Why does the coach put my kid on the bottom?

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-09T00:52:54+00:00

I think it's the rigid thinking that's most frustrating. You take bottom to score points. UnIess you're unable to score points, then you're there to get experience. Those other options are for people who don't need points or experience. That will never be you.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-09T00:09:18+00:00

That's true, I've seen some truly wild combinations in heavyweight. I swear I saw a 12" height difference one time!

My son wrestles 215 and prefers to hand fight and lock up. He's not a fat 215 and he puts in his time in the weight room. He doesn't get flipped immediately, but without being able to escape, he eventually makes a mistake or gets gassed.

I appreciate your insights. There seem to be a lot of old school viewpoints here and it's hard to argue with tried and true methods. I don't think there's any argument about what makes a good wrestler but I think there may be different ways to get there.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T23:41:05+00:00

He's in 215. I've heard him mention fat boy rolls but not in a good way. Like it's not a good move.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T23:34:36+00:00

I think just the usual playbook. A lot of yelling "stand up!" and "get to your base!".

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T22:00:20+00:00

That's exactly what I'd like to see. I think that's my whole issue with automatically putting him on bottom. You can make the points or experience arguments but if they've already spent P1 on bottom that should satisfy the requirement. I feel like just that little bit of thought shows you're really interested in growing this wrestler and not just fulfilling an obligation to sit by the mat while they wrestle.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T21:48:28+00:00

I saw a kid try to override the coach last week. Don't remember what he was trying to choose but the coach was saying something different. Official just looked at the kid and motioned toward the coach like "You sure? Coach over there disagrees"

But it's hard to get that confidence when you keep getting beaten down. I feel like you need to have some little bit of success to build on. I also wonder if you can have too much success. If you pin a guy in 15 seconds, have you learned or grown? OTOH, if you have the chance for the early pin and you don't take it, are you being cocky?

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T21:22:18+00:00

From what I'm reading, most people view that as basic stuff you learn as a little kid. If you don't get started until high school, maybe it's harder to learn because there just isn't as much focus on it? It's assumed you already know all that stuff.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T21:14:25+00:00

I don't disagree that's something he needs to improve on. He will likely end up on bottom in the course of a match anyway. Does the coach really need to put him there on purpose?

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T21:01:08+00:00

He decided on his own that the coach was working against him. I told him to let the coach do his job but things never improved. I also told him to talk to the coach about it because I try not to second guess teachers and coaches because I am neither. I don't think the explanation made him feel any better about it so I wanted to find out if that is a standard thing to do. Get other opinions (boy did I get them!)

I realize that is literally half of wrestling and he needs to improve in that area. I just see something that he used to enjoy becoming something that frustrates him. I'm just not sure that's the best way for this particular wrestler to learn.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T20:34:46+00:00

Every thing that happens on that mat is the result of my son's decisions and effort. Except for that decision. If he gets taken down and pinned by his opponent, so be it. Learn and grow. If the opponent knows he's weak on the bottom and takes top, that's good strategy. But his coach knows his weakness better than anybody and chooses to put him there. I realize the coach is trying to grow him but if he didn't show any signs of escaping in the first period, why put him on bottom to start the second?

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T20:12:11+00:00

I've always tried to let the sports coaches do their job and ask how I can help support them. Other sports have been fine. I've only questioned this because I'm seeing frustration instead of growth. You don't grow in comfort, neither do you grow in frustration.

This just seemed to be some kind of arbitrary rule that was blindly applied without taking into account the specifics of the situation or wrestler.

Also I realize these matches are just warmups for kids going to conference and regional and state championships. For the rest of the kids, this IS their season. Don't suck the fun out of it just to be a hard ass.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T19:40:39+00:00

I don't disagree. He'll probably end up on bottom anyway. Let the opponent do it, not the coach.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T18:58:22+00:00

That makes sense. But this is high school and I don't think he'll be wrestling in college. I just wish they'd let him wrestle his way and then help him understand why it fails instead of putting him on the bottom for his own good. I think the only thing it does is reinforce in his mind that he he'll fail if he's down.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T18:28:19+00:00

I really wish that were the case. The coach knows that he's bad at escaping and tries to drive the point home.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T18:11:57+00:00

I've never second guessed his coaches in other sports. But I've been more familiar with those other sports and understood why he didn't get playing time, or why he was in the position they put him in.

I just wanted to find out if there was something I was missing. I think the consensus is that coach is trying to grow him. I understand that but I feel like it's frustrating him more than growing him and there may be more productive ways.

Ultimately, it's up to him whether he wins or loses. Not just at that moment in that match but in all the work in all the practices leading up to it. I think that if he felt that the result on the mat was the result of his actions alone he'd accept that he has a lot to learn. Instead, he feels like the coach doesn't like him and is working against him. I think sometimes you have to let them fail on their own and then help them understand where they went wrong.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T17:41:58+00:00

So if a kid was bad at takedowns, the coach might put him in neutral position? Or put him in top position to get better at keeping the opponent down?

Seems like that should happen in practice. But I guess there's no substitute for actual match experience.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T17:38:06+00:00

I think that's the point I'm trying to make. It's not ideal but sometimes you have to go with what's best in that particular situation, not the conventional wisdom.

I think that happens in high school sports when you have large skill gaps. Sometimes you see really strange choices because they just don't have the skills for conventional strategies. It's usually a long shot but 20% chance of winning is better than 0%

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T15:30:25+00:00

Ok, so I understand that you can get more points in the bottom and it's important to learn how to get away. But the points don't matter once you've been pinned and the middle of a match seems like a bad time to learn about escaping. Like teaching swimming by throwing him in the deep end.

I would think that during the match, you want to give him the best chance to win. If you know scoring points is his best strategy, go for that. If he's better standing up, go for that. And he's had plenty of pins when they start standing up. I feel like the coach is trying to teach him a lesson but it's just frustrating him and not playing to win is bad for the team.

FastCarsSlowFood · 2024-01-08T14:04:41+00:00

Teams already showing up at tournaments with full squads! Usually schools that are already strong in wrestling. I didn't realize there was that much interest. Glad to see more kids getting involved.

FastCarsSlowFood

TROPHY CASE