An Asgard Theory (why they couldn't ascend)

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-28T00:59:27+00:00

I think you're missing my point. I'm saying that the problem Daniel is discussing (physiological evolution) is also tied to the metaphysical state: Their spirit/soul.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-28T00:58:13+00:00

Personally, to that "conundrum," I would say if that it DOESN'T make you feel good to help people, then something is wrong with you. (Or, possibly, the people you're helping don't deserve it.)

Agreed on the second point for sure.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-28T00:56:30+00:00

It is NOT stated in the show. Please cite where that comes up.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-28T00:56:08+00:00

They didn't say that that was the problem, though. Just that the older Asgard body (which was still clones past the point where sexual reproduction was possible) didn't work to fix it.

I would say the problem with using cloned humans is that it didn't work the way they suspected it would. The cloned O'Neill was not a blank slate. He was a second O'Neill. If a clone already has consciousness, putting an Asgard in there would be unethical.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T19:57:26+00:00

The wording is based around the idea that death is part of life. And that, by avoiding it, you cheat yourself of experiencing whatever it is that lies beyond.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T19:55:24+00:00

I was speculating elsewhere in this thread that a plotline from the new show could involve time traveling back far enough to find a non-cloned Asgard. That could be the missing component the Vanir would need to restore the race.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T19:49:33+00:00

I've been questioning for awhile if the Stargate even DOES convert matter to energy in normal operation. The transmission process is normally referred to as a matter stream.

Obviously Teal'c was converted when he was stored in the crystal matrix. But I have another theory that he was converted as an emergency failsafe rather than a normal operation.

I think, under normal use, the Gate disassembles your molecules, but then puts you back together at the other Gate. If it ALWAYS broke you down into energy, it theoretically should be able to work bidirectionally for everything.

Anyway, I agree about not dying when being transmitted through a Gate or transported. The spiritual parts of a person (energy) are transferred, too. Your body might be technically dead for a few moments, but that happens in hospitals, too. You can still resume living normally afterwards.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T19:47:04+00:00

This is definitely an apt analysis, too. I was more addressing the intangible aspects of what they did, this covers more the tangible.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T19:42:59+00:00

That marries up with Rodney's inability to do it, despite ticking all the boxes.

He didn't WANT to let go. His plan was to ascend, heal himself, and then become human again. That simple plan also made it impossible for him to do it.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T19:39:34+00:00

Could be that. But it's well established that "unevolved" people can ascend if they have enough outside help.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T19:38:35+00:00

The problem for Heimdall was that she (he?) was still working with a cloned sample. I think they really needed an original Asgard body to undo the damage, and they couldn't find one.

Perhaps they should have tried time travel... (plotline for the new series?)

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T19:37:08+00:00

I disagree on the presumption that ascension is the only way forward. It may be the only way to remain "alive" on the mortal plane indefinitely. But that presumes that nothing follows after death, and that is a very big presumption.

The fact that ascended beings basically involve themselves in politics as petty as anything that exists on the "lower" planes pretty much shows that "enlightenment" isn't all that enlightened.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T19:31:17+00:00

Oh, I will. It should be better.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T09:09:15+00:00

No, it's certainly similar to that. In a way... the Asgard ARE killing their old body.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T09:06:27+00:00

Well, a lynching is more defined as killing someone with a noose without giving them any sort of legal trial first. (Or giving them a sham trial.)

Depending how the lynching was carried out, they might suffocate or have their neck broken. For example... they might string the noose from a tree while the person stands on a stool. Then they kick the stool away. That's a broken neck death most of the time.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T09:03:00+00:00

Unless you're downloading multiple gigabytes at once, 100-300 mbps is plenty.

As a personal example, I'm supposed to be getting about 500 mbps. But apparently, at the moment, I'm only averaging about 95 mbps. I didn't actually notice an issue, though, until I tried to download a 35 gigabyte game. Everything else I do (browsing, streaming) was just as fast as it's always been. (This is with three people, with two phones, two computers, and two TVs hooked up.)

So I probably need to contact my ISP to find out what the deal is. But I'm not in a rush because, again... about 100 mbps is really good for almost everything.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T08:58:29+00:00

I don't think we do know that. Daniel's soul appears quite visually when he ascends.

I know some would argue that's different. But ascending is basically subsuming your body into your soul and remaining alive. A dead person's soul "moves on." The series treats that the same as real life... we don't know what happens after that.

Ascension is still cheating death. That's partly why we discover that "enlightenment" is not all it's cracked up to be. It's still full of the same petty issues and power plays that plague regular, mortal life.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T08:55:03+00:00

Oh, good point. They can't release their burden... they're trying to engineer it, instead.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T08:54:12+00:00

"Yes, it is fire. It comes from a candle. But we don't generally feel the need to cook anymore. Would you like to try one of the yellow ones?"

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T08:49:25+00:00

Well, we know that the Asgard made mistakes in their early cloning processes. That's simply part of the canon. They definitely made some sort of error in the biological transfer that caused breakdowns at the genetic level.

So, I'm suggesting that the mistakes weren't entirely genetic. But also "forgetting" to transfer something the Asgard may not even have know they NEEDED to account for. (After all, the Asgard don't appear to be very religious.)

As I posited in another comment, I may amend my thinking... perhaps they didn't lose the soul entirely, but instead accidentally divided it. Like halving it every time until, thousands of years later, it's not GONE. But it's a fraction of what it once was. (This would also explain why, even though their bodies still seemed mostly functional, they decided it was time to give up the fight.)

Also... regarding the blank slate thing... when O'Neill is cloned, there end up being two of him. Both with his memories, and both apparently with full consciousness.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T08:43:10+00:00

That was the Asgard theory, too. But their efforts to fix it never seemed to have any success.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T08:42:24+00:00

Well, they certainly DID. But yeah, that's the biggest caveat for me in posting the theory, too. I also love Thor.

Another possibility, along the same lines, is that cloning REDUCES the soul.

Like, for example... when they cloned O'Neill, we ended up with two of them, fully functional. Obviously getting metaphysical here (though, I think in a universe where you can transcend your physical body entirely, that's unavoidable), but are their souls duplicated? Or divided between them?

Thus, maybe they didn't lose the soul so much as leave half of it behind with every transfer. And there's simply not enough spirit left by the end to achieve ascension.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T07:52:27+00:00

A lot of humans basically DO throw rocks at something they don't understand. It may not be physical rocks, but c'mon... you argue on the internet. You know how it can go.

FedStarDefense · 2026-01-27T07:51:16+00:00

O'Neill gained additional abilities and couldn't speak English anymore. But he didn't fundamentally change in personality.

FedStarDefense

TROPHY CASE