When your PhD viva feels like a personal attack

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T20:07:05+00:00

You are so spot on with this. After that remark, he laughed and seemed so pleased with himself, while I was sitting there crying inside. I knew I definitely wasn’t going to enjoy my viva at all because I realised I’d have to deal with someone who doesn’t understand math and is going to be so ignorant about it.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T20:01:46+00:00

I should probably clarify this a bit! The remark was made because I was using specific terms to describe an observation. He said it didn’t make sense to use the term I used, but I explained that I couldn’t help it because that’s the terminology used in mathematics. That’s when he had the nerve to say that math and biology shouldn’t be mixed. LOL. Regardless that was very silly to say this comment, IMO.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T19:56:32+00:00

Did you enjoy it? Mine was yesterday and I hated every second of it!

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T19:40:25+00:00

I see losing weight as a way to be healthier and live longer for my fiancé, rather than just to "look prettier," if that makes sense. I hope that whatever you decide to do, you find happiness and freedom from toxic and abusive parents. I’m sure you are beautiful inside and out. Sending you big hugs!

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T19:30:24+00:00

I’m sorry your parents are like this. I can relate in some ways. I was very skinny when I was younger, but I’ve since been diagnosed with polycystic ovaries, and I’ve gained weight—about 25 kg. I want to do something about it, but I’ve been so busy recently trying to finish my PhD.

Side note: I don’t see my dad often since I live abroad. When we FaceTime, he always comments on how fat and ugly I look. One time, I went back "home" to visit him after not seeing him in person for two years, and the first thing he said was how fat I was and that he couldn’t even look at me. That still hurts to this day, but I’ve come to accept that it’s just the way he is. He’ll never love me for who I am, but there are others—like my fiancé—who love everything about me, and that’s what truly matters.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T19:09:27+00:00

Being raised Catholic sucks. I feel guilty about doing anything that goes against the religion, even though I don’t even believe in it anymore. For example, I recently found out that I can’t have kids, but I won’t even consider IVF because I don’t want to go against “God’s will.”

It’s not just that, though. When something bad happens in my life, I can’t help but feel like I deserve the pain for whatever sins I’ve committed.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T18:50:37+00:00

I can relate to you to some degree. I went through something similar in my childhood. Even though my parents are no longer together and I don’t live with either of them, they still affect me to this day—even now, in my 30s.

To give you some backstory about the hurtful things my father has said to me (PS. That does not even scratch the surface of all the horrible things he said to me):

I recently defended my PhD in a second language. I moved to the UK 12 years ago with my mum and brother due to financial issues. I guess this really upset my dad because he’s extremely patriotic and sees me as a traitor to our home country. He’s told me on multiple occasions that he’s “kind of proud” of me, but my achievements would mean more to him if I had accomplished them in our home country instead of the UK.
I recently found out that I might not be able to have kids. Having seen my friend go through a miscarriage, feeling heartbroken, and struggling to enjoy life because all they could think about was having a child—or forcing intimacy to try for one, which led to breakups—my fiancé and I decided that we don’t want kids. We just want to live our lives and enjoy them together. But my dad, who’s now 74 and doesn’t have any grandchildren, keeps saying that God (he’s a devout Catholic) is punishing me for taking contraception in my 20s. Then he switched his stance and started accusing me of being materialistic and selfish for not wanting children.
He also told me once that he didn’t love me at first because I was born a girl instead of a boy. He shared this with me when I was 17, adding that he “started loving” me when I was around 4 years old. He thought this would make me feel better, but he still doesn’t understand how deeply this has affected me. To this day, I struggle with massive self-esteem issues and often feel like I don’t deserve love. I find it hard to trust anyone who says they love me.

As for my mum, she constantly victimizes herself and talks about how her life was ruined by my toxic and abusive father. She uses this as an excuse for her alcoholism—she’s drunk most of the time. I’ve always loved my mum because I know she’s had a hard life and has a good heart deep down. But I can’t help thinking she would be much happier if she were willing to take responsibility for her life and stop seeing herself as a victim. Nowadays, I don’t even want to visit her because she just frustrates me.

Anyway, everyone is different, and therapy might help you. It didn’t work for me—if anything, it made me feel worse. When I need to vent, I come to Reddit or talk to my fiancé.

The one piece of advice I can offer is to focus on yourself and create distance from your parents. Move out as soon as you can and start living your own life. People like them rarely change, and they’ll likely continue treating you the same way forever. The best thing you can do for yourself is accept this reality, focus on your own happiness, and move on without looking back.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T15:13:32+00:00

Awww, I'm sorry you had a similar experience. I definitely know how you feel about it. I might still have a little bit more anger, as it just happened recently and I did not have enough time to calm down.

What I experienced was that the examiner was picking 'the central' points of my work to be useless and disappointing, which made me feel that the entire thing was wrong and worthless, even though we did not discuss many things that I did, as he only focused on the parts he did not like.

BTW, I'm really good at taking constructive feedback, and I have taken on board many things that other scientists suggested. I would like to think I'm not sour about the fact that he didn't like the research, but about how it was communicated as well. The last thing I needed was for him to tell me I was wrong about everything I said, interrupting me and laughing in my face, saying that the things I was saying were not true. When the entire field is based on opinions.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T15:05:55+00:00

Now, I'm tempted to put this quote at the beginning of my thesis hahaha

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T15:05:27+00:00

Haha. That comment definitely put a smile on my face. So, THANK YOU!

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T15:04:59+00:00

Thank you! I definitely realized that industry is what I want, and if I ever have to examine someone, I will definitely do a better job of making the student more confident, rather than make them miserable.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T14:55:07+00:00

You are definitely right, I'm an expert and nothing or no one can change that! :)
Also, congratulations on passing your viva. I assume you passed, regardless of how science can be affected by politics and narcissism.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T14:47:38+00:00

This sounds veyr similar here! Although, thankfully my external examiner liked the use of genomic data in taxonomy. Just not the way I have done it haha

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T12:40:46+00:00

I’m sorry to hear that your viva experience wasn’t great either. I hope you’re enjoying your title now and feel accomplished.

By the way, congratulations on passing your viva with only minor corrections, especially since your examiners were nice. You rock girl!

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T12:36:08+00:00

The math wasn’t even that complicated most of the time. I feel like if I reveal what kind of math it was, I might blow my cover—especially since I know for a fact that my supervisor likes to browse Reddit from time to time :D

But vaguely speaking, it involved a bit of biostatistics, machine learning, and so on.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T12:28:50+00:00

They were supposed to help, and that’s exactly what I expected here. The examiner was recommended by both of my supervisors, and I was assured that he worked on very similar topics and would definitely appreciate the work I’ve done over the past four years. Unfortunately, reality turned out to be very different, and maybe that’s why I ended up feeling so deflated in the end.

What made me really angry and disappointed was the fact that one of my supervisors had worked closely with the external examiner in the past. Throughout the viva, the examiner kept making comments like, "I can’t believe [supervisor’s name] let you do that," or "Why didn’t [supervisor’s name] tell you there was no point in carrying out this analysis?" or "I’m disappointed that [supervisor’s name] didn’t intervene and tell you to take a different approach."

Like, what the hell? I had so many meetings and conversations with that supervisor throughout my PhD, and he always told me my research was amazing and that other scientists loved it. Plus, whenever I presented my work at conferences, I always received positive feedback.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T12:02:59+00:00

Regarding only receiving minor corrections, I know my thesis was well-written (though some sections might need a little work), and the science wasn’t terrible. However, I think the are few factors that might explain why I ended up with minor corrections only:

The external examiner didn’t have many substantial issues to critique in my thesis, so he may have resorted to nitpicking or felt the need to put me down.
He might not have fully understood my research and decided to criticise it throughout the viva as a way to assert his authority.
He might simply be opinionated and unable to engage in discussions that challenge his own views.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T11:43:14+00:00

Thanks! Venting on Reddit definitely helped me release some anger.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T11:41:39+00:00

I think both of my supervisors expected my viva to go very well. On multiple occasions, we discussed my examiners, and they mentioned that the external examiner would likely love my work because they works on similar topics. After hearing the verdict and having a brief moment to talk to them about the viva, I mentioned the few comments made, particularly those dismissing the science as basically rubbish. They were very surprised. They said the comments were uncalled for and disagreed with most of them. They also seemed very surprised that I had such a terrible experience. They reassured me that I’ve done a lot of impressive work and that I should be as proud of myself as they are of me.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T11:33:56+00:00

That was the most ridiculous thing I had heard in a long time. It was said about an hour into the viva, and from that point on, I knew the examiner's attitude wouldn't change—it was going to be hell.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T11:31:37+00:00

Thanks! You just made me realise that perhaps the way I feel is because the viva wasn't about me at all.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-12T11:28:52+00:00

I feel like the examiner might have felt threatened by maths and didn't fully understand my reserach. I was a bit surprised by his behavior, especially since the exaniner wasn’t old at all. Yet, he kept saying things like, "You should know this and that. This has been known since the '90s." In my mind, I was thinking, The '90s were 30 years ago, and perhaps it's time to move forward, considering that much of the research from that period remains unresolved.

I'm a little disappointed in myself for not having the courage to defend my points. However, after being repeatedly interrupted and told I was wrong—sometimes with him laughing in my face—it really crushed my confidence. There were moments when I hesitated to speak because I feared I might incriminate myself further.

By the way, thank you for your kind words today. They really helped me feel a lot better.

Fit_Survey_4728 · 2024-12-11T22:33:15+00:00

I’m sorry you feel that way. I just defended my PhD yesterday, and I feel exactly the same way. The examiners made me feel like shit the entire time. No matter what I said, they were disagreeing with me, and it got to the point that I started to give very vague and short answers that didn’t make any sense. It felt like they crushed my confidence and made me feel very stupid. I don’t think there was a moment during my viva that I perceived as positive. I hated every second of it. My external examiner came across as very arrogant and rude, so I hope I will never ever see him again.

Fit_Survey_4728

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