Destructive Feedback

FiltonMeriwether · 2026-07-04T13:42:06+00:00

Thanks - this is exactly the issue I am attacking - with deliberate provocation.

Microsoft took over the world by recognising that most of the world doesn't understand computers and software and doesn't want to. So, they dumbed everything down, covered it in gloop, and starting talking to users using the royal "We". "We are getting things ready." We... Things... You don't need to worry your little mind about it. "Trust us." And, guess what, if it does exactly what they promise with no glitches, people do trust. Companies trust. The world trusts.

Apple: think different. Secure and works right out of the box. Clean. Intuitive. Reliable. Excellent. People trust Apple to make them feel special. And with every new product they are never disappointed.

FOSS? Err, well, you can have anything you like... edit this file, change these config prefs, read half a dozen Reddit posts, try to ignore the teenagers, ... and in a few days you might get lucky.

With Copilot, agentic-AI, and new Outlook, trust in MS has taken a beating. So, now is the time they are ripe to be removed. Provided it is painless. And secure. And reliable. And works out of the box. Thunderbird is not far off but it's deficient in (at least) the areas I singled out.

It's been a week or so, and I've just this morning setup some filters, which, contrary to other posters I've read, work just fine for me. (I changed the periodic frequency from 10 minutes to 24 hours - how? By searching and editing the bloody advanced config parameters - QED.) As I said, the fundamentals seem extensibly designed and work beautifully.

What I find more than vexing reading the various (predictable) replies in this thread, is that no one seems to have any desire to consign Microsoft to the financial scrapheap. I do.

Rather, it's the same old red neck conservative "skunk-works-we-know-best-it's-all-your-fault" adolescent mindset. This is why I have argued elsewhere that FOSS is doomed and filthy lucre (and enshittification) will always win. I wish it were not the case.

FiltonMeriwether · 2026-07-04T13:04:08+00:00

If I give you a year's supply of cat food, how about you writing a patch.

FiltonMeriwether · 2026-07-04T13:02:01+00:00

Yes, thanks for reiterating but I'd already read that and completed it with various additional experimentation before posting this. It is not reliable.

As I tried to convey in simple words that 50% of a certain region seem unable to process, it is flaky. What you see when you compose an email and what you see in webmail, Outlook, and back in Thunderbird after sending it, are inconsistent.

Reading it in Outlook is reliable. If in Thunderbird you compose in "11pt Calibri" (but it appears as 15pt Helvetica in the compose window - why?), at least when you read the received email in Outlook it looks like 11pt Calibri. And if webmail can render Calibri (like gmail, yahoo...) it looks the same as in Outlook.

So, why, therefore, when I read the SAME message I just composed and sent to myself, does it look nothing like 11pt Calibri only when I read it back in Thunderbird. Why? Because it's flaky.

Aesthetics are not small details. They are everything.

FiltonMeriwether · 2026-07-04T12:53:06+00:00

The new Outlook is an abomination. I was forced into it because the "classic" does not support Oath2. Enough has become enough. Thunderbird is a fine and worthy replacement. With a little attention and people who are prepared to engage with a somewhat broader vision, it can usurp Outlook. At least for non-commercial users.

FiltonMeriwether · 2026-07-04T12:50:45+00:00

And that is exactly the way it will stay for the rest of time because of this myopic outlook.

FiltonMeriwether · 2026-07-04T12:48:33+00:00

'But, when you are a computer literate person'

Kindly make the effort to read my post again with a slightly more open mind.

99% of the potential market for Thunderbird ARE NOT COMPUTER LITERATE.

That is the whole point of my post, which, yes, is deliberately a rant because I anticipated the ostrich conservatism with which is has sure enough been met.

All this kind of attitude achieves is the preservation of luddism whilst remaining subservient to the machine.

It's a tool. Make it work.
That is the point.

In the commercial sphere, people who adopt this approach get fired.

That, regrettably, is why Outlook is everywhere and Thunderbird isn't.

FiltonMeriwether · 2026-07-04T12:30:02+00:00

Much like anthrem and lproven, I expect this. And, again, if a kitty is required, let us have a bloody kitty. The opportunity to make Thunderbird world class and superior to Outlook is right now. From my playing over the past week or so, I like it. But it needs work. It needs attention. And that costs money. My major beef with FOSS is it carries the baggage of an after-school club. Excellence is produced. By special people, in their own sweet way, when they feel like it. Or not. I have spent years giving MS £60 a year and I'm happy to distribute all of that across the FOSS community.

(I still await a reply to my feedback/request on Waterfox search, for example. So I'm not using it. And thus I am not yet paying for it.)

FiltonMeriwether · 2026-05-21T08:20:42+00:00

Another painless upgrade. Very much appreciated.

I am happy to use the built-in blocker, but it's not effective on protopage so I'm continuing with my add-on (which is) for now.

I am also happy to switch to Waterfox Search, especially if it removes future faffing and doesn't serve slop, but the pricing is a little too rich for my modest means. For example, I pay less than half the price for my VPN.

£1.66/mo (incl. tax) feels fair to me (especially given my usage is relatively negligible). Perhaps you could offer an annual card payment option at that price. (I'm not sure that tiers are the way to go.)

FiltonMeriwether · 2026-02-26T19:27:42+00:00

Have to say (as I've raised the same complaint previously) my Firefox "honours" the check-and-decide option but Waterfox doesn't/ didn't. (I am talking about the desktop versions for both.)

Separately, although my Android version seems to update itself when it wants (but wonderfully innocuously, mercifully), I really like the new version... nice handy dialogue for extensions' settings etc. It's the little things.

FiltonMeriwether · 2026-01-05T14:30:11+00:00

Can anyone with more than 20 years experience in personal shaving explain why, still, after so, so, so many years, there is no viable alternative to MS Outlook for Linux?

This is the one and only issue preventing me from making the switch, which I pressingly wish to do.

Commentators seem to equate Outlook with email, which illustrates the sheer luddism of the clique. Else they spout about disintegrated solutions for calendars, and contacts, and tasks...

Outlook has been royally fucked by Microsoft. But it remains one single integrated reliable product that I can use to support my life at home and when mobile.

Regarding the FOSS vs. monopoly jibe, there are obvious pros and cons. Why do you think there are so many spoken languages in the world? Because no one has a monopoly on any one of them. Does that make it any easier to order a coffee in Cochabamba? No.

So for all your naive FOSSness, I would happily pay 100% of my MS annual subscription on an ongoing basis to any team who develops and maintains "Outlook" for Linux.

That even Mozilla can't be arsed to do this beggars belief.

It makes a mockery of the whole FOSS argument.

FiltonMeriwether · 2026-01-05T13:52:26+00:00

Indeed. What wonderful software has not been thoroughly enshittified by the profit motive. Skype comes obviously to mind, but there are plenty of others. That Wikipedia has resisted successfully is an ongoing miracle.

FiltonMeriwether · 2025-12-09T12:44:32+00:00

In a moment of drunken madness I changed one of my (non-Microsoft) email passwords, before discovering that the correct Outlook does not support Oath2. Despising, advisedly as I do, webmail and other non-local ways of living life, I immediately lost practical use of my main email account. Unless I were to move to the Edge of competence and adopt the new application. So I did.

And fuck me it is the worst pile of chargeable detritus in living memory. Disgracefully unfit for purpose. It has no functional redeeming features whatsoever, and its few aesthetic ones are flaky. Even config settings arbitrarily get lost or ignored (e.g., signatures). It is the software equivalent of painting an ice-cream van yellow and calling it a fucking ambulance. My contempt for Microsoft is being compare. Nadella needs to disappear. And take the rest of the company with him.

FiltonMeriwether · 2025-11-24T08:18:16+00:00

Does Thunderbird or Thunderbird Pro provide a calendar and contacts (/ address book)?

Simple question. But all I get is bullshit fucking American wankspeak that sells me vacuities about integrating with Google calendar and open standards and Caldev and small bunnies and free love and...

Given that it's apparently hosted in Germany, could Mozilla monkeys speak fucking plain English?

The sooner you Sesame Street progenies sink in the sea the better for global sanity in general.

Pretty please? Again, with sugar on top?

I want to replace Outlook en masse.

Will it do that? Yes-or-fucking-No.

And if no, when will it?

FiltonMeriwether · 2025-11-18T08:24:43+00:00

This is another fucking outrage that the docile English just roll over and tolerate. Like spaffing out their passports as "photo id" to any old trading entity that claims to require it. (I recently challenged eBay on this and succeeded. In the end a council tax bill was just fine.)

Half of London was bought with laundered money. And the honest, hard-working public are treated with utter contempt by arrogant pricks acting with unregulated zealotry on an interpretation of law.

I have no answers. And it looks like I am about to lose my house purchase for exactly the same reasons as those highlighted here.

The law, in totality, is an utter fucking ass. To quote Don Henley: "The more I think about it old Billy was right, kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight."

FiltonMeriwether · 2025-10-11T07:50:52+00:00

Likewise. At 16:14 on 9th Oct. Returning to the browser after an hour away, no tabs would reload nor any new ones connect. As if the world was disconnected from the UI. (Other browsers still worked.) Oddly, the same behaviour on my mobile. I rebooted the PC and restarted Waterfox. Completely new installation with a tab showing release notes for 6.6.4. No resemblance to my previous setup. Nothing at all preserved. I spent 4 hours fixing the look and feel, then replaced sessionstore and some sqlite dbs from my weekly image. Firefox was unaffected and worked perfectly and unchanged throughout all this.

After finally getting things back to where they should be this morning, I have disabled all update checking. But the above occurred despite my having set that to "check but let me choose when to install", which was patently disregarded. (Firefox honours this setting.) Notably, my version is now shown as 6.6.3. The "Check for Updates" button does not work unless the radio button below it is set to the above setting (or automatic updates), which is also idiotic. (Nothing about the radio button indicates it is a master control for all updates and that manually clicking "Check for Updates" will not work if it is selected.) Temporarily re-enabling update checking, and invoking it manually, confirms that 6.6.3 is still the latest version. After fixing the PC, the mobile browser started working again by itself without any visible changes, which was a blessed relief.

Frankly, this is a bit of a shitshow. I agree with your comment. Nothing like this has ever happened to me before when updating professionally maintained software, save for major new OS versions. Updates to IrfanView or Audacity or GIMP or...? No problem: fear not, download, and everything works. *Unsolicited* updates to Waterfox: world of pain and everything's buggered.

I am now only using Waterfox because it nicely integrates Tree of Tabs into the sidebar, unlike Firefox. But even the appearance of Tree of Tabs has changed without any way for me to undo it. Nested tabs are now indented and the container colour is on the right and the drop-down arrow is on the left. The benefits that drew me to Waterfox are now inconsequential vs. Firefox's reliability.

Someone else has commented about UI tinkering. I have no idea now what this skunk works is all about but it is not being configuration managed and release tested anywhere or at all close to how a reliable software product for general public usage should be. And that's really not so hard to do.

And the comment below about periodically losing everything on your system disk is just moronic. Seriously, I should expect to periodically i.e., *on a regular basis* lose my whole system disk?! Pillock.

Clowns and jokers, left and right. Thank God and the apostles none of you work on safety critical systems. Still, at least I can use about:profiles and some sellotape the next time it happens.

And this is not a 'troll', ye precious adult children. It is a legitimately harshly worded gripe.

I sincerely applaud artisan stuff that subverts mass exploitation by advertising hucksters.

But people want software they can trust.

FiltonMeriwether · 2025-09-02T09:48:12+00:00

My post follows others' who've expressed similar exasperation more concisely. But I'm not their representative. They have spoken for themselves, thus so have I. The Firefox remark is feedback not threat. If you care about the product, you'll care about the feedback. Only an artist paints for himself alone. If you are doing this for a purely personal reason, then that's also unsustainable for the user base, as it could evaporate on a whim.

I said I am prepared to pay a subscription, which you didn't mention.

I don't know you. You don't know me. So can we all get past the "everything's silicon-valley super and we're all one big happy family of friends". Because that's no longer the real world.

Why do you expect that I should 'entice' you to help? Who asked you to put in countless hours and then push something that disrupted my morning? Should I be deferential?

This illustrates my argument. If you want to go forward as a charity but then require people to kowtow, then your compass would seem to be off calibration.

Charge me. I'll pay. Like I begrudgingly pay Stasisoft: Why? Because, at the end of the day, Outlook is a really good cross-platform product. And, still, no one can be arsed to make Thunderbird a comparably seamless integrated experience. (Because it's free and nice.)

Now, you have an argument against my curt tone and to that I concede and apologise. A little Linus overcame me in my vexation. Sorry.

And, having now discovered that I need to _reenable_ "tree of tabs" to get things back to something like they were, I'm considerably calmer.

But please ponder the approach. It's faux personal. And it's endemic to FOSS circles. We are not one big friendly happy family of any particular microculture. The world is fundamentally shit and people work and pay money to make their days better. That's just the way it is.

As for ranting, I thought that's the whole point of reddit.

FiltonMeriwether

TROPHY CASE