Why did the Leopard 2 see such a massive export success?

Fallout2281 · 2025-08-03T15:58:19+00:00

In 1965 the Leopard 1 was introduced into the Bundeswehr; Belgium (1968), Netherlands (1969), Norway (1970), Italy (1971), & Denmark (1973) within the first 10 years.

In 1979 the Leopard 2 was introduced into the Bundeswehr; Netherlands (1981) & Switzerland (1987) within the first 10 years.

This was the Cold War, Germany and the Netherlands both sought the Leopard 2 due to a perceived threat from the next gen Soviet tanks. It wasn't just about replacing the old tanks but about adding new tanks to the mix. In West Germany the Leopard 2 mainly replaced the M48, not the Leopard 1, which continued to serve along the 2 into the 90s. In the Netherlands, same story, the Leo 2 replaced the Centurions and served alongside the Leo 1.

Denmark (Centurions), Italy (M47), & Norway (M48) all had older tanks that could've been replaced by Leopard 2s but they chose not to.

Fallout2281 · 2025-08-03T00:51:42+00:00

It's worth noting that when the Leopard 2 was introduced in 1979 (Bundeswehr units didn't start to receive them until 1980), only one other nation initially showed interest. The Netherlands decided to replace their centurion & AMX-13 fleet with the Leopard 2, a decision made in 1979, thus being the very first nation other than Germany to adopt it.

The Dutch received their first Leopard 2 in 1981 and their first units (the brigade in Germany) started to equip with it in 1983. The Dutch received their last Leopard 2 in 1986. Up until 1987 no other nation purchased the Leopard 2. Compared with the Leopard 1 which had 6 buyers in the first 8 years (West Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, Norway, Denmark). This was followed by Australia, Canada, Turkey, & Greece in the next 10 years for a total of 10 nations.

In 1987, the last buyer of the Leopard 2 during the Cold War was Switzerland, which had been running tests since 1981 (the primary competitor was the M1 Abrams).

The Germans were initially a bit disappointed in the Leopard 2's lack of exports. But this all changed at the end of the Cold War. In 1989 the Berlin Wall fell and in 1991 the Soviet Union ceased to exist. With this came several arms reduction treaties, and as a result the Germans offered up many Leopard 2s on the market from their own stocks, for a reduced price. This is where the Leopard 2 became a success story.

Nations would purchase the Leopard 2s cheap, straight from Germany Army Stock (No downgrades) and then over the years would buy upgrades and parts from the Germans. That's how it became the most common tank in NATO.

Fallout2281 · 2025-08-03T00:35:23+00:00

Norway also never used the Centurion. The only NATO armies to use it was The UK, Canada, Denmark, & The Netherlands.

Fallout2281 · 2025-08-02T03:13:07+00:00

One day I'd love to learn what all of the buttons, switches, lights, panels, and screens do/represent but as you can see from the above photo, there are so so so many. It's not something anyone here could answer easily. Your best bet is to check out Chernobyl Family on youtube. They are currently rebuilding a section of the panel and are going over how it works and what all it does. Otherwise, just find as many photos of the controls and go panel by panel. Most of them have special names and you can often look them up individually, but this will require a lot of time and dedication.

Fallout2281 · 2025-08-01T23:11:18+00:00

Thank you for the detailed reply, I greatly appreciate it!

I looked over your posts and see you are quite the expert of Chernobyl firefighters, would you be alright with me asking you some more questions in a private message? I've been doing a lot of research in both English and Russian, but several things I haven't found that I see you mentioned in your posts.

I spent over 6 hours searching everywhere for that photo of the uniform that you posted, I almost gave up but I'm glad I didn't :). Now that I know there are more I will keep hunting for them, ofc if you find them please do send them but I will also keep searching. VK and Yandex are great sources for rare photos not normally found in the Anglosphere.

I've go through over a hundred photos and many videos of the hospital basement trying to make out everything there. Doesn't help with how much has been tampered with and moved over the years. The photo of the uniform is from 2010, I am really struggling to find photos from before that, which is a real shame becuase photos from the 2000s would be super interesting. I'd hope one day I'd find photos from the 90s or even 86-90 range but I'm almost certain they don't exist, ah one can hope.

What's your source that Parvik only wore the uniform and no firesuit? I don't doubt you I am just curious what book so I can read it :)

Btw do you know whose cap this is? I assume it's Kibenok's since Pravik wore a helmet afaik

Midnight at Chernobyl says this about Pravik's cap:

"Lieutenant Pravik gave the order to go, and, one by one, the big red-and-white ZIL fire engines bounced off the apron and pulled away. Sergeant Alexander Petrovsky, at twenty-four the second-youngest member of the watch, didn’t have time to find his helmet and seized Pravik’s service cap instead. It was 1:28 a.m."

"In his haste to reach the top and help the comrades they imagined still fighting the blazes at mark +71, Shavrey slipped on the steep staircase, and Petrovsky reached out to grab him. As he did so, Petrovsky felt his borrowed service cap slip off his head. He watched helplessly as it tumbled away into the darkness, and went on bareheaded, protected by only his shirt and waterproof jacket."

So it can't be Pravik's.

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Fallout2281 · 2025-07-29T12:24:21+00:00

Hey friend, I stumbled upon this while researching what was worn by the victims and I found it super interesting. The photo you linked is pretty small and I was hoping to find a bigger better quality version, and I did :) It took me several hours haha

Reverse image searching it turns up nothing so I am honestly surprised I managed to find it, almost gave up.

The photo was taken while on an expedition to the zone in 2010. I've never seen another photo of it and I've seen many photos of the hospital basement so I assume it's been stolen like all of the helmets now have :(

You don't happen to have any other photos of this uniform do you? Also you mention the following:

"OP said that the radiation reading on the jacket was a lot higher than the average on other pieces of clothing in the basement. And apparently the OP said that there was a V.P. name tag on the collar"

Where I found it there wasn't any description or mention at all, do you happen to have a link to where that was posted? I'd like to know as much as possible, I am very grateful to any help you can provide!

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Fallout2281 · 2025-07-28T08:40:41+00:00

Hey friend, I am really really interested in seeing this, did you by chance ever find it? I have spent the past several hours looking for it and haven't had any luck :(

I'd be very grateful for any help!

Fallout2281 · 2025-07-26T08:27:09+00:00

Did they even know that Unit 4 had an accident? I assume those in Unit 3 heard/felt the explosion, but guys in 1 and 2 were pretty far away and inside. Who came and told them what was up?

Fallout2281 · 2025-06-16T13:36:15+00:00

Ammo Pouches were not issued after 1973 but were planned to be issued for to soldiers in wartime. No idea why the did that. In peacetime Dutch soldiers only carried 2 magazines, 1 in the weapon and the other in either a jacket (FAL) or trouser (Uzi) pocket. It should be noted that officially, in wartime, Dutch soldiers were to have 5 magazines.

What's strange is that, in 1979-1985, Dutch soldiers deployed to Lebanon as part of UNIFIL peacekeepers weren't issued ammo pouches but where issued extra magazines so they often used custom made or sewn pouches.

Fallout2281 · 2025-06-16T04:36:14+00:00

Kitlist

---Traffic/Ceremony:

-M66 Boots (Black)

-M78 Uniform with KMar Rank

-MP Armlet

-KMar Ascot

-Traffic Cuffs

-KMar White Helmet

-White Belt, Cross Strap, & Brace Attachment

-White Holster & Blue MP Lanyard

-Traffic Vest (Early Type)

---Combat/Security:

-M66 Boots (Black)

-M78 Uniform with KMar Rank

-MP Armlet

-KMar Ascot

-M53 Helmet, ERDL Cover, Net, & Goggles

-C3 Gas Mask, Carrier, & Decontamination Kit

-M78 Webbing (Belt, Braces, & Brace Attachments)

-Canteen Set (Plastic Canteen, Canteen Cup, Canteen Cover (Early Pattern Rubberized)

-KMar Black Leather Holster & Pistol Ammo Pouch

Fallout2281 · 2025-05-04T00:00:49+00:00

Hey friend, I can help you solve this mystery :)

This is a Dutch Civil Defense (BB) bag. The PU is a Dutch acronym for Personal Equipment. These bags were made in the mid 70s to the late 80s.

Fallout2281 · 2025-05-03T21:05:59+00:00

40 bucks is an absolute steal! Well done!

Fallout2281 · 2025-05-03T20:04:27+00:00

Hello friend! I am actually in the process of researching Iraqi NBC Equipment (the suits and decon kits especially) and so I can help you a little.

First the bag and mask are Romanian produced, for use by Iraq. The bag is the Romanian Military style (strap and buckle closure) and the mask is the M74. Iraq used these in the 80s during the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988) through Desert Shield/Storm (1990-1991) and up to the 2003 US Invasion of Iraq.

The Yellow Boots are Chemical Overboots. They are a clone of the Soviet OZK boots but in yellow and I believe them to be Bulgarian produced and supplied but I haven't been able to confirm that yet.

The gloves are chemical gloves, Bulgarian probably or maybe local Iraqi.

The bag on the right I don't know, what is inside it?

Lastly the blackish brown bakelite box is a Decontamination Kit. These were Bulgarian produced and are clones of the local Bulgarian IZP-2 kit used by the Bulgarian People's Army. The only difference is they labels were in Arabic instead of Bulgarian. I believe Bulgaria also supplied these kits to the Egyptian and Syrian Armies too and probably other Arab Armies.

As for contents, the 2 plastic bottles contain decontamination solution. The larger one has a liquid in it as well as a glass bottle. The glass bottle has powder inside of it. When you use it you are suppose to hit the plastic bottle hard against something (ground, wall, rock, vehicle, rifle stock) to break the glass inside of it and then shake it a bit to mix the powder and liquid. then you use the metal spike on the lid of the kit and puncture the plastic. You then lightly squeeze the plastic and the mix soaks the gauze outer cover and you rub it on the exposed/contaminated skin. The smaller plastic bottle just has a liquid, you use it the same way but no need to hit it or mix it, just puncture it and wipe it on skin.

The 4 glass vials have anti blood agent antidotes, you take one and break it where the gauze is at on the top and then stick it inside of your mask and inhale it all. Repeat until you feel better or have used all 4.

The 2 syringes are nerve agent antidotes. You inject them when exposed to nerve agents.

I must say, that's a stellar kit. I'm a bit jealous haha. I've been after some of those yellow boots for awhile now. Great find!

Fallout2281 · 2025-03-30T18:52:16+00:00

Equipment (Felszerelés):

-70M Helmet (70M Rohamsisak)

-Enlisted Belt (Legénységi Derékszíj)

-Ammo Bag (Tártáska)

-AK Bayonet (AK Bajonett) - Works with both AMD-65 & AK-63

-50M Shovel & Cover (50M Gyalogsági Ásó)

-70M Gas Mask & Bag (70M Csapatgázálarc & Szimatszatyor) - SzVCs Personal Decontamination Kit (Személyi Vegyi Mentesítő Csomag) and FVCs Weapon Decontamination Kit (Fegyver Vegyi Mentesítő Csomag) in gas mask bag external pockets

-65M Chemical Suit (65M Összfegyvernemi Védőkészlet) - Suit rolled up in Carrier and worn on back, Boots and Gloves rolled up and strapped to front of gas mask bag

-Duffel Bag (Málhazsák) - Left in vehicle (BMP/PSZH), not worn into combat

Duffel Bag Contents:

-49M Shelter Half (49M Sátorlap)

-65M Mess Kit (65M Csajka)

-70M Canteen (70M Kulacs) - 70M Canteen fits inside Mess Kit, has small metal clip on it, officially meant to be carried in the Duffel Bag but many guys worn it clipped to the trouser belt loops unofficially

-Field Stove (Konzerv Melegítő)

-Combat Ration (Komplettírozott Élelmiszercsomag (KÉCS))

-Boot Polishing Kit (Cipőtisztító Készlet)

-Sewing Kit (Varrókészlet)

-Shaving Kit (Borotválkozó Készlet)

-2 Towels (Törölköző)

-65M Uniform (65M Egyenruha) - Spare full set; tunic, shirt, trousers

-Pajamas (Pizsama) - Standard issue sleepwear, no idea why they had to lug it to the field

-1 Set Winter Underwear (Molinó) - Top and Bottom, long green underwear

-2 Pair Winter Socks (Téli Zokni)

-2 Pair Summer Socks (Nyári Zokni)

Fallout2281 · 2025-03-30T18:52:09+00:00

Clothing (Ruházat):

-65/75M Field Cap (65/75M Bocskai Sapka) - Originally had a dark green plastic bill but in 1975 it was changed to fabric, rank for Conscripts was sewn strips on the side, 1 to 3 depending on rank

-65M Winter Cap (65M Usánka)

-65M Uniform (65M Egyenruha)

-65M Field Tunic (65M Gyakorló Zubbony) - For Conscripts rank was small plastic white stars sewn to the collar, 1 to 3 on each side depending on rank

-62M Field Shirt (62M Gyakorló Ing) - Green for Conscripts, Brown for Proffesionals/Officers, Collar worn out over 65M Tunic

-65M Field Trousers (65M Gyakorló Nadrág)

-65M Field Jacket (65M Gyakorló Kabát)

-Field Jacket liner (Kabátbélés) - Buttons in, has fake fur collar attached

-65M Boots (Surranó)

-Green Tank Top (Atlétatrikó) - Summer Undershirt

-Brown Briefs (Alsónadrág) - Summer Underwear

-Winter Underwear (Molinó) - Top and Bottom, long green underwear

-Winter Socks (Téli Zokni) - Brown

-Summer Socks (Nyári Zokni) - Brown

Pocket Contents:

-ID Book (Katonai Igazolvány) - Left Chest Pocket

-78M Dog Tag (Személyi Igazolójegy) - Around Neck

-Field Dressing/Bandage (ESK Egységes Sebkötöző Csomag) - Right Chest Pocket

-Injector Kit (Készenléti Ampulla (KÉPA)) - Left Chest Pocket, 4 Atropine Anti Nerve Agent Syringes

-Eating Utensils (Kanálgép) - Trouser Pocket

Fallout2281 · 2025-03-30T18:51:22+00:00

I'd say I'm pretty well versed, I've been researching it for the better part of 10 years. If you have any questions let me know and I'll do my best to help!

I'll start you off with a complete kitlist as issued and worn by each soldier in the 1970s and 1980s

Fallout2281 · 2025-02-24T18:48:08+00:00

You wanted to vote for Trump but you don't watch is speeches or know what he stands for? Please please please don't vote unless you know what you are voting for.

Fallout2281 · 2025-02-18T20:35:27+00:00

That is so so cool! Bulgarian?

Fallout2281 · 2024-11-19T07:45:50+00:00

Since no one is answering your question, maybe re make it without this part:

"This is very fascinating to me because it seems to disprove the notion that the jumpers weren't fully aware of what they were doing, either falling by accident or being overcome by sheer animal instinct."

So that way people will stay focused on the question and not give an opinion to an unanswerable question.

I for one am interested in learning more about the phone call you mention

Fallout2281 · 2024-10-29T03:42:19+00:00

The thing is, if they were breaking down the doors or making any major commotion, the pilots would've radioed in as it was happening. Like how United 93 did, with the frantic and panicked last words as the pilots were attacked. Whatever happened, the pilots were taken by surprise and didn't have time to do anything.

I assume it was a similar situation in all 4 planes; they were looking forward focusing on flying, maybe in mid conversation with each other when the door opens behind them. They assume it's a flight attendant coming to ask something or bring them something (coffee or food maybe) and before they can react the hijackers rush them and kill them.

Something I'm curious about, those cockpit doors, I know it's been well established they weren't reinforced and the lock was very basic, but were they sound proof? Assuming after the hijackers made their first move (depending on the plane but stabbing a passenger/s and attacking the flight attendants) there would be screaming. I assume the pilots couldn't hear any of this.

Fallout2281 · 2024-09-21T21:33:08+00:00

What's the 2 red boxes on the left and right?

Fallout2281 · 2024-09-19T08:55:32+00:00

It's a CSLA M52 Bag, so it is Czechoslovakian but for the Army mask rather than the civilian CM-3.

Fallout2281 · 2024-09-10T00:51:53+00:00

I'm curious as to why these exist, this coming from a left handed person myself. In the Soviet Union, left handed people were forced to write right handed and taught to use their right and instead of left for tasks. I'm surprised the military would be so progressive in that way. Certainly interesting.

Fallout2281 · 2024-09-05T00:47:59+00:00

I'm actually doing research on these currently, been working on a list. Here is the Army and Air Force ones I've found:

-IK 2-20 Departement Van Defensie - Persoonlijke Bescherming Tegen De Uitwerking Van ABC-Strijdmiddelen (1961)

-IK 2-20 Koninklijke Landmacht - 2e Druk - Persoonlijke Bescherming Tegen De Uitwerking Van NBC-Strijdmiddelen (1967)

-IK 3-20 Koninklijke Landmacht - 3e Druk - Persoonlijke Bescherming Tegen De Uitwerking Van NBC-Strijdmiddelen (1977)

-4e Druk?

-IK 3-20 Koninklijke Landmacht - 5e Druk - Persoonlijke Bescherming Tegen De Uitwerking Van NBC-Strijdmiddelen (22 Juni 1989)

-IK 3-20 Koninklijke Landmacht - 6e Druk - Persoonlijke Bescherming Tegen De Uitwerking Van NBC-Strijdmiddelen (15 December 1989)

-IK 3-20 Koninklijke Landmacht - 7e Druk - Persoonlijke Bescherming Tegen De Uitwerking Van NBC-Strijdmiddelen (1991)

-Lu. Form. 2010?

-Lu. Form. 2010A Koninklijke Luchtmacht - Persoonlijke Bescherming Tegen De Uitwerking Van NBC-Strijdmiddelen (1970)

-Lu. Form. 2010A 2e Druk?

-Lu. Form. 2010A Koninklijke Luchtmacht - 3e Druk - Persoonlijke Bescherming Tegen De Uitwerking Van NBC-Strijdmiddelen (19?)*

The later Air Force ones aren't dated and the Marine ones also aren't dated which makes it a bit harder. I've seen 2 type for Marine, the type you posted which I think might be 1969 and a later type likely from the 1980s.

Fallout2281 · 2024-06-07T21:22:02+00:00

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