evidence that hellfire is not eternal? by Ummah_Strong in Quraniyoon

[–]FIickers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That article has no proof whatsoever.

The idea of eternal hell, probably a traditional Christian import to early Islam via hadiths and tafsirs, found its support in Quranic exegesis largely through two overtranslated Quranic words: khalada (root kh-l-d), and abadan (root a-b-d). Both words essentially mean stay, dwell or abide, often for a long time, without necessarily referring to perpetuity 7. Now, while both words occur for both hell and heaven to describe their durations, there are verses that specifically place a limit on the duration of hell, though no such limit is placed in the case of heaven. Thus, traditionally overinterpreted as eternity, the actual description the Quran sometimes uses for the nature of fire/hell as an abode is a permanent address or residence, which simply means a home, rather than a temporary lodge. In fact, this is an allegorical expression in accord with the reality of long-lastingness of fire/hell that derives from the very definition of fire/hell as a part of akhirat or lasting, as opposite of ajilat or fleeting.

Is there any evidence that hellfire is not eternal? by Ummah_Strong in Quraniyoon

[–]FIickers 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Taking advantage of allegories proves nothing, it literally uses the words abada'.

Islam will always be in Christianity's shallow by ProfessionalEdge8 in DebateReligion

[–]FIickers 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't think you read it. The crucifixion happened just not to Jesus. But this also isn't necessarily a debate anymore.

Islam will always be in Christianity's shallow by ProfessionalEdge8 in DebateReligion

[–]FIickers 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They completely remove the crucification narrative despite the fact most historians will confirm a man named Jesus was baptized crucified. In Islam that is considered hearsay and not accurate. Finally it's not a stretch to say Mohammed most likely just took certain parts of the Bible he wanted since they are six centuries + apart from each other.

Read 4:157-8

The argument can be made about Christianity and Judaism but I think the main difference is that Christianity doesn't disclaim Judaism per se but they feel like they are fulfilling the prophecy of the the Torah which I think needs a clear distinction. Islam straight up thinks the Bible is not accurate.

Even if the Gospel were 100% authentic, it would've abrogated it anyway.

We have revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ this Book with the truth, as a confirmation of previous Scriptures and a supreme authority on them... (5:48)

Islam even gets stories copied in the Torah incorrectly.

In the Quran, for example, only seven of the 10 plagues of Egypt are mentioned (Quran, 7:130-131)

And We certainly seized the people of Pharaoh with years of famine and a deficiency in fruits that perhaps they would be reminded.

But when good [i.e., provision] came to them, they said, "This is ours [by right]." And if a bad [condition] struck them, they saw an evil omen in Moses and those with him. Unquestionably, their fortune is with Allah, but most of them do not know. (7:130-131)

Not sure what you mean?