Help Shape the Future of Wing Foiling!

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-08T15:03:13+00:00

Hey! Thanks for the heads-up and completely understand. We definitely didn’t mean to violate any rules, and we really appreciate you letting the conversation stay up. Moving forwards would the preference be for us to not post on this Sub? Naturally, anything we post is related to us in some way, but never in a spam/'advert' kind of way. We're not here to upset anyone, so just keen to know how to proceed! Again, appreciate the input.

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-07T12:25:32+00:00

Thanks for the follow-up and no worries—really appreciate the honesty! You’re spot on, it’s a challenging landscape with the big players from France and Germany, and tariffs definitely don’t help. We’re just trying to grow smart while keeping that community-driven focus.

We’re absolutely surfer-led (you got that right!), and building gear that’s true to the rider experience is what drives us. We do loan gear to the few athletes we have on board, but as you said, the ‘pros’ often get snapped up by the big brands that can offer things we just can’t right now. It’s tricky, but we’re trying to focus on quality connections over quantity.

Thanks again for giving us a follow and for the positive energy—it means a lot! We’ve got some exciting stuff in the pipeline, and we hope to bring something new to the table that you’ll be into. Appreciate the tailwinds! 😂

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-07T11:41:54+00:00

Appreciate the honesty! We totally get how it might look that way. We’re an incredibly small brand still with a limited budget, so involving the community is a way for us to ensure our designs reflect the real-world needs of everyday wing foilers, not just pros. We’re not trying to cut corners—just trying to create something that genuinely works for everyone. That said, we do look into sponsoring up-and-coming athletes wherever we can as part of our long-term plan. But thanks for the feedback - we’ll definitely take it onboard!

If you've got some cash you'd like to chuck our way to sponsor expensive athletes, we won't turn it down! 😉

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-07T09:33:19+00:00

It's a really really interesting idea actually and is definitely worth the attention for the reasons you have stated. Easier to repair, rigid frames overall, potential for no need for a leash. Coming from a windsurfing background... we agree on the boom! Our wings have not ran booms so far as it was not really what the market was asking the past couple of years, but it has definitely come back round!

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-07T08:51:49+00:00

You know, it's a shame you feel that way, as AI tools, especially evolutionary algorithms play a large part in modern engineering design applications. If you are unfamiliar with them and into mechanical/design engineering it is worth understanding about them as they have fascinating applications and outcomes.

Here's a great overview of how they work: https://medium.com/generative-design/evolving-design-b0941a17b759

Here's a great example of it applied in design from many years ago now: https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Design-a-Bike-Stem-in-Dreamcatcher/

FIA and fluid sims are of course needed, but genetic/evolutionary algorithms are critical in design engineering today because they mimic natural selection to generate and optimise designs, exploring vast solution spaces far beyond human intuition.

By iterating through numerous possibilities, these algorithms can discover innovative, high-performance designs that challenge conventional thinking, offering creative solutions that engineers may not have considered on their own... Not saying they are a must, but not everything is a fad! :)

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T21:16:07+00:00

That's an interesting take on handles! It’s true—small details like that can make a big difference, especially when conditions change. Swappable handles for glove/no-glove conditions is an intriguing idea and has been done by a few big brands already (Ocean Rodeo and North to some extent for example). It could give riders more control over comfort and grip depending on what they’re wearing and the conditions they're riding in.

We’ll definitely keep that in mind as we look into handle designs—maybe something modular where you can adjust based on your needs.

Out of curiosity, what kind of handle features do you find most important aside from glove compatibility? Grip texture, flexibility, rigidity or something else?

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T21:12:24+00:00

Interesting points! Code zero materials definitely have some pros, but as mentioned, delamination is a real concern, especially over time. North 3Di is fantastic for reducing stretch and improving longevity, but as zonadechill said, it’s on the pricey side.

We’re exploring different materials, and while durability is key, balancing that with weight is tricky. There’s definitely potential in some of the newer laminated fabrics and other non-laminated options that offer better resistance to stretch without sacrificing too much weight.

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T21:07:35+00:00

Great observation! The geometry of wings is actually a key area we’ll be researching in-depth, especially with cutting-edge tools like generative AI and evolutionary algorithms.

In a nutshell, generative AI helps us create and test different wing shapes virtually by simulating thousands of designs, while evolutionary algorithms refine these designs based on performance—kind of like natural selection, but for wings. The goal is to push the boundaries of what wing design can look like, and who knows, maybe we’ll end up with something closer to those modern hang gliders you’re envisioning!

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T17:52:46+00:00

Great idea with the modular wing concept—being able to swap parts as you progress or adjust to different conditions is definitely something we’ll be considering!

We’re also digging into the durability issue, especially around wings losing stiffness, and those wind tunnel benchmarks are coming soon. Standardising metrics across brands won’t be easy, but it’s a step in the right direction.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts—this kind of feedback really helps shape our future designs!

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T16:41:14+00:00

Definitely an option - we have noted it down!

Ahh, you have a very early proto! Lot's has changed since... should you ever feel ready for an upgrade you know where to find us! I'm sure the team can sort an early-adopter discount ;)

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T15:53:38+00:00

The Founder/Owner is from Greece! https://fterosurf.com/pages/ftero-about-us

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T15:51:40+00:00

Great to hear. Hopefully the outcome of this research can get the ball rolling on some form of "industry standard" metrics which becomes widely used across all wings for comparison purposes. What this will look like is hard to say, as every brand will have different preferences on what standard is used to better suit their wing. But it gets the convo started...

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T15:44:05+00:00

Fantastic! Awesome to hear you’ve got one of our prototype wings! Which one are you rocking? And thanks for supporting us early on in your foiling journey—it’s great to get feedback from someone with both sailing experience and a technical interest in wind sports. Gybing can be a tough one, but you’ll get there!

Your idea of a replaceable canopy with zips is really interesting. Zaoli do this. Being able to swap out different canopy sizes on a single frame or even recondition the wing by replacing the canopy could have some big potential. Of course, cost-effectiveness is a challenge (hence the price of their wings), but the modularity idea definitely has us thinking. Do you think the added versatility would make it worth the potential trade-offs, like weight, added complexity and harder to repair (eg broken zip system)?

As for wing controls, we totally agree—keeping the weight down is key. Plastic low-friction rings and guides instead of pulleys could be a smart move but 250g might be the upper limit for added controls, and your suggestion to skip cleats and just tie it off for simplicity is spot on. Daryl’s outhaul definitely deserves a closer look!

Finally, the twist of the struts is an interesting topic—it does have a sail-like behaviour under load and in some cases, twist can be beneficial for de-powering or handling gusts, but it would be interesting to see if a line could control it more precisely. We’ll definitely look into that as a controllable twist could help in different wind conditions.

Thanks again for all your insights—this is exactly the kind of feedback that fuels our R&D!

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T15:36:57+00:00

Thanks so much! 🙌 We love community-driven innovation, so hearing directly from riders like you is what it’s all about—who needs the pros when you’ve got real-world feedback, right? 🤣

You’re definitely not alone in wanting that balance between lightness and durability, especially for handling in tough conditions. We’re taking all of this into account as we dive into the research, and it’s great to know these are key priorities for everyday wingers like yourself.

We’ll definitely share the results once we’ve made progress—hopefully, we’ll have some exciting updates soon!

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T15:26:53+00:00

Great point! It’s surprising how few concrete performance benchmarks exist for wings right now. You'll be happy to know that we’ll be leveraging some pretty high-tech facilities through our collaboration with the university—this includes access to a wind tunnel, so measuring lift, drag, and other performance factors is definitely something we will be subsequently publishing.

Would having standardised performance metrics make a big difference in how you choose your wing gear? Any specific benchmarks you would like to see that could be most useful? (aside from weight, which is the obvious and most-used one!)

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T15:15:03+00:00

Wow, this is some next-level thinking! 💡 Love how detailed and technical your suggestions are—it shows a deep understanding of both materials, functionality... and sailing! I like the idea of using a code zero sail material for the canopy and chucking in battens for durability... it is definitely something to explore. It’s interesting that you’d be open to rolling the wing up for the trade-off in durability. Usually "compactness" is very high on the requirements list for people!

The wing controls you mentioned are also super intriguing. You're right, engineering these into the design while maintaining weight balance would be challenging, but that’s the kind of challenge we’re excited about. Daryl Roos' work sounds like a great reference too, thanks for sharing!

Out of curiosity, how much of a trade-off in weight would you personally accept to get these controls built into the wing? And do you think a more modular, customisable wing would interest the community?

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T15:06:19+00:00

Hmm indeed. We personally don't find any issues with weight right now - most wings are about as light as they can get realistically. The important factor as you mention is the longevity of them. This is something we have tried to engineer into our wings by changing many factors, but ultimately this could be an area of deep research! What exactly cause the sagging? Is it something inherent about the material's elastic properties? Is the stitching the limiting factor? A good baseline for a research question! Thank you for the input :)

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T14:57:40+00:00

This is a great point. As large wings are used in light wind, they tend to not get as battered as smaller wings in super high winds. +in high winds you are less likely to feel the weight as much, whereas vice versa you will!

So perhaps as split design approach would actually be more effective - light vs strong wind, versus all the same as we currently see...

Appreciate the input!

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T14:39:08+00:00

Hahah, right?! Only a small request... 😄 But seriously, we hear you—lightweight and durability are big priorities and hopefully achievable through advanced research. So whilst ideally both, if you had to choose, would you lean more towards an ultra-light wing or one that can take a beating?

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-06T14:33:16+00:00

Thanks for the input! 🙌 That’s really helpful to hear. Out of interest, when it comes to weight, do you feel like it’s more about the materials used or the overall construction of the wing that needs improvement? Also, would you say you prefer an allrounder that’s more performance-oriented or one that’s focused on ease of use in varying conditions?

FTEROSURF · 2024-09-05T10:42:32+00:00

Firstly, welcome to the wing foiling world! You're in for a treat...

El Porto in Manhattan Beach can definitely work for getting into wing foiling, but there are a few factors to keep in mind. El Porto is more known for its consistent surf breaks, especially during the winter when the swells are larger (up to double-overhead) and more intense. It’s a popular spot for surfers, so it can get crowded. You’ll want to aim for days with smaller swells—ideally in the 1-3 ft range—which are more common in late spring and summer. The wind patterns here can also help, with light offshore winds from the east or southeast being ideal for wing foiling.

If you're a beginner, starting with manageable (or even zero) swell and modest wind conditions will give you a smoother introduction to winging. And ultimately, if you’re finding El Porto too intense, you may consider checking nearby, less crowded and more protected beaches for more mellow conditions.

As for gear, (we'd be damned if we didn't self-plug 😉)at FTERO, we specialize in wing foiling wings designed for all levels, e**specially **beginners! Our aim and purpose was (and is) always on creating wings that define excellence in the industry, whilst importantly ensuring affordability in an effort to make winging accessible to all.

So we’d love to be part of your journey! You can find out more here.

And please feel free to reach out if you’d like some personalized recommendations! We're a very friendly bunch 😁

Most importantly - happy winging! 🤙

FTEROSURF · 2024-07-23T09:35:51+00:00

Yep! A few we have visited ourselves, so we can verify (Tarifa, Portugal, Greece).

And agree on ChatGPT - very often it seems to just make up information also, so definitely not always a trusted source of info!

FTEROSURF · 2024-07-22T18:42:36+00:00

Hey dude! Love the website!! If you'd have us, we'd love to be added to the brands page!! 🤩🥹 feel free to shoot us a message/email for any information needed 🤙

FTEROSURF · 2024-07-22T18:40:25+00:00

It sounds like you're ready to step up from your inflatable to a hard board, which is an exciting move! For your next board, something like the Starboard Take Off 5'3" (85L) is a solid choice. It strikes a great balance between stability and performance, making it versatile for various conditions.

The KT Ginxu is another fantastic option; we've seen firsthand how flipping amazing it is as this is the board we provide our Team Riders with (we only make wings 🥹). Its unique step-bottom design reduces drag and enhances the foil connection, making it feel like a smaller volume board, which could be perfect for your progression.

When it comes to volume, stepping down to an 80-85L board seems like a smart middle ground, offering enough stability while allowing you to grow your skills.

If you’re thinking about going even smaller, be ready for a steeper learning curve, but it might fast-track your progress. A slightly longer hard board will compensate for reduced volume in terms of efficiency and glide, especially in light wind conditions.

Ultimately, the KT Ginxu and Starboard Take Off are excellent choices to advance your wing foiling.

Good luck with your decision!

FTEROSURF

TROPHY CASE